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Game #2 : Kings @ Jets - 10/4/13 - 3-5L

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Old
10-05-2013, 05:14 PM
  #126
Richie10
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Originally Posted by CowMix View Post
On the bright side of losing last night hopefully they've learned they can't coast every game and win by only trying at the end.
That's isn't what happened, though. We dominated the first and couldn't pad a lead. After that they made adjustments and completely exposed our slow D.

Say what you want about Muzzin and his hockey IQ, but at least he has the wheels to not get beat in a footrace 9 times out of 10. The problem is when you pair him with an equally dumb defenseman like Greene who can't cover for his mistakes.

Muzzin is easily misused with the wrong D partner. He either needs a highly mobile number one to carry the load so he can play support (like Doughty) or a hyper aware, positionally perfect SHD like Scuderi or prime Mitchell.

We're spinning our wheels with Muzzin paired with a guy like Greene, which is why that pairing has been a defensive disaster at ES. Either utilize Muzzin correctly or don't play him.

Regehr will be traded before his contract is up - mark my words. He's almost done in this league. He reminds me of Smyth during his last days here.

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10-05-2013, 05:27 PM
  #127
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Sounds like the love affair between Sutter and Kings fans may end sooner rather than later.
Not likely anytime soon. We have too many posters on here brainwashed by Sutter unfortunately.

Besides, while our team is far from perfect, Lombardi has done an excellent job of acquiring and developing players, and therefore, we're going to succeed, regardless of who's coaching.

That being said, I will go on record as saying that Sutter is probably the best kings' coach I've seen in my 40 years as a fan. However, I strongly disagree with his love for grinders over skilled players.

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10-05-2013, 05:32 PM
  #128
Brad Doty
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
That's isn't what happened, though. We dominated the first and couldn't pad a lead. After that they made adjustments and completely exposed our slow D.
I do agree that we're talking about a whole different ballgame if we finished some of our early chances. WPG couldn't do much except counterpunch/play pond hockey for the first. But again, I want to point out that it was a back to back, and i'm not shocked we slowed down as the game went on.

But I agree--two games in a row now where the other team adjusted and took over.

Also, I think we will start loving Sutter hockey again when we actually have a lead, heh. It's not real conducive to playing from behind frequently (I also think we're trying to be too cute/not enough driving to the net to get greasy so far).

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10-05-2013, 06:05 PM
  #129
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Not likely anytime soon. We have too many posters on here brainwashed by Sutter unfortunately.

Besides, while our team is far from perfect, Lombardi has done an excellent job of acquiring and developing players, and therefore, we're going to succeed, regardless of who's coaching.

That being said, I will go on record as saying that Sutter is probably the best kings' coach I've seen in my 40 years as a fan. However, I strongly disagree with his love for grinders over skilled players.
This is too true. He's a great coach during games but his game preparations and player use is really poor. I know a lot here think Sutter is perfect though.

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10-05-2013, 06:28 PM
  #130
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While i disagree with a lot of the lines that Sutter plays, he has a great system that everyone buys into and the players seem to love him, so getting rid of him would be a mistake

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10-05-2013, 06:35 PM
  #131
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
This is too true. He's a great coach during games but his game preparations and player use is really poor. I know a lot here think Sutter is perfect though.

I don't think Sutter is perfect; but I do know that he has way more knowledge about Hockey than a guy on a forum like me.

He coaches my favorite team, they hired him. So I trust the guy.

The players play hard for him, (majority of the time) that's what counts.

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10-05-2013, 06:38 PM
  #132
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10-05-2013, 06:46 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Richie10 View Post
Muzzin is easily misused with the wrong D partner. He either needs a highly mobile number one to carry the load so he can play support (like Doughty) or a hyper aware, positionally perfect SHD like Scuderi or prime Mitchell.

We're spinning our wheels with Muzzin paired with a guy like Greene, which is why that pairing has been a defensive disaster at ES. Either utilize Muzzin correctly or don't play him.

Regehr will be traded before his contract is up - mark my words. He's almost done in this league. He reminds me of Smyth during his last days here.
To be fair, pretty much anyone with scoring touch can play with a Doughty or a guy like Scuderi/Mitchell and look good. It has little to do with using Muzzin correctly, because Muzzin just isn't that versatile of a player yet. A player shouldn't have to be paired with a top pairing guy to produce.

The problem with playing Muzzin with Doughty is that he doesn't play support. Drew had to cover him time and time again last year and his numbers suffered greatly. Look at Drew's numbers at the first 3/4 of the year then after Regher was acquired and he was paired with him, they were absolute night and day. His PPG doubled.

Muzzin is going to get better, he's just not there yet and needs to watch for a while. He's a -4 through 2 games so far, that's pretty ridiculous considering he is 5th in ES TOI among defensmen.

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10-05-2013, 08:39 PM
  #134
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its actually the complete opposite fishhead

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...3&sit=5v5close

Regehr is by far the worst partner for Doughty, whereas he played best with Muzzin if you look at the corsi percentage of his partners when on the ice with them

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10-05-2013, 09:34 PM
  #135
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I think the frustrations of last season are still fresh and have carried over onto the first two games of the season, and for good reason as we are seeing similar patterns in the lack of puck possession by the team thus far. We've seen it in some spurts and it has been limited to single periods, but opening the first two games on the road in a back-to-back where the Kings are the visitors for teams who had their home openers against them isn't putting them in an advantageous situation, but that's how it goes in sports.

I would expect a different team to show up at home with more vim and vigor. In the second game of a back-to-back, the Kings appeared to exert most of their energy in the 1st and you could see the intensity and aggressiveness tail off as the game progressed. Dustin Brown looks rusty. About 80% of the defensemen seem rusty. It isn't just the bottom six but the top line isn't doing much with the puck and their play away from the puck hasn't been all that great either considering the number of shots and scoring chances the team has given up. But hey, look at how slow the team started last season and picked things up after the first couple of weeks in. I guess better to start slow and finish strong than to start on fire and tail off at the end.

I share the same frustrations most of you do with the bottom six players and underperforming defensemen, but I'm also willing to see how things play out after some time passes to fairly assess how things are progressing (or declining). You can't really say any single player has looked great in both games. Doughty has had his moments of brilliance and has also looked pedestrian on some shifts. Quick was stellar in game one and struggled in game two. Same with Kopitar and Williams and Carter and Richards. You're never going to get 100% consistent performances from everyone on the roster, and I think we did get that during the Cup run which kind of spoiled people's expectations a bit.

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10-05-2013, 09:46 PM
  #136
Buddy The Elf
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I'd really like to see Carter and Richards center the 2nd and 3rd lines. You can do that and dump off Carcillo or Fraser in favor of one of the young guys in Manchester and give the bottom lines a whole new look. I'd just like to see the shift at center first. I know there is a split crowd on centering both Richards and carter but it is worth trying out for a few games. I do agree that we lack any offensive production on those lines but that is also putting a magnifying glass on something that isn't the reason for the results in the first two games. I'm merely commenting on this because it is being discussed. Oh and I said this in the playoffs last year and reiterated it n the summer but Martinez for all his weakness provides an ability to skate the puck out of the zone and make tape to tape passes out of the defensive zone. That is something that has been a glaring problem in the first two games and something the kings struggled with early in the St. Louis series during the playoffs last year. When Martinez was slotted in the line up I really feel that changed and so did the results in The game. At any rate, it is way too early to be to be carrying pitchforks for individual players. Also, while I don't agree with sutter's decision to start quick back to back, I still felt he played well except for that crap goal in the beginning. The defense hung him out to dry. And one positive from last night, did anyone catch scrivens giving the guys a pep talk when they came to the bench after some good pp opportunities? I thought that was cool... Seems like a guy who is cool with his role and happy to be here.

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10-05-2013, 09:57 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Muzzinga View Post
its actually the complete opposite fishhead

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...3&sit=5v5close

Regehr is by far the worst partner for Doughty, whereas he played best with Muzzin if you look at the corsi percentage of his partners when on the ice with them
Corsi is a fine stat, especially for teams, but it doesn't tell you everything about individuals. It's just one metric. It simply tells you about shot numbers, and doesn't take into account the quality of those chances. As soon as DD was paired with a decent SAH type, he scored 8 points in 12 games. It was plain to see that he was far more comfortable jumping into the play, and as a result his offense was far better.

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10-05-2013, 10:12 PM
  #138
The Black1963
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Some of you guys put way too much emphasis on stats. Stats are just too black and white, and unfortunately, there are too many intangibles that just don't show up on stats.

Just keep it simple and watch the game.

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10-05-2013, 10:21 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Some of you guys put way too much emphasis on stats. Stats are just too black and white, and unfortunately, there are too many intangibles that just don't show up on stats.

Just keep it simple and watch the game.
Yep, the eyeball test comes above all else.

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10-05-2013, 10:31 PM
  #140
Brad Doty
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I'd really like to see Carter and Richards center the 2nd and 3rd lines. You can do that and dump off Carcillo or Fraser in favor of one of the young guys in Manchester and give the bottom lines a whole new look. I'd just like to see the shift at center first. I know there is a split crowd on centering both Richards and carter but it is worth trying out for a few games. I do agree that we lack any offensive production on those lines but that is also putting a magnifying glass on something that isn't the reason for the results in the first two games. I'm merely commenting on this because it is being discussed. Oh and I said this in the playoffs last year and reiterated it n the summer but Martinez for all his weakness provides an ability to skate the puck out of the zone and make tape to tape passes out of the defensive zone. That is something that has been a glaring problem in the first two games and something the kings struggled with early in the St. Louis series during the playoffs last year. When Martinez was slotted in the line up I really feel that changed and so did the results in The game. At any rate, it is way too early to be to be carrying pitchforks for individual players. Also, while I don't agree with sutter's decision to start quick back to back, I still felt he played well except for that crap goal in the beginning. The defense hung him out to dry. And one positive from last night, did anyone catch scrivens giving the guys a pep talk when they came to the bench after some good pp opportunities? I thought that was cool... Seems like a guy who is cool with his role and happy to be here.
I've felt that way for a long time, though I think that's a change we make if things aren't clicking 10 games in. It changes the whole dynamic fo the team

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10-05-2013, 10:40 PM
  #141
Ziggy Stardust
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I've felt that way for a long time, though I think that's a change we make if things aren't clicking 10 games in. It changes the whole dynamic fo the team
For that to happen, I think the team would have to call up Toffoli and jettison a defenseman in order for it to work. I would think the lineup in that case may look something like:

Brown-Kopitar-Williams
King-Carter-Toffoli
Frattin-Richards-Lewis
Clifford-Stoll-Nolan
Carcillo
Fraser

Regehr-Doughty
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-Greene
Muzzin

Quick-Scrivens

I'd say the Kings would be better suited if they found a spot for Pearson as the #2 LW (he'd be a huge upgrade over whatever options they have now). If Vey or Shore are ready for the NHL, they're going to be stuck on the fourth line as well. So there are lots of moving parts you have to take into consideration for the present and future when making these types of adjustments.

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10-06-2013, 12:03 AM
  #142
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I think everybody now agrees with me when I called Regher "Viagra" He is a warrior but he cannot play anymore and should just be put on waivers and maybe someone like Edmonton will pick him up.

Muzzin/Doughty
Mitchell/Voynov
Martinez/Greene

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10-06-2013, 12:05 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Sounds like the love affair between Sutter and Kings fans may end sooner rather than later.
He doesn't like to cuddle

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10-06-2013, 01:06 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
I think everybody now agrees with me when I called Regher "Viagra" He is a warrior but he cannot play anymore and should just be put on waivers and maybe someone like Edmonton will pick him up.

Muzzin/Doughty
Mitchell/Voynov
Martinez/Greene
No, Regehr should not be put on waivers

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10-06-2013, 01:28 AM
  #145
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We wouldn't be able to keep up with Hawks again the same reason they beat us in the playoffs, good defense and talented 4 lines

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10-06-2013, 01:55 AM
  #146
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Don't worry, Chicago might not even make it in or at best at a low seed if current trends continue.

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10-06-2013, 04:02 AM
  #147
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Don't worry, Chicago might not even make it in or at best at a low seed if current trends continue.
Lol great avatar man.

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10-06-2013, 04:41 AM
  #148
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Lol great avatar man.
All credit goes to Razz. I just claimed it. :3

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10-06-2013, 08:14 AM
  #149
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That's isn't what happened, though. We dominated the first and couldn't pad a lead.......
.....in the 2nd of back-to-back games. Unwise, as all our energy was spent in the 1st period. Like I said before, we worked harder, but the Jets worked smarter.

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10-06-2013, 08:55 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Sounds like the love affair between Sutter and Kings fans may end sooner rather than later.
true. which is strange, considering in the 2 years he's coached the Kings, he's got a ring (speaks for itself) and got us to the conference finals (something we've only done once in the history of our franchise).

im not in the country, so can't watch the games, but there seems to be a lot of bickering over who to play in the bottom rung players. it'd really surprise me if these players were the make/break of our team.

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