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Cole's Plus/Minus: Game 2 Pens vs. Sabres

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10-06-2013, 01:13 AM
  #201
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by vabm8 View Post
How he's used is the biggest problem, that and I'm going to spend the rest of his contract waiting or him to fall off the cliff. He doesn't look good this season right after signing the damn thing, I can't say I'm happy about that. It might be a brief down turn or it might be his new norm, it's a horrible game to play, Is Dupuis in Decline or Not?

It also enables Bylsma's ********.
Two games > two years. Microscopic sample sizes ftw.

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10-06-2013, 01:17 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by vabm8 View Post
How he's used is the biggest problem, that and I'm going to spend the rest of his contract waiting or him to fall off the cliff. He doesn't look good this season right after signing the damn thing, I can't say I'm happy about that. It might be a brief down turn or it might be his new norm, it's a horrible game to play, Is Dupuis in Decline or Not?

It also enables Bylsma's ********.
Who doesn't?

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10-06-2013, 01:19 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Two games > two years. Microscopic sample sizes ftw.
Exactly. Nobody would say that MAF has turned the corner after only 2 games, so why are people so willing to say that #9 has gone down the *******?

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10-06-2013, 01:21 AM
  #204
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Second game in a row I liked everyone's game except Glass' and Adams. Wasn't crazy about Kunitz and Dupuis work, either, but both are notoriously slow starters.

Fleury had another solid game. The only puck that beat him was on a deflection that maybe 5 players in the world can make in a game situation.

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10-06-2013, 01:22 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Lots of good stuff that has been covered.

I think Sutter is getting a bit if a raw deal among some. Thought he made numerous good plays in this one. Bortuzzo is focused on a bit less because of Maatta novelty, but he was enormous in this one. So was Scuderi again.
Lots of good interplay on Malkin's line but I still worry that ultimately it will need more jam than Jokinen when we face real opposition.

Negatives - seeing the numerous occasions where two thirds of Malkin's line is out there with Glass or Adams.
Thinking about Dupuis being a Pen for four years at 3.75 per. We could put Bennett on the top line and Jeffrey permanently on the third and all we'd miss would be a bit of speed while getting 3 million extra in cap room and have the potential to add someone who is needed more.

Ah well... heresy I suppose.
I still haven't made up my mind about Sutter. I see him do some good things, but then sometimes he seems to be the invisible man. I don't think constantly changing out his line mates is doing him any favors. Last season, there was a lot of focus on Geno's revolving wing, but Sutter's line was impacted by that, too. And it seems we're seeing more of that this year. Injuries happen, and lines get shuffled, but the third line seems to be in a state of flux all the time.

I, too, have the somewhat unpopular opinion that moving Duper would be a good idea. Great guy and all, but I think that BB would be better off in his spot. I like Jeffrey with Sutter and so far Kobasew works well with him, too. Duper and Geno have never meshed well, and JJ is more versatile so, in my mind that makes Duper the odd man out. I'd rather move him now than later.

I also hold the even more unpopular opinion that if we're moving one of our D that it be Orpik. Neither one is going to happen, though.

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10-06-2013, 01:26 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
Can I give 57 minuses to Tyler Myers? He doesn't just look bad, he looks completely out of his element.
Yeah, I don't understand it. It's not just this one game, either. The way he's playing in this young season would get him benched in the AHL. It's really confusing to watch.

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10-06-2013, 01:27 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Two games > two years. Microscopic sample sizes ftw.
The next sentence says that, "It might be a brief down turn or it might be his new norm." It's just something I don't like thinking about but I am.

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10-06-2013, 01:28 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by DegenX View Post
I still haven't made up my mind about Sutter. I see him do some good things, but then sometimes he seems to be the invisible man. I don't think constantly changing out his line mates is doing him any favors. Last season, there was a lot of focus on Geno's revolving wing, but Sutter's line was impacted by that, too. And it seems we're seeing more of that this year. Injuries happen, and lines get shuffled, but the third line seems to be in a state of flux all the time.

I, too, have the somewhat unpopular opinion that moving Duper would be a good idea. Great guy and all, but I think that BB would be better off in his spot. I like Jeffrey with Sutter and so far Kobasew works well with him, too. Duper and Geno have never meshed well, and JJ is more versatile so, in my mind that makes Duper the odd man out. I'd rather move him now than later.

I also hold the even more unpopular opinion that if we're moving one of our D that it be Orpik. Neither one is going to happen, though.
I was just thinking tonight of the inevitability of Orpik re-signing.

There's no way around it.

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10-06-2013, 01:28 AM
  #209
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I guess we're gonna continue to rehash the Dupuis signing for the next four years when he has a few off games. Okay.

Not a whole lot of negatives tonight. The things that we were saying that the team needed to improve on actually improved. Quite a bit. I saw ALOT of decent controlled breakouts while under pressure and I saw us controlling the puck in the Sabres zone.

Brooks Orpik. One time you were my favorite Penguin. Of course, the options at the time were Billy Tibbets, Tomas Surovy etc. I don't know if it is time catching up to you or what but you are truly pissing me off. Way to lose Vanek, you know, the only real offensive threat on the ice for the Sabres and ruin Maffy's shutout. Pull your head out of your butt dude. Your skating is not as good as it once was, but it is still good. It is stupidity and tons of mental errors. Depres and Bennett were benched for far less than that last year.
I swear I think Bylsma defines accountability the way most of us would define selective accountability. Geez!

That defensive pairing was on the ice for most of the Sabres sustained pressure and good chances. Of course they were playing against the Sabres best offense so that stands to reason.

Really wanted to see The Flower get the shutout. Damn! There goes all of his new found confidence and along with it our season. He played very good though. As did our team defense. I say team because it is very obvious how our forwards are making a solid effort in our teams zone and it is very nice to see.

Awesome to see Jeffery becoming a regular for whatever that's worth right now.

A team with Ott, McCormick, Scott and Kaleta? Man, an embarrassment of wealth in the jerk department.

Finally, and this might be very unpopular, but I REALLY don't get the Rick Jeanette love. Like, at all. He is an awful announcer. There is biased, which a lot of announcers are, and he isn't any worse than others in that department, but every time a Penguin dominated in some way and didn't finish, it was because of some obscure thing some Sabre did in order to cause it (which it wasn't). Listening to him you would have thought Buffalo was dominating and controlling the play but just happened to unluckily be behind. No credit at all to the Penguins which again I can understand.
But dude, how many times are you gonna call out the wrong players names? Do you NOT have a roster right there on your desk? 4 is not Orpik. Kobasew is NOT named Shelly. Nor is it Kush. And while I realize that Maata is a rookie, you can still read that there is an "A" at the end of his name, so when you spend the ENTIRE GAME CALLING HIM "Mot" despite calling him Matta (pronounced like door mat) the first shift, it makes you sound like an unprepared rookie.
Oh, and one more thing. When you opine that "there is no update on Kobasew, he isn't on the bench and we haven't seen him in awhile" when he was on the ice the shift DIRECTLY BEFORE, it makes you sound like an unprepared rookie.
I'm not even going to go on about the whole obnoxious, "SHAA-AWT" crap either.
End rant and Go Pens!

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Old
10-06-2013, 01:31 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I was just thinking tonight of the inevitability of Orpik re-signing.

There's no way around it.
You, sir, are probably right. *sigh*

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10-06-2013, 01:33 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
aside from his overall dominant defensive game since he got here, you mean? he plays some of the toughest minutes in the league and still comes out on the better half of 50% possession numbers. his defensive metrics come out way ahead of Staal's over the past 3 years. he doesn't hit people (though he did flatten someone tonight behind the net) and isn't fancy with the puck though, so a lot of people don't notice him going about his business very effectively.
As the resident 'ADVANCED STATZ' poster here I object to this post. Last year Sutter did get extremely difficult minutes, but he didn't do particularly well with them. He finished second to last on the team in Corsi and was dead last in RelCorsi. Staal during his time here played against similar competition while starting in the offensive zone a bit more and was far, far better possession wise. When I say far better, I mean it. There is a gigantic gap there - almost Craig Adams vs Sidney Crosby like.

I like the trade and all considering the situation we were in, but let's not get it twisted. Staal is twice the player Sutter is at this point in time.

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10-06-2013, 01:41 AM
  #212
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Slightly OT, but 'Thirty anonymous NHL stars talk about everything from realignment to goalie pads' voted Bylsma the NHL's smartest coach over Babcock and Quenneville.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/97...-espn-magazine

So youse Jagoffs do not know hocket. Obviously. Disco is the smartestestest.

My guess is that Adams and Glass voted 15 times each.


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Old
10-06-2013, 02:24 AM
  #213
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They aren't coached by him, they probably would say that because the wins and him going to coach team USA. If they played for him, they would be singing a different tune. I'm baffled how they think Lundqvist is the 2nd most overrated player in the league and how the eff is Datsyuk underrated? LOL!!!

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10-06-2013, 02:45 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
They aren't coached by him, they probably would say that because the wins and him going to coach team USA. If they played for him, they would be singing a different tune. I'm baffled how they think Lundqvist is the 2nd most overrated player in the league and how the eff is Datsyuk underrated? LOL!!!
Hooray for bald assertions and conjecture!

Dudes, smartest does not mean perfect. By all measures Bylsma IS a smart coach-- and the players that play for him have said it. Is he perfect? No. Jesus, no.

But neither are Babcock or Q. Hell, neither was Bowman, or Badger Bob. I'm not defending Bylsma's questionable decisions, but to act like he's as dumb as our average poster here is well.... stupid.

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10-06-2013, 02:59 AM
  #215
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Hooray for bald assertions and conjecture!

Dudes, smartest does not mean perfect. By all measures Bylsma IS a smart coach-- and the players that play for him have said it. Is he perfect? No. Jesus, no.

But neither are Babcock or Q. Hell, neither was Bowman, or Badger Bob. I'm not defending Bylsma's questionable decisions, but to act like he's as dumb as our average poster here is well.... stupid.
Sticks and stones breh.

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10-06-2013, 03:26 AM
  #216
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Malkin again with less TOI than Dupuis and Kunitz, and with more than 2 mins less than Crosby...

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10-06-2013, 04:16 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Human View Post
Malkin again with less TOI than Dupuis and Kunitz, and with more than 2 mins less than Crosby...
Weird. It felt like he was out there every other shift. Guess having Glass and Adams out there just makes it feel longer.

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10-06-2013, 05:24 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
They aren't coached by him, they probably would say that because the wins and him going to coach team USA. If they played for him, they would be singing a different tune. I'm baffled how they think Lundqvist is the 2nd most overrated player in the league and how the eff is Datsyuk underrated? LOL!!!
Seriously, how in the blue **** is Datsyuk underrated by anyone. That's insane.

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10-06-2013, 07:55 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Pghkev View Post
Dupuis was an awful signing and it's only going to get worse. How many teams would trade for Dupuis even if they didn't have to give up much? Terrible contract
I would guarantee many teams. If Dupuis didn't have offers from other teams, Shero wouldn't have been in that ballpark in the first place. It's simple economics.

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10-06-2013, 08:19 AM
  #220
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- I'm cool with Sutter, but before the Staal trade I was insistent Jeffrey would be perfect for that third pivot role. Jeffrey was making plays and beating guys 1-1 last night, playing well defensively, killing penalties, etc. I keep saying it, but this guy never quits and always finds a way to produce (when given a chance).

As for Sutter, he is a smart guy and I think he will do big things for this team, but people need to stop expecting him to be Staal. He has made two really nice plays to help get the Pens on the board in each game.

As much as there is pining for Staal now, we had a ton of complaints about him. Didn't play angry enough... Didn't bring it every game... Didn't dish the puck well... Disappeared for long stretches...

- something I forgot to touch on about Maatta...

He was doing a great job of getting his shots on net. That is a skill, not luck. He did this very well for the Knights and it's encouraging to see it translating to the pros.

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10-06-2013, 08:31 AM
  #221
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
They aren't coached by him, they probably would say that because the wins and him going to coach team USA. If they played for him, they would be singing a different tune. I'm baffled how they think Lundqvist is the 2nd most overrated player in the league and how the eff is Datsyuk underrated? LOL!!!
A more popular opinion than you'd realize. I was talking to Brent Johnson and Phil Bourque over the summer and the topic of best goalies in the league came up, they both went with Quick, zero hesitation, and agreed that they feel Lundqvist is a great goaltender, but over rated.

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10-06-2013, 08:34 AM
  #222
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I really like Jeffrey in the third line spot. I don't get the Sutter hate either. He's been good imo.

When Neal is back, I don't know exactly what I want. Someone has to drop to the 3rd line, but Jeffrey - Sutter - Kobasew seem to mesh pretty well. I think I've already gotten back to the point where I believe Dupuis should be the odd man out of the top 6. And I really really hope Glass and Adams don't both play all season if we are healthy. One of them needs to sit. Ideally, both by playoff time. But I don't think that is even a consideration for Bylsma.

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10-06-2013, 08:49 AM
  #223
Le Magnifique 66
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Ok what happened to our Penguins? 2 games played and 1goal against?

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10-06-2013, 08:52 AM
  #224
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Ok what happened to our Penguins? 2 games played and 1goal against?
our defense is solid
fleury has looked good
we may have played the two worst offenses in the league

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10-06-2013, 08:57 AM
  #225
Le Magnifique 66
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our defense is solid
fleury has looked good
we may have played the two worst offenses in the league
Still just doesn't feel right

We usually beat bad offensively teams 8-5

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