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09-28-2003, 09:37 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by monkey_00
I never put Gonchar in the same category as Blake or Lidstrom....don't know where you came up with that.....also Gonchar doesn't shoot the puck?.........that's funny, he's only been among the League leaders in goal scoring by NHL defencemen...He would be a much welcomed addition to Toronto's powerplay I think.
You misunderstood the post completely..

I was trying to say that Kaberle is just like Gonchar but KABERLE does not shoot but all Gonchar does is shoot....and you said we need a number 1 dman and that is what lidstrom and Blake are, and I said Gonchar is not in their league as far as #1's go and what I picture as a top dman...not just a guy like Gonchar who scores 20 goals and finnishes the year as a MINUS 45 in +/-....

I say we need Adam Foote not Gonchar.. Leafs Forwards are more than capable of scoring goals and don't need to count on the Defense for that and what Leafs currenly have can contribute enough anyway..

Also Washington was devastated on D this offseason with UFA and retirement... Why would they trade Gonchar and what would Leafs need to get him??

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09-28-2003, 09:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
You misunderstood the post completely..

I was trying to say that Kaberle is just like Gonchar but KABERLE does not shoot but all Gonchar does is shoot....and you said we need a number 1 dman and that is what lidstrom and Blake are, and I said Gonchar is not in their league as far as #1's go and what I picture as a top dman...not just a guy like Gonchar who scores 20 goals and finnishes the year as a MINUS 45 in +/-....

I say we need Adam Foote not Gonchar.. Leafs Forwards are more than capable of scoring goals and don't need to count on the Defense for that and what Leafs currenly have can contribute enough anyway..

Also Washington was devastated on D this offseason with UFA and retirement... Why would they trade Gonchar and what would Leafs need to get him??
Sergei Gonchar's low +/- rating had alot to do with the team that he was playing for and not so much with the type of player that he is.......there's no way in hell the Leafs are getting Adam Foote out of Colorado...nice thought though but it'll never happen...not this year anyways.........HOWEVER; Gonchar I feel could be had for the right price.....and you put him here in Toronto and he would be our #1 guy at the back of our blueline.

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09-28-2003, 09:44 PM
  #28
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The Leafs have plenty of young defencemen in their system that Washington doesn't have....there's a start on who we would be able to give up to Washington for Gonchar.

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09-28-2003, 09:44 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by monkey_00
There's no way Hatcher was coming to the Leafs...Hatcher was only using the Leafs as leverage in trying to get the best possible deal out of Detroit...Hatcher hails from the Detroit area and has always wanted to play for the Red Wings....nice try though.
Timing is everything and had Hasek commited earlier and Detroit realized that they where going to have 2 - 8 million a year goalies on the roster...Detroit may not have signed Hatcher... there Defense is good enough without Hatcher and in turn lost Federov because of it.. If Holland could turn back time he may have made a different decision,

and also you where quick to point out that Leafs needed a #1 dman and have not had one since Salming then what price is too steep to get it , particualrly as a UFA without parting with players..

and I don't feel Hatcher is a true #1 anyway just that a big mean crease clearing dman is just what the doctor ordered for TO..

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09-28-2003, 09:46 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Timing is everything and had Hasek commited earlier and Detroit realized that they where going to have 2 - 8 million a year goalies on the roster...Detroit may not have signed Hatcher... there Defense is good enough without Hatcher and in turn lost Federov because of it.. If Holland could turn back time he may have made a different decision,

and also you where quick to point out that Leafs needed a #1 dman and have not had one since Salming then what price is too steep to get it , particualrly as a UFA without parting with players..

and I don't feel Hatcher is a true #1 anyway just that a big mean crease clearing dman is just what the doctor ordered for TO..
Hatcher not a true #1 defenceman?.....ok........Ya he would have looked great in Toronto I really like the guy but I think he had his sights on Detroit all along.....anyways that's history and he's with Detroit now.

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09-28-2003, 09:58 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_00
Sergei Gonchar's low +/- rating had alot to do with the team that he was playing for and not so much with the type of player that he is.......there's no way in hell the Leafs are getting Adam Foote out of Colorado...nice thought though but it'll never happen...not this year anyways.........HOWEVER; Gonchar I feel could be had for the right price.....and you put him here in Toronto and he would be our #1 guy at the back of our blueline.
PLEEEASE !!!!!!! Gonchar should be a forward not a Dman with his offensive talants and lack of defense.. Klee is defensive partner was a Plus 22 and Gonchar was a hugh liability in his own zone..

From watching the Leafs defense in the exhibition season, having trouble in their own end is already a strength of the current Defense..

I also wasn't saying get Adam Foote just that is what we need more than a Brian Leetch, Housley, Gonchar type.. and that was the whole point of my post in the first place that #1 dman like that are NOT AVAILABLE no matter how much Leafs need one...

Do you honestly think that EVERY GM since Salmings retirement has not tried to land that stud Dman.. and for every other GM in the league for that Matter..

and Gonchar's name has not been mentioned in any trade rumours I have ever seen, unless its in hypothical trades posted on HF.. So he might just be as IMPOSSIBLE as LIDSTROM and BLAKE and FOOTE and PRONGER and JOVO etc... THEY are ALL Unavailable to Everyone...

You just made up his name, its not like Washington is trying to trade him anyway... all we every hear is Jagr and Lang as Salary dumps.. not Gonchar

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09-28-2003, 10:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
PLEEEASE !!!!!!! Gonchar should be a forward not a Dman with his offensive talants and lack of defense.. Klee is defensive partner was a Plus 22 and Gonchar was a hugh liability in his own zone..

From watching the Leafs defense in the exhibition season, having trouble in their own end is already a strength of the current Defense..

I also wasn't saying get Adam Foote just that is what we need more than a Brian Leetch, Housley, Gonchar type.. and that was the whole point of my post in the first place that #1 dman like that are NOT AVAILABLE no matter how much Leafs need one...

Do you honestly think that EVERY GM since Salmings retirement has not tried to land that stud Dman.. and for every other GM in the league for that Matter..

and Gonchar's name has not been mentioned in any trade rumours I have ever seen, unless its in hypothical trades posted on HF.. So he might just be as IMPOSSIBLE as LIDSTROM and BLAKE and FOOTE and PRONGER and JOVO etc... THEY are ALL Unavailable to Everyone...

You just made up his name, its not like Washington is trying to trade him anyway... all we every hear is Jagr and Lang as Salary dumps.. not Gonchar
Nope....Sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here on this one Mickey.....I really think Gonchar would do WONDERS for the Leafs powerplay.....not only that but if you HONESTLY feel that Gonchar should be a forward instead of a defenceman then why hasn't it been done already???

Enquiring monkeys want to know.

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09-28-2003, 10:06 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_00
Hatcher not a true #1 defenceman?.....ok........Ya he would have looked great in Toronto I really like the guy but I think he had his sights on Detroit all along.....anyways that's history and he's with Detroit now.
Hatcher rebounded big time last year look back on his season before that and struggled big time and Dallas was rumoured to be trying to dump him then... and he only averages 25-30 points a year ..Is that a true #1????.. He is only a #1 at times becasue of his size...toughness and crease clearing ability..certainly not his offense.. he doesn't even play the PP in a PP QB is what TO could use as its #1 if it can't find that Scott Stevens rock on Defense type player...

My definition of a #1 dman is consistancy ..you would never see Lidstrom go from one extreme to the other...

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09-28-2003, 10:13 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Hatcher rebounded big time last year look back on his season before that and struggled big time and Dallas was rumoured to be trying to dump him then... and he only averages 25-30 points a year ..Is that a true #1????.. He is only a #1 at times becasue of his size...toughness and crease clearing ability..certainly not his offense.. he doesn't even play the PP in a PP QB is what TO could use as its #1 if it can't find that Scott Stevens rock on Defense type player...

My definition of a #1 dman is consistancy ..you would never see Lidstrom go from one extreme to the other...
Rod Langway remember him?....He was never an offensive powerhouse either for the Washington Capitals but he won the Norris trophy more than once as the League's top defender...He was the #1 defenceman in Washington AND the entire NHL in his prime so you don't have to be an offensive powerhouse back of the blueline to be considered #1...Langway is a good example here and so to is Derian Hatcher.

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09-28-2003, 10:14 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by monkey_00
Nope....Sorry but I'm gonna have to disagree with you here on this one Mickey.....I really think Gonchar would do WONDERS for the Leafs powerplay.....not only that but if you HONESTLY feel that Gonchar should be a forward instead of a defenceman then why hasn't it been done already???

Enquiring monkeys want to know.
That's easy BECAUSE Washington needs defense and can not afford to trade him or even move him forward... and the only thing that keeps him back their is his blast from the point on the PP... You will notice that his partner on the point is Bondra on the PP becasue of his shot and lack of defenseman capable of that in Washington... and you think that Washington can afford to trade him... They are in the same boat and if they should trade say Gonchar for Kaberle what would be the point for either team ... Both need Defense so they do not make good trading partners as both teams are dealing from a position of weakness..

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09-28-2003, 10:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
That's easy BECAUSE Washington needs defense and can not afford to trade him or even move him forward... and the only thing that keeps him back their is his blast from the point on the PP... You will notice that his partner on the point is Bondra on the PP becasue of his shot and lack of defenseman capable of that in Washington... and you think that Washington can afford to trade him... They are in the same boat and if they should trade say Gonchar for Kaberle what would be the point for either team ... Both need Defense so they do not make good trading partners as both teams are dealing from a position of weakness..
Ya but if Washington doesn't make the playoffs this season he just might be one of the players that they'd be willing to unload......I honestly think we're going to see alot of changes with the Washington Capitals roster of players before the season is out......Gonchar is the type of player that would be able to bring them back something of value in any sort of a deal PLUS he's not as expensive as say Jagr is for example...Jagr's price tag scares off most teams but Gonchar's price tag is alot more affordable I think.

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09-28-2003, 10:19 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_00
Rod Langway remember him?....He was never an offensive powerhouse either for the Washington Capitals but he won the Norris trophy more than once as the League's top defender...He was the #1 defenceman in Washington AND the entire NHL in his prime so you don't have to be an offensive powerhouse back of the blueline to be considered #1...Langway is a good example here and so to is Derian Hatcher.
Well but Langways do not grow on trees and players like that are few and far between in the NHL and you could count them on one hand in the past 20 years.. way back in 1983-84 over 20 years ago..

many would argue that Zubov is the Number 1 dman in Dallas and if Hatcher was that great why did Dallas let him go and never even offer him a contract to stay???

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09-28-2003, 10:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Well but Langways do not grow on trees and players like that are few and far between in the NHL and you could count them on one hand in the past 20 years..

many would argue that Zubov is the Number 1 dman in Dallas and if Hatcher was that great why did Dallas let him go and never even offer him a contract to stay???
Langways do not grow on trees but Langway is what I see in a Derian Hatcher.....for me Derian Hatcher is a Top-10 NHL defenceman and would be the #1 guy on most of the teams in todays' NHL.

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09-28-2003, 10:29 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_00
Langways do not grow on trees but Langway is what I see in a Derian Hatcher.....for me Derian Hatcher is a Top-10 NHL defenceman and would be the #1 guy on most of the teams in todays' NHL.
but name a Langway type that was available ???? and if Hatcher is that guy and they are so few and far between than what is the price to get one if you really need one.. ??

It was the Nolan trade and the Svehla option that Quinn picked up that cost the leafs at the time 10 Million plus in Salary, before the Quinn mistake was corrected... and since Svehla did retire ....Who would you rather have now NOLAN or that stud #1 dman in Hatcher ..and that is not even factoring what TO gave up to get Nolan just his 6.5 million dollar long term salary

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09-28-2003, 10:33 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
but name a Langway type that was available ???? and if Hatcher is that guy and they are so few and far between than what is the price to get one if you really need one.. ??

It was the Nolan trade and the Svehla option that Quinn picked up that cost the leafs at the time 10 Million plus in Salary, before the Quinn mistake was corrected... and since Svehla did retire ....Who would you rather have now NOLAN or that stud #1 dman in Hatcher ..and that is not even factoring what TO gave up to get Nolan just his 6.5 million dollar long term salary
I agree with you here in tha Hatcher would have ben the perfect addition to Toronto's defence but like I've already said I honestly think Hatcher had his sights on Detroit all along......that's where he's from anyways and he wanted to be closer to family there.....although I do remember him also saying that Toronto isn't that far away from his home in Michigan but after everything was said and done I'm really not that surprised to see him land in Detroit.........no use talking about it now....we have to look elsewhere for some blueline help.

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09-28-2003, 10:48 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by monkey_00
I agree with you here in tha Hatcher would have ben the perfect addition to Toronto's defence but like I've already said I honestly think Hatcher had his sights on Detroit all along......that's where he's from anyways and he wanted to be closer to family there.....although I do remember him also saying that Toronto isn't that far away from his home in Michigan but after everything was said and done I'm really not that surprised to see him land in Detroit.........no use talking about it now....we have to look elsewhere for some blueline help.
Thats fine ..thats the way it unfold so that is like spilt milk now... but I don't see any Dmen mentioned that would fit the #1 or #2 mold the Leafs need ..

Show me one article that says a Gonchar or Brewer or Redden or Jovanovski or Zubov or Foote or Niedermeyer or player like that is available....just available never mind what it would take to get one and I am not even talking about the pure #1's like Lidstrom, Pronger, Blakes, etc..

Just one article in any newspaper that says a top Dman is available..

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09-29-2003, 11:04 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Thats fine ..thats the way it unfold so that is like spilt milk now... but I don't see any Dmen mentioned that would fit the #1 or #2 mold the Leafs need ..

Show me one article that says a Gonchar or Brewer or Redden or Jovanovski or Zubov or Foote or Niedermeyer or player like that is available....just available never mind what it would take to get one and I am not even talking about the pure #1's like Lidstrom, Pronger, Blakes, etc..

Just one article in any newspaper that says a top Dman is available..
I never mentioned anything about an article...I think that was just a figment of your imagination (If you read my posts carefully) just pick up the phone and phone around that's all...that's what GMs are for right?

I think as well when we get close to the trading deadline if there's a team like the Capitals who are out of the playoff picture then I say we go and talk to them cause they may be wanting to unload some of their high-priced talent....there might be other teams with other players down the line that may be available....there usually is.

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