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Eller vs Turris

View Poll Results: Who would you rather have?
Lars Eller 221 57.85%
Kyle Turris 161 42.15%
Voters: 382. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-07-2013, 01:52 PM
  #151
sharks9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
+/- is a really flawed stat, Corsi Rel QoC would be better to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGV View Post
I'm not good with advanced stats, but isn't the Corsi Rel QoC more relevant for qualifying the quality of opposition?
Yes it is.

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Old
10-07-2013, 02:01 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
+/- is a really flawed stat, Corsi Rel QoC would be better to use.
So,

Turris = 2nd on team

Eller = 3rd on team

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Old
10-07-2013, 02:04 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
I always assumed quality of competition was more relevant but I too im not good with advanced stats.
Corsi QoC and +/- QoC are both quality of competition stats, but one is based on Corsi (shots directed on net) and the other is based on +/- (goals scored). Corsi has been proven to be a much, MUCH better statistical indicator than +/-, although its not perfect either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
So,

Turris = 2nd on team

Eller = 3rd on team
Among players who have played at least 30 games last season. Bourque faced tougher competition in Montreal and Latendresse in Ottawa, but neither played 30 games.

Turris also had more offensive zone starts than Eller, although Ottawa was generally better at getting face-offs in the offensive zone than Montreal.


Last edited by Captain Smurf: 10-07-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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10-07-2013, 02:05 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
So,

Turris = 2nd on team

Eller = 3rd on team
Again, I'm not good with advanced stats, but aren't these stats advanced enough to be judged by themselves, and not in comparisons to the other players on the same team?

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10-07-2013, 02:11 PM
  #155
Kezia
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
Again, I'm not good with advanced stats, but aren't these stats advanced enough to be judged by themselves, and not in comparisons to the other players on the same team?
Not really.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...12+13+14+15+16

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...12+13+14+15+16

According to that the leafs always played better players, despite having basically played the same teams the same amount of times.

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10-07-2013, 02:16 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Not really.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...12+13+14+15+16

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...12+13+14+15+16

According to that the leafs always played better players, despite having basically played the same teams the same amount of times.
One day I'll try to understand all of this. For now, I'll just let you guys discuss advanced stats.

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10-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Not really.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...12+13+14+15+16

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...12+13+14+15+16

According to that the leafs always played better players, despite having basically played the same teams the same amount of times.
No, it means that Toronto played better Corsi teams than Montreal, which makes sense, because Toronto was an awful possession team last year, and Montreal was one of the better possession teams in the league. The same rings true for Ottawa, who was a fantastic possession team last season:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...12+13+14+15+16

(as an aside, note the number of games a player has played, as its really hard to use any stat without a large enough sample size)

I don't really like just looking at Corsi QoC, as it doesn't really take into account who else is on the ice, zone starts, the time-on-ice of the opposition. Its important to look all sorts of advanced statistics before making an argument. QoC is in general is a difficult stats to address, considering the different ways to calculate it (+/-, TOI, Corsi, CorsiRel, Fenwick, HARO, HARD, HART, etc.). Coaches also have different criteria for matching opposing lines.

All I'll say is that I wouldn't trade Eller for Turris, but both guys have shockingly similar impacts on the game.


Last edited by Captain Smurf: 10-07-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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10-07-2013, 04:08 PM
  #158
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I have a feeling it will be pointless to try and compare these two players based on past seasons. Something tells me the body of work that both players will produce from here on out will be drastically different than their output to date, and comparing the CORSI for their 2013 season won't really matter in the long run.

Both players were drafted as projects (keep in mind Turris was roughly 110 lbs when drafted and Eller has grown 3 inches SINCE his draft day) and have taken a lot of time to develop. Now that they both seem poised to take the next step, evaluating either player on the first 5 years of their careers seems foolish.

I'd take Eller on the Habs simply because his style of play is based on a combination of power and speed, and the habs sorely need that. Ottawa fans probably feel that Turris brings a solid mix of playmaking and goalscoring that their lineup sorely lacks.

Either way, both players are about to take HUGE strides this year, and i would be excited to have either on my team.

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10-07-2013, 04:26 PM
  #159
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the thing i like best about Turris is he is clutch and golden in the playoffs

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Old
10-07-2013, 04:32 PM
  #160
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Yeah, Turris is clutch. We'll see after this season as to which is better. I like Turris personally, but I'll admit to being biased in this specific poll/thread.

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10-07-2013, 05:01 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by newerabegins View Post
You'll see. Turris will finally play a full season with OTT and will finally break his 29 points career high(in 48 games) that people dog him for. He'll probably double it, actually.

P.S. Poor attempt at humour
I hope he breaks his career high, because otherwise he will be absolutely awful. And if he doesn't exceed his career high PPG it means he will have scored less than 50 points.

And my humour was pretty good, you just don't find it funny because it was directed at you.

In any case, we'll see at the end of the season which one played better.

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10-07-2013, 05:44 PM
  #162
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10-07-2013, 07:15 PM
  #163
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God, it boils my blood when Turris loses a poll!

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10-07-2013, 08:04 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Eller isn't going to lose a poll all season.
I wouldn't go that far but he sure as hell isn't going to lose this one .

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10-07-2013, 09:19 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
I have a feeling it will be pointless to try and compare these two players based on past seasons. Something tells me the body of work that both players will produce from here on out will be drastically different than their output to date, and comparing the CORSI for their 2013 season won't really matter in the long run.

Both players were drafted as projects (keep in mind Turris was roughly 110 lbs when drafted and Eller has grown 3 inches SINCE his draft day) and have taken a lot of time to develop. Now that they both seem poised to take the next step, evaluating either player on the first 5 years of their careers seems foolish.

I'd take Eller on the Habs simply because his style of play is based on a combination of power and speed, and the habs sorely need that. Ottawa fans probably feel that Turris brings a solid mix of playmaking and goalscoring that their lineup sorely lacks.

Either way, both players are about to take HUGE strides this year, and i would be excited to have either on my team.
What? I remember he was somewhat undersized, but it couldn't be that bad. Found a 2007 link saying he was 170 lbs. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ar.../t-345290.html

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Old
10-08-2013, 09:57 AM
  #166
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I like Turris but I went Eller. I actually think he has 1st line potential as a solid 1st line center and great 2nd line center.

Turris too has nice potential but I went with Eller for now.

This would be a good one to keep an eye out for this season.

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10-08-2013, 10:08 AM
  #167
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They are pretty different players which makes the comparison difficult.

However, if the offense is even, I'd say that, in general, the big power centre is more valuable than the speedy quick-skating centre.

I guess we'll see how it pans out.

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10-08-2013, 12:42 PM
  #168
Le Magnifique 66
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Old
10-08-2013, 03:53 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
What? I remember he was somewhat undersized, but it couldn't be that bad. Found a 2007 link saying he was 170 lbs. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ar.../t-345290.html
I've seen 165 on draft lists from the time, but 110 seems pretty outlandish.

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10-08-2013, 03:56 PM
  #170
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Tough choice.

Glad I have both on my fantasy team

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10-08-2013, 03:57 PM
  #171
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What the ****.

Turris was 110lbs on draft day ? Are you serious ? Guy is skinny as hell, but no way he was 110.

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10-08-2013, 05:13 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
What? I remember he was somewhat undersized, but it couldn't be that bad. Found a 2007 link saying he was 170 lbs. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ar.../t-345290.html
Oh dear god! i figured a number that low would be seen as obvious hyperbole.

No he was not 110 pounds. He was about 6-1 and 170 pounds of wiry child.

He has filled out his frame and now looks to be a legit 195.

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10-08-2013, 05:22 PM
  #173
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This is a pretty conveniently timed poll but I'll still go with Eller. If you were to take this poll over the summer I think Turris would have a lot more votes.

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Old
10-08-2013, 05:22 PM
  #174
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Lars Eller = Mikko Koivu.

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Old
10-08-2013, 07:34 PM
  #175
Captain Smurf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
They are pretty different players which makes the comparison difficult.

However, if the offense is even, I'd say that, in general, the big power centre is more valuable than the speedy quick-skating centre.

I guess we'll see how it pans out.
Are they though?

-Same draft year
-Same Position
-Both have taken about as long to acclimatize to the NHL (truly starting last season)
-Both have a comparable effect on the game
-Both are positive possession players
-Both are capable 2-way players
-Both can't carry a line the way a star can, but can be lethal with complimentary line-mates.
-Similar point totals so far in their careers
-Neither draw (or are matched) against the other teams top lines and defenders, but oppositions secondary options (assuming a healthy roster).

Compared to most of the other polls here, its a very good comparison.

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