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Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 2 Pens vs. Sabres

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:34 PM
  #126
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Realistically they should break up the top PP into two separate entities. They finally have the personnel to do it with too.
True, but Geno and Sid like playing with one another too much. I'm not too torn up if it never happens, even if it's a pretty good idea.

Bennett, Crosby, Malkin, Neal, and Letang/Pouliot would be magnificent. I mean, we know how much freaking Sullivan added with his RH shot, and he's no BB. But we keep shoehorning Kunitz and now Jokinen in there. Frustrating.

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No, for the same reason you can't play Bennett with Malkin unless you've got no choice, you can't play him on the #1 PP. His play might make it impossible not to keep him there.
It seems like they're purposely trying to limit his opportunities until they can get him to sign a 2nd contract, haha.

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10-05-2013, 10:35 PM
  #127
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This team is so different from previous years. None of that "go north" stuff. We're actually methodical in our breakouts and supporting the puck. Our D is allowed to reverse. Using the middle of the ice really well in the neutral zone. I love the touch passes to streaking forwards too... It has Jacques Martin written all over it and I'm thrilled.

Niskanen had some poor turnovers and Martin limp-wristed a few clearing attempts.

Vitale and Jeffrey were killing penalties and looking good at it too. Vitale tipped some passes with his stick and Jeffrey turned a 1-on-2 into a scoring chance that was probably better than anything the Sabres had all night.
And it's extremely encouraging. I'm looking forward to this year. It feels like we're a fourth line and a few tweaks away from making a real run.

Unfortuntely, those few tweaks seem incredibly unlikely to occur without something forcing Bylsma's hand.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:35 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Realistically they should break up the top PP into two separate entities. They finally have the personnel to do it with too.

Having Crosby and Malkin both out there seems to just muddy the waters too much. Too many chiefs and too few indians.
Yes, but having Bennett out there opens up the entire ice. Frankly, with a healthy Neal, the guy who shouldn't be on a PP with Sid and Geno is Kunitz.

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10-05-2013, 10:35 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I don't pretend to know what they are thinking anymore.

I thought Morrow was untouchable until one day in late March when I was sitting outside a DQ about to smash my iPhone off a wall.
Morrow was getting benched or having his ice time severely limited in WBS though, so something was obviously up.

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10-05-2013, 10:36 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
True, but Geno and Sid like playing with one another too much. I'm not too torn up if it never happens, even if it's a pretty good idea.

Bennett, Crosby, Malkin, Neal, and Letang/Pouliot would be magnificent. I mean, we know how much freaking Sullivan added with his RH shot, and he's no BB. But we keep shoehorning Kunitz and now Jokinen in there. Frustrating.



It seems like they're purposely trying to limit his opportunities until they can get him to sign a 2nd contract, haha.
#12 and #13

Funny, I move half way across the world, and we start seeing things similarly. One of us needs Fleury's shrink.

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10-05-2013, 10:38 PM
  #131
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And it's extremely encouraging. I'm looking forward to this year. It feels like we're a fourth line and a few tweaks away from making a real run.

Unfortuntely, those few tweaks seem incredibly unlikely to occur without something forcing Bylsma's hand.
We need Bennett in the top six and a cup caliber first line too (note, I said first line . . . not a shot at Sid).

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10-05-2013, 10:40 PM
  #132
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What's sad is I remember the Pens playing against Sutter. His entire job was to cover Geno. He absolutely blanketed him. Mugged, hooked, held, bit . . . did whatever you'd expect a Sutter to do to get the job done. THAT is the Sutter who I thought the Pens were getting. It's not the one they got.
I can't say I remember that, but that's not a huge surprise.
Maybe he just doesn't work in this system or with this role on the team? Decided he was going to be more gentlemanly, it's a reffing thing, Bylsma or someone spoke to him? IDK, it's not good.

I think the biggest problem, and it showed in the playoffs, is that Sutter doesn't have enough muscle. If he won't put it on, screw him. If he can't put it on, I think someone talked about an interview where he said he couldn't put weight on, then I think he's got to be done here. Not being able to put on muscle would essentially be his ceiling, regardless of potential.

He also looks like an insomniac/stoner, which might explain a bit.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:41 PM
  #133
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That Vanek goal was ridiculous. I want that guy here so bad.
Maybe he will make it to July 1 then sign here. Malkin has Neal while Crosby has Vanek. Worlds just not FAIR! We will have the cap space for him, especially if Fleury does not change and we buy him out.

Vanek-Crosby-BB
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
JJ-Sutter-Dupuis

Killer offense, killer D with Martin controlling them.

Knowing Bylsma it will be

KCD
Vanek-Malkin-Neal
JJ-Sutter-Kobasew? if he inks more years.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:44 PM
  #134
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Morrow was getting benched or having his ice time severely limited in WBS though, so something was obviously up.
He was starting to turn it around though, but since Maatta is in the NHL right now and Despres is eternally in the doghouse, I should probably prepare myself.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:44 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Maybe he will make it to July 1 then sign here. Malkin has Neal while Crosby has Vanek. Worlds just not FAIR! We will have the cap space for him, especially if Fleury does not change and we buy him out.

Vanek-Crosby-BB
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
JJ-Sutter-Dupuis

Killer offense, killer D with Martin controlling them.

Knowing Bylsma it will be

KCD
Vanek-Malkin-Neal
JJ-Sutter-Kobasew? if he inks more years.
KIRK's been drinking

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:45 PM
  #136
vabm8
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We need Bennett in the top six and a cup caliber first line too (note, I said first line . . . not a shot at Sid).
We could do that, but then Dupuis' feelings would be hurt and Bylsma would have broken a promise to Dupuis. That only happens to rookies.

What this team needs more than anything is for the lines to be done properly, until that happens the roster is a fairly moot point.

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10-05-2013, 10:46 PM
  #137
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KIRK's been drinking
Sorry about that, he typed for a sec there. He's here drinking. The real me wants Lundqvist.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:46 PM
  #138
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I can't say I remember that, but that's not a huge surprise.
Maybe he just doesn't work in this system or with this role on the team? Decided he was going to be more gentlemanly, it's a reffing thing, Bylsma or someone spoke to him? IDK, it's not good.

I think the biggest problem, and it showed in the playoffs, is that Sutter doesn't have enough muscle.
If he won't put it on, screw him. If he can't put it on, I think someone talked about an interview where he said he couldn't put weight on, then I think he's got to be done here. Not being able to put on muscle would essentially be his ceiling, regardless of potential.

He also looks like an insomniac/stoner, which might explain a bit.
That's why I referenced his time against Geno when he was with the Canes. Muscle didn't prevent him from doing a great job. No, sad and odd as it sounds, I wonder if what he really lacks is that Sutter tenacity. You look at his dad, still looks like a guy who scares the **** out of you. Probably would play a pick up game against 10 year olds that way. The apple, I'm afraid, fell far from the tree in that regard. It's not that I think he doesn't care. It's that he lacks the killer attitude or tenacity or whatever you want to call it that his dad had (and has).

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:47 PM
  #139
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He also looks like an insomniac/stoner, which might explain a bit.
most of my friends are insomniacs/stoners, so that probably explains it on my end too.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:49 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
He was starting to turn it around though, but since Maatta is in the NHL right now and Despres is eternally in the doghouse, I should probably prepare myself.
No matter how much sense it makes to trade Niskanen, yes, you should prepare yourself.

On a side note: Do you think Borts will look better, worse, or the same with Nisky on his left side rather than Maatta?

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10-05-2013, 10:50 PM
  #141
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Sorry about that, he typed for a sec there. He's here drinking. The real me wants Lundqvist.
oh wow. I'VE been drinking. Why the hell did I think that was KIRK?

Sorry. I'm apparently drunk.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:51 PM
  #142
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KIRK's been drinking
How did I enter this equation?

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oh wow. I'VE been drinking. Why the hell did I think that was KIRK?

Sorry. I'm apparently drunk.
Actually, you're insane. Sobriety or lack thereof has little bearing on your posts.

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10-05-2013, 10:51 PM
  #143
66-29-33
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oh wow. I'VE been drinking. Why the hell did I think that was KIRK?

Sorry. I'm apparently drunk.
Then who's this here with me? uh oh...TELL MY

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10-05-2013, 10:52 PM
  #144
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That's why I referenced his time against Geno when he was with the Canes. Muscle didn't prevent him from doing a great job. No, sad and odd as it sounds, I wonder if what he really lacks is that Sutter tenacity. You look at his dad, still looks like a guy who scares the **** out of you. Probably would play a pick up game against 10 year olds that way. The apple, I'm afraid, fell far from the tree in that regard. It's not that I think he doesn't care. It's that he lacks the killer attitude or tenacity or whatever you want to call it that his dad had (and has).
I think tenacity, grit, aggression, attitude or whatever (x factor) is part of it. He's kind of mellow and meek. But if it had been the playoffs, who's to say that Geno wouldn't have thrown him off or destroyed him, or just done more to outplay Sutter. Hell, maybe Sutter could only keep that up for a game or two. The playoffs are a different beast, and that's where I think the cracks really started to show with Sutter.

Multiple problems, I guess.

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10-05-2013, 10:52 PM
  #145
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We could do that, but then Dupuis' feelings would be hurt and Bylsma would have broken a promise to Dupuis. That only happens to rookies.

What this team needs more than anything is for the lines to be done properly, until that happens the roster is a fairly moot point.
And, don't forget, Sid really likes playing with Kunitz and Dupuis.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:55 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by vabm8 View Post
I think tenacity, grit, aggression, attitude or whatever (x factor) is part of it. He's kind of mellow and meek. But if it had been the playoffs, who's to say that Geno wouldn't have thrown him off or destroyed him, or just done more to outplay Sutter. Hell, maybe Sutter could only keep that up for a game or two. The playoffs are a different beast, and that's where I think the cracks really started to show with Sutter.

Multiple problems, I guess.
C'mon, guys like Talbot (or Brent Sutter) . . . what a player lacks in size or muscle he can make up for with tenacity and abandon. Brett, as you noted, is mellow and meek. He's a nice kid. What he needs is to play like a Sutter.

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Old
10-05-2013, 10:55 PM
  #147
Zen Arcade
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He was starting to turn it around though, but since Maatta is in the NHL right now and Despres is eternally in the doghouse, I should probably prepare myself.
I think it depends on his performance in WBS, Dumoulin is still out, so he's going to be relied on pretty heavily.

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10-05-2013, 10:56 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No matter how much sense it makes to trade Niskanen, yes, you should prepare yourself.

On a side note: Do you think Borts will look better, worse, or the same with Nisky on his left side rather than Maatta?
I think that's the wrong question, because Bort will hold his own no matter who his partner is.

The question is will which of these scenarios is more likely:

Maatta still having ice water in his veins come playoff time with a fierce forecheck

Or

Nisky finally not wilting come playoff time with a fierce forecheck

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10-05-2013, 10:58 PM
  #149
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While Neal's out, I really want to see Jeffrey build chemistry with Sutter and Beau with Geno. A guy like Jokinen could then become expendable in a deal for a player that better fits our needs up front. Yes, yes I know Nisky is the board's official odd man out, but if the team is keeping him this year, then that's another option down the road.
I'm tired of your dislike for Jokinen. We shouldn't trade him. The dude is so versatile and he produces. He needs to be kept.

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Old
10-05-2013, 11:00 PM
  #150
Mr Jiggyfly
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I think it depends on his performance in WBS, Dumoulin is still out, so he's going to be relied on pretty heavily.
Ah **** it then, he's getting traded.

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