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Raise the Jolly Rogers: The Off-Season

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Old
12-04-2013, 07:31 AM
  #951
Fogel
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Lots of trades and the Yanks signed a few big names.

The two things that stood out to me were 1) the 3 way between the Rays-Dbacks-Reds where the Rays ate some $ to get back some quality which I wish the Pirates would leverage their available cash more and 2) Nats got 2 years of Fister for a B pitching prospect+ which seems like a great deal for them, really stocking up on starters.

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12-04-2013, 01:09 PM
  #952
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Bucs are targeting James Loney for 1B. They also contacting Blue Jays about Adam Lind and Rangers about Mitch Moreland. Both Lind and Moreland are under contract until 2016.

I think Loney is their first choice. He would be a good fit for us especially in PNC Park (he's a lefty) and he's a very good defensive 1B.

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12-04-2013, 01:16 PM
  #953
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loney is certainly a polarizing figure amongst the bucco blogosphere

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12-04-2013, 01:21 PM
  #954
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Which I just don't understand. Loney profiles greatly at PNC and he's the type of batter the Pirates need. I shouldn't need to re-tread my pro-Loney argument again.

That or those bloggers are convinced that 2012 was the truth and not the anomaly.

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12-04-2013, 02:06 PM
  #955
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Yeah I'd be thrilled with Loney.

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12-04-2013, 02:20 PM
  #956
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https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/statu...23157485813760

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 7m
Source: James Loney started offseason seeking a four-year, $40M deal. Belief is he’s now seeking something in the three-year, $27-30M range.

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12-04-2013, 02:24 PM
  #957
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How is Loneys Defense? I've read that it is very good, which i think makes him a better fit given some of our pitching staff (Morton, Locke)

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12-04-2013, 02:26 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by bradshaw06 View Post
How is Loneys Defense? I've read that it is very good, which i think makes him a better fit given some of our pitching staff (Morton, Locke)
His glove is good to great.

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12-04-2013, 02:39 PM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/statu...23157485813760

Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan 7m
Source: James Loney started offseason seeking a four-year, $40M deal. Belief is he’s now seeking something in the three-year, $27-30M range.
4 years is too many for a player of Loney's caliber, but I'd give him 3 years without balking, even on the high-end of that given the market being what it is.

His defense is on the high end of first basemen, but not elite.

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12-04-2013, 04:25 PM
  #960
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I'll be ecstatic if Bucs give him 3 year contract. He will be 30 next May.

Ellsbury just got 7 year contract which is way too long especially he's injury prone. He will be 38 when his contract expires.

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12-04-2013, 07:04 PM
  #961
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I just don't get the euphoria over him (Loney), especially at his asking price. That is a whole lot of money for the Bucs, even with their new found revenue. I don't see that much more appealing out of Loney at that kind of money and some sort of platoon based on Sanchez and Lambo. The end result is you'll get roughly equal offensive production at a significant discount but might suffer a bit on defense but at a position where it's not of the top importance.

Getting a mid 700's OPS out of a 1B AND paying them about 9 mill a year to do that just doesnt make me jump for joy.

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12-04-2013, 07:38 PM
  #962
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Loney isn't going to make anyone ecstatic, but he would make the team better and no one else that is similar in value is going to come at a better price. Even if Napoli chooses us over Boston (he won't), he'd cost nearly double what Loney would financially and our first round pick (way to rob from the poor and give to the rich, MLB).

As for Lambo. I'll be shocked if he's anything better than a pinch hitter in this league. I'm glad he's in the conversation, but I'll be damned if I want to see this team go into yet another season with the primary first baseman being retread prospect. I don't want any more Jeff Clements at first base, I want Major League talent...and we're not going to get anyone better than Loney. If he goes elsewhere then we're stuck trading for someone like Adam Lind, who's going to cost just about as much to pay, cost an asset or two to acquire, and comes with consistency issues. We'd essentially be trading for Garrett Jones.

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12-04-2013, 08:05 PM
  #963
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http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...edium=facebook

According to Jeff Passan the Pirates are one of 7 teams that are interested in acquiring David Price.

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12-04-2013, 08:09 PM
  #964
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Of course 'interest' literally means that they've made a phone call about him...I highly doubt it goes beyond that stage.

I know Huntington plans on bringing in another pitcher, be it Burnett or otherwise, but Price would be overkill given the team's needs.

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12-04-2013, 08:21 PM
  #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
I just don't get the euphoria over him (Loney), especially at his asking price. That is a whole lot of money for the Bucs, even with their new found revenue. I don't see that much more appealing out of Loney at that kind of money and some sort of platoon based on Sanchez and Lambo. The end result is you'll get roughly equal offensive production at a significant discount but might suffer a bit on defense but at a position where it's not of the top importance.

Getting a mid 700's OPS out of a 1B AND paying them about 9 mill a year to do that just doesnt make me jump for joy.
1st base is now a buyers market - no way Loney gets 3/27.

2/14 with an option and 1mil buyout ought to do it, and that's a reasonable move for the Bucs. Hope they pull the trigger soon.

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12-04-2013, 08:23 PM
  #966
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Yeah, Rays probably want at least 3 of our top prospects for Price. Not going to happen.

As for Loney, there isn't a better option for 1B than him for Bucs. I don't want Lind or Moreland because we would have to give up a good prospect. We really need to improve on 1B.

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12-04-2013, 10:30 PM
  #967
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I'd be fine with Loney, even at three years for too much money. There aren't other suitable options unless a trade is made.

As for Price, it would be a shocker, but I'd definitely be ok with trading Taillon and other pieces that aren't named Polanco. Price, Liriano, Cole would be sick, and the Pirates are in the process of trying to go from a playoff team to a team that can go deep into the playoffs. Elite pitching is a proven way to do that, but obviously the Rays are going to command a ton if it does happen.

I don't think we'll have Liriano around after this year, so we'd have to bank on Taillon hitting his potential rapidly (which certainly could happen), and then we'd be in a similar kind of situation in terms of two top quality pitchers, but needing a third to really scare teams in playoff series'.

It's definitely under the "not happening" umbrella, but for me, if there were concrete talks somehow, I would at least be listening if it meant that we wouldn't have to completely liquidate and send Taillon, Polanco, and Glasnow or something. Taillon, Hanson, Kingham, and Bell/McGuire/Meadows would be incredibly steep, and in the long run the opposite type of trade the Pirates need to make, but keeping both Polanco and Glasnow would still keep a pipeline moving with the need to have a very good draft next year. I'm moreso just thinking out loud here, rather than proposing anything. Price for two years would give them a legit chance to get to the World Series, with the added bonus that if we did manage to win next year, we could still flip him for some return next offseason. But 4 top-ten prospects would set back the system several years...however if we were keeping Polanco and one of Taillon/Glasnow, I'd be pretty tempted to do it.

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12-04-2013, 10:36 PM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oxide View Post
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/1...edium=facebook

According to Jeff Passan the Pirates are one of 7 teams that are interested in acquiring David Price.
LMFAO. Acquiring Price would be such an anti-Pirate move. Can't see them doing it or giving up what TB would want.

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12-04-2013, 10:46 PM
  #969
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Yeah, I saw on KDKA news that a Pirates source debunked the Price rumors. Not happening. Not even in discussions for him according to the report that was on the news.

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12-05-2013, 02:00 AM
  #970
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Yeah, I saw on KDKA news that a Pirates source debunked the Price rumors. Not happening. Not even in discussions for him according to the report that was on the news.
You knew that report was screwy when you saw the teams supposedly interested were 6 big markets, and Pittsburgh.

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12-05-2013, 02:40 AM
  #971
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You knew that report was screwy when you saw the teams supposedly interested were 6 big markets, and Pittsburgh.
Move what you would have to give up to get him aside. Anyone with sense knew that it was never going to happen. He will make north of $13 million in arbitration this year, and much more in a couple years as a FA.

Payroll for the past ten years in comparison to the rest of the league:

2013: 4th from bottom.
2012: 3rd from bottom.
2011: 4th from bottom.
2010: bottom.
2009: 3rd from bottom.
2008: 4th from bottom.
2007: 4th from bottom.
2006: 4th from bottom.
2005: 3rd from bottom.
2004: 3rd from bottom.

They will make some signings, but do not look for them to add much to payroll, like a move such as that would do, especially if they planned to keep him more than a couple of seasons.

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12-05-2013, 07:02 AM
  #972
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Loney isn't going to make anyone ecstatic, but he would make the team better and no one else that is similar in value is going to come at a better price. Even if Napoli chooses us over Boston (he won't), he'd cost nearly double what Loney would financially and our first round pick (way to rob from the poor and give to the rich, MLB).

As for Lambo. I'll be shocked if he's anything better than a pinch hitter in this league. I'm glad he's in the conversation, but I'll be damned if I want to see this team go into yet another season with the primary first baseman being retread prospect. I don't want any more Jeff Clements at first base, I want Major League talent...and we're not going to get anyone better than Loney. If he goes elsewhere then we're stuck trading for someone like Adam Lind, who's going to cost just about as much to pay, cost an asset or two to acquire, and comes with consistency issues. We'd essentially be trading for Garrett Jones.
I don't want them trading for Lind either, if given those two options I'd rather them overpay Loney. But, Sanchez hit lefties extremely well last year and it flew under the radar. Lambo could effectively fill in the other portion of that platoon and the combined production of both could be extremely similar to the total production one would get out of Loney alone. It would come at a significant cost reduction as well.

I prefer the team use it's money not to splurge on middling free agents but to retain its own talent, something the Pirates were not able to do in the past due to economic reasons. We got a lot of good young players on the team and they're going to require their paydays soon, we might as well start devoting that money to the elephant in the room.

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12-05-2013, 07:49 AM
  #973
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I'm sorry but I have zero confidence in Lambo.

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12-05-2013, 07:51 AM
  #974
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The Yankees are simply disgusting

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12-05-2013, 07:57 AM
  #975
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Lambo is not a long term solution. He's a #4 corner OF in the bigs. The RF job is Tabata's to lose in spring training. Snider was tendered and he'll be back (and out of options btw). The key is obviously Polanco. I don't see much power from him carrying over to the bigs, but he projects as a very good #2 hitter (high OBP, low K rate).

Marte
Polanco
Cutch

That could be downright disgusting in another year or so depending on GP's development.

We'll go external for a 1B IMO. There are no internal solutions. Sanchez is a player vs lefties but i expect Loney will end up here for around 25M over 3 years. The only other guy i see is Lind from Toronto and he'd be quite good as well so long as we only have to give up a mid level prospect. Lind is under team control through 2016 for 7 and 8M per. He's got a superior bat to Loney but defense is slightly below average.

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