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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 6)

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Old
10-14-2013, 11:15 AM
  #776
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
That's open minded of you, but quite honestly, there must be at least a dozen regular posters who lurk in the background, hoping for a soft goal so they can pounce.

And if there isn't a soft goal, they'll bitz about how Price should have had that screened, double deflection.
Or the problem could be these presumed former victims of abuse and/or bullying who feel the need to rush in with over the top over-compensation/protection when they see discussion or comments on something that has grabbed someone else's attention as excuses to "pounce" from where they were "lurking in the background", and who honestly see online discussions like that as "destructive", implying there's any real effect, impact, or result from them.

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10-14-2013, 11:19 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
It takes a lot for someone to go on my IL. If they are there, it's probably because I have given them multiple chances to elaborate their positions, especially in PGT where they get called out for their comments.
Speaking of called out for their comments, dig up any of those posts regarding exclusive praise for Halak after 13 save shutouts? Or can we assume that Agnostic survived that little bit of attempted character assassination there? I expect you're having more trouble finding them than the other guy had finding all the god referencing posts.

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10-14-2013, 11:26 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Speaking of called out for their comments, dig up any of those posts regarding exclusive praise for Halak after 13 save shutouts? Or can we assume that Agnostic survived that little bit of attempted character assassination there? I expect you're having more trouble finding them than the other guy had finding all the god referencing posts.
I posted it last night and deleted the comments because it might be against the site rules, but here is what I posted before I cleared the comments:




Like I said earlier, Thanksgiving kept me from getting examples of Agnostic's double-standards. In a 30 second google search I found two examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
That's the easiest game Price will have all year. Flyers were brutal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
23 shots nothing really difficult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Reminds you of what Halak goes through with the Blues in every single game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
[/B]
Halak got a shutout last night but that's still a dumb comment.
Agnostic's response to someone using his quantity of shots argument against Halak, Agnostic's response: Halak got a shutout. But doesn't mention that the Blues won 7-0 and Halak had to make 19 big saves the whole game. This is ironic in the context of his argument two pages ago in which he down plays Price's performance last night because of the team's play in the third period.



Here's another beauty where the Habs lost 3-0 to the blues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Halak made all the big saves.
Price not so much.

In the goalie showdown, Halak wins yet again.
Again quantity of shots doesn't factor into Halak's assessment for Agnostic, but when Price doesn't face many shots in one of three periods, it's enough for him to dismiss Price's performance last night. Doesn't mention that habs were completely dominated that game, goaltender performance had little do with the outcome, but it doesn't matter for him, Halak had a shutout making "all the big saves".


Now Price makes 32 saves through two periods of last night game, making multiple big saves and being the only reason why the Habs were in the game at all, but downplays it because the Habs didn't concede many shots in the third. His exact quote:

Quote:
people like you need to wise up and learn the meaning of the word steal. Price was good when tested but the play was pretty even, Habs had the edge in chances and Price went almost an entire period without a dangerous shot
But when Halak makes 19 saves in a 7-0 win, quantity of shots don't play into the quality of performance, Halak got a shutout, challenging the difficulty of that shutout is an absurdity his in mind.

Again, I'm not surprised. I can give more examples of his double standards if you want, but we've all been on these board long enough to know his M.O. I hate that it has to come down to this petty crap, but the cheap shots and downplaying of Price is enough. Lets not forget his "JimCareyPrice" username and avatar with fingers crossed suggesting that he hopes Price fails. This latter along with all the other petty shots at Price over the last three years is more than enough to know that his posts are usually loaded with biases and attempts to downplay performances.

As for you Ohashi, it's sad to see that despite the quality of posts, your biases against Price force you to support a poster like this. Looking forward for the old Ohashi spin-job full of bolded, italicized and underlined words.


Last edited by Andy: 10-14-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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10-14-2013, 11:36 AM
  #779
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Here's another for you Ohashi, also for Agnostic. When I brought up the quantity of saves during a SO argument, here was Agnostics response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
This is full of deceit and distortion. YOU ARE FULLY AWARE that in shutouts per games played Halak is better than Price over their entire careers , since the trade, and while playing head to head in Montreal .
I can't believe the lengths you will go for your ego .
So we're not allowed to bring up the quantity of shots to discuss Halak's performance, but we can dismiss Price's performance against Vancouver because "Price went almost an entire period without a dangerous shot"<--his words, not mine.

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10-14-2013, 11:41 AM
  #780
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I'll take double standards for 200, Alex.

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10-14-2013, 11:42 AM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I posted it last night and deleted the comments because it might be against the site rules, but here is what I posted before I cleared the comments:




Like I said earlier, Thanksgiving kept me from getting examples of Agnostic's double-standards. In a 30 second google search I found two examples.









Agnostic's response to someone using his quantity of shots argument against Halak, Agnostic's response: Halak got a shutout. But doesn't mention that the Blues won 7-0 and Halak had to make 19 big saves the whole game. This is ironic in the context of his argument two pages ago in which he down plays Price's performance last night because of the team's play in the third period.



Here's another beauty where the Habs lost 3-0 to the blues...



Again quantity of shots doesn't factor into Halak's assessment for Agnostic, but when Price doesn't face many shots in one of three periods, it's enough for him to dismiss Price's performance last night. Doesn't mention that habs were completely dominated that game, goaltender performance had little do with the outcome, but it doesn't matter for him, Halak had a shutout making "all the big saves".


Now Price makes 32 saves through two periods of last night game, making multiple big saves and being the only reason why the Habs were in the game at all, but downplays it because the Habs didn't concede many shots in the third. His exact quote:



But when Halak makes 19 saves in a 7-0 win, quantity of shots don't play into the quality of performance, Halak got a shutout, challenging the difficulty of that shutout is an absurdity his in mind.

Again, I'm not surprised. I can give more examples of his double standards if you want, but we've all been on these board long enough to know his M.O. I hate that it has to come down to this petty crap, but the cheap shots and downplaying of Price is enough. Lets not forget his "JimCareyPrice" username and avatar with fingers crossed suggesting that he hopes Price fails. This latter along with all the other petty shots at Price over the last three years is more than enough to know that his posts are usually loaded with biases and attempts to downplay performances.

As for you Ohashi, it's sad to see that despite the quality of posts, your biases against Price force you to support a poster like this.
But in summary, nothing that "exclusively" puts the praise on any one player, not even Halak, in those shutouts. That's what I thought. Upset that you're getting called on your own hyperbole and exaggerations because you think he "deserves it" and you're just doing the good lord's work?

The point is, as much as you think he deserves it for his posting history, tacking what you did on the end of your post knowing full well you couldn't actually produce the goods amounts to little more than flaming/baiting.

And furthermore, I have never been biased against Price. I used to be on the completely opposite end of the spectrum from that, in fact. I'm just not impressed at his progress to this point (seriously, we've seen the same problems and heard about all the time there is to fix them for 5 years now), as good as he can look for stretches. Love it when he plays well like everyone else. Goaltender is my favourite position to dissect, having played the position for most of my minor hockey "career", and if people are going to get all touchy-feely and shed an e-tear for Price (or anyone else) when it gets a bit critical, they should just scroll on by.

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10-14-2013, 11:44 AM
  #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I posted it last night and deleted the comments because it might be against the site rules, but here is what I posted before I cleared the comments:




Like I said earlier, Thanksgiving kept me from getting examples of Agnostic's double-standards. In a 30 second google search I found two examples.









Agnostic's response to someone using his quantity of shots argument against Halak, Agnostic's response: Halak got a shutout. But doesn't mention that the Blues won 7-0 and Halak had to make 19 big saves the whole game. This is ironic in the context of his argument two pages ago in which he down plays Price's performance last night because of the team's play in the third period.



Here's another beauty where the Habs lost 3-0 to the blues...



Again quantity of shots doesn't factor into Halak's assessment for Agnostic, but when Price doesn't face many shots in one of three periods, it's enough for him to dismiss Price's performance last night. Doesn't mention that habs were completely dominated that game, goaltender performance had little do with the outcome, but it doesn't matter for him, Halak had a shutout making "all the big saves".


Now Price makes 32 saves through two periods of last night game, making multiple big saves and being the only reason why the Habs were in the game at all, but downplays it because the Habs didn't concede many shots in the third. His exact quote:



But when Halak makes 19 saves in a 7-0 win, quantity of shots don't play into the quality of performance, Halak got a shutout, challenging the difficulty of that shutout is an absurdity his in mind.

Again, I'm not surprised. I can give more examples of his double standards if you want, but we've all been on these board long enough to know his M.O. I hate that it has to come down to this petty crap, but the cheap shots and downplaying of Price is enough. Lets not forget his "JimCareyPrice" username and avatar with fingers crossed suggesting that he hopes Price fails. This latter along with all the other petty shots at Price over the last three years is more than enough to know that his posts are usually loaded with biases and attempts to downplay performances.

As for you Ohashi, it's sad to see that despite the quality of posts, your biases against Price force you to support a poster like this.
Good use of the quote button to take a lot of posts out of context or insert your own context. but your assignment was to show where I had claimed that a 13 save shutout was the result of a single player exclusively. Since that post has never occurred might I be expecting a retraction? Or an apology ? you said you could find it but you didn't , you just quoted a number of posts you personally don't agree with to once again obfuscate the fact you were wrong.

Andy you have a lot of nerve commenting on the reputation of members here when all you do is distort information, create strawman arguments , and most recently libel people. Ohashi is correct you peddle hyperbole and can't back it up.

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10-14-2013, 11:54 AM
  #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Good use of the quote button to take a lot of posts out of context or insert your own context. but your assignment was to show where I had claimed that a 13 save shutout was the result of a single player exclusively. Since that post has never occurred might I be expecting a retraction? Or an apology ? you said you could find it but you didn't , you just quoted a number of posts you personally don't agree with to once again obfuscate the fact you were wrong.

Andy you have a lot of nerve commenting on the reputation of members here when all you do is distort information, create strawman arguments , and most recently libel people. Ohashi is correct you peddle hyperbole and can't back it up.
Apology for what? The context is provided in each case, the double standards are clear. You've posted enough times for us to know your position. Everyone calls you out on it.

I'm not the one hurting your reputation, you can blame yourself and your constant Price whining for that.

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10-14-2013, 11:54 AM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Lets not forget his "JimCareyPrice" username
Funny, I couldn't remember who it was that used to be JimCareyPrice. I know you can hover over usernames to see past ones, but I don't keep track of anyone's past usernames (that Sgt. Pepper idiot was the last dude I truly "cared" about, lol), and I don't care what their opinions were about subjects A through Z from past seasons, either. I reply to posts, not monsters I've electronically constructed for myself on an online message board.

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10-14-2013, 12:02 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Here's another for you Ohashi, also for Agnostic. When I brought up the quantity of saves during a SO argument, here was Agnostics response



So we're not allowed to bring up the quantity of shots to discuss Halak's performance, but we can dismiss Price's performance against Vancouver because "Price went almost an entire period without a dangerous shot"<--his words, not mine.
Keep quoting . Just neglect to point out you baked your stats.

Since you are now putting my comments into your own context for a reason unknown to me, the entire Halak thing was raised to show that St.Louis makes big mistakes at critical times and that Montreal does not own that domain exclusively.

On the shots totals which you now hold as a critical metric in goaltending , were you not one of those completely dismissive of montreal's top5 accomplishment in that area last year.

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10-14-2013, 12:08 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Funny, I couldn't remember who it was that used to be JimCareyPrice. I know you can hover over usernames to see past ones, but I don't keep track of anyone's past usernames (that Sgt. Pepper idiot was the last dude I truly "cared" about, lol), and I don't care what their opinions were about subjects A through Z from past seasons, either. I reply to posts, not monsters I've electronically constructed for myself on an online message board.
Though he's been much improved in recent times, Agnostic aka JimCareyPrice aka Earl the Habs Fan, has a significant history. It's not fair to other posters if his clear biases are neglected.

That said, I've been a Price defender but have been very critical of him this season: it happens, we're just hockey fans and we all want the team to win. I'm no longer sure that Price beyond reproach and I think it's fair to ask questions and criticize and analyze.

It's NOT fair to discount every good game he has as a defense win and every bad game he has as only is fault. Only one game with a few bad goals and that was game1.

He's been fine since then.

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10-14-2013, 12:20 PM
  #787
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Hey Andy, the poster Monctonscout used to be named Carey Price. His attitudes have changed.

Attitudes are fluid and based on new information. Some people change , some people dont.

Don't go on about other peoples reputation , it really does make you look worse than you already do. When I care about my brand appeal I will commission a study and advise you accordingly of the results.

Besides I changed my name as a half- joke not realizing This site does not allow you to change it again for a full year. I lived with it and can take the criticism for it.

But my previous user name is not an excuse for you to make a statement you cannot back up, then politic about it using old quotes taken out of context. I realize thats your entire game plan here to save your skin but you're just digging deeper.

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10-14-2013, 12:26 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Hey Andy, the poster monctonscout used to be named Carey Price. His attitudes have changed.

Attitudes are fluid and based on new information. Some people change , some people dont.

Don't go on about other peoples reputation , it really does make you look worse than you already do.


Besides I changed my name as a half- joke not realizing This site does not allow you to change it again for a full year. I lived with it and can take the criticism for it.

But my previous user name is not an excuse for you to make a statement you cannot back up, then politic about it using old quotes taken out of context. I realize thats your entire game plan here to save your skin but you're just digging deeper.
Dig deeper into what? Save what skin?You're the one spewing double standards and hatred in every post. It's a reputation that you brought upon yourself, it's not like I'm the only one that call you out, you get pointed out on this type of stuff almost daily by a host of posters. I provided the context of each of your posts, so there is no taking out of context. If you don't like being called out on it, well that's your problem.

Attitudes change, sure, but you're still the same angry Earl from the Halak-Price debates almost four years ago. Give it a rest and stop trying to find any inch to detract from Price. He played great and the team wouldn't have won had he not stepped up long enough for the Habs to get a fluke goal to put them in the lead. Forget "it's a long-time coming", forget "he didn't receive any shots in the third", forget any of that crap and just admit he played well and no one will attack you. You bring this upon yourself and you'll continue to bring it so long as you act like a poster that still hasn't gotten over seeing his favorite player traded. No one said Price's irreproachable and immune to criticism, but you've taken another level.


Last edited by Andy: 10-14-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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10-14-2013, 12:46 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Dig deeper into what? Save what skin?You're the one spewing double standards and hatred in every post. It's a reputation that you brought upon yourself, it's not like I'm the only one that call you out, you get pointed out on this type of stuff almost daily by a host of posters.

Attitudes change, sure, but you're still the same angry Earl from the Halak-Price debates almost four years ago. Give it a rest and stop trying to find any inch to detract from Price. He played great and the team wouldn't have won had he not stepped up long enough for the Habs to get a fluke goal to put them in the lead. Forget "it's a long-time coming", forget "he didn't receive any shots in the third", forget any of that crap and just admit he played well and no one will attack you. You bring this upon yourself and you'll continue to bring it so long as you act like a poster that still hasn't gotten over seeing his favorite player traded. No one said Price's irreproachable and immune to criticism, but you've taken another level.
You were asked to produce a post you claimed existed. It didn't exist and so you resorted to quoting and posting more nonsense to cover. now the game is character assassination. You have an immense maturity issue and a problem with being (and proven to be) wrong. It gets even worse when your arguments stoop to arguments about your perceptions about member reputation. I would advise you of your own reputation here but I won't risk the infraction. I state my opinions firmly which I can certainly back up, you engage in protracted arguments that become pitiful displays of insecurity.

I am glad Ohashi exposed you, I hope you learn from it and we can all get back to business.

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10-14-2013, 12:47 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Hey Andy, the poster Monctonscout used to be named Carey Price. His attitudes have changed.

Attitudes are fluid and based on new information. Some people change , some people dont.

Don't go on about other peoples reputation , it really does make you look worse than you already do. When I care about my brand appeal I will commission a study and advise you accordingly of the results.

Besides I changed my name as a half- joke not realizing This site does not allow you to change it again for a full year. I lived with it and can take the criticism for it.

But my previous user name is not an excuse for you to make a statement you cannot back up, then politic about it using old quotes taken out of context. I realize thats your entire game plan here to save your skin but you're just digging deeper.
I think that both sides have should share some problems in this debate. And while it might seem as I'm often more on your site than on Andy's in this debate, I would tend to believe that not really giving the praise he deserved against the Nucks makes it a little easy to "attack" you. Price did steal this game as there is NO doubt in my mind that it could have been 3-0 after the 1st. And nobody will make me believe that we could have come back from this. It is a steal no matter even if he would not have stopped one single shot after. Problem is that the did continue making some good saves. But the job was mostly done after the 1st. I mean, for every bit of hate he should/could get, Saturday's game didn't deserve any. I did make a comment about his "technical" aspects after the game but it was mostly an overall comment as I saw during past games, last year and even Saturday....but it didn't change the fact that he saved us from a lost big time. I have no problem analysing a game way past the save%. There's certainly a 20-shot game that was much harder than a 30-shot game. But in Saturday's case, let just give the credit to the guy and move on. I think that most criticisms has never been about Price being able to play like a top 5. Most criticisms were always about him being consistent enough. Not giving him credit for Saturday just read bad faith. And in a grey debate and not black and white, the least we could do is just give it to him as he deserves it. My 2 cents. Do what you want with it....

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10-14-2013, 12:48 PM
  #791
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lol I get called out by mod for name calling but same mod let a flame war goes on? This is ridiculous moderation...

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10-14-2013, 12:53 PM
  #792
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lol I get called out by mod for name calling but same mod let a flame war goes on? This is ridiculous moderation...
Not sure that's going to help.....They do the best they can. I wouldn't do it.

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10-14-2013, 12:55 PM
  #793
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This thread is pretty much a constant exercise of logical fallacies.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/home

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10-14-2013, 12:56 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I think that both sides have should share some problems in this debate. And while it might seem as I'm often more on your site than on Andy's in this debate, I would tend to believe that not really giving the praise he deserved against the Nucks makes it a little easy to "attack" you. Price did steal this game as there is NO doubt in my mind that it could have been 3-0 after the 1st. And nobody will make me believe that we could have come back from this. It is a steal no matter even if he would not have stopped one single shot after. Problem is that the did continue making some good saves. But the job was mostly done after the 1st. I mean, for every bit of hate he should/could get, Saturday's game didn't deserve any. I did make a comment about his "technical" aspects after the game but it was mostly an overall comment as I saw during past games, last year and even Saturday....but it didn't change the fact that he saved us from a lost big time. I have no problem analysing a game way past the save%. There's certainly a 20-shot game that was much harder than a 30-shot game. But in Saturday's case, let just give the credit to the guy and move on. I think that most criticisms has never been about Price being able to play like a top 5. Most criticisms were always about him being consistent enough. Not giving him credit for Saturday just read bad faith. And in a grey debate and not black and white, the least we could do is just give it to him as he deserves it. My 2 cents. Do what you want with it....
I've asked you in the past to give your opinion on the play of other keepers just to provide perspective. I do believe that when we break down the performances of other keepers, we can see where Price excels and where he tends to struggle. When I look at Luongo's goals against, I saw some very stoppable shots. Even on the Habs third goal, I thought Price would have been quicker getting across and might have had a chance on it.

Maybe do both teams goalies each game and we can gather some kind of objective evidence on the league as a whole.

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10-14-2013, 01:02 PM
  #795
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
I've asked you in the past to give your opinion on the play of other keepers just to provide perspective. I do believe that when we break down the performances of other keepers, we can see where Price excels and where he tends to struggle. When I look at Luongo's goals against, I saw some very stoppable shots. Even on the Habs third goal, I thought Price would have been quicker getting across and might have had a chance on it.

Maybe do both teams goalies each game and we can gather some kind of objective evidence on the league as a whole.
With the less shallow nets and shorter pads I'm not sure how the goalies ranks. Quick seems to struggle alot starting the season, but then again, he struggles early in the season every seasons...

Lundqvist is off to a horrible start, with the new rules is he really the best goalie in the NHL anymore?

I'm not all that impressed with Rinne season so far either.

I know Backstrom is injured but he allowed some dubious goals early on as well.

On the other hand, Halak is probably having hte best time since being traded to the Blues.

Bernier has also showed some solid goaltending.

Varlamov has been pretty solid as well.

I'm not sure where Price ranks, I'd like to wait 10-15 more games to have a better idea imo.

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10-14-2013, 01:05 PM
  #796
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I've asked you in the past to give your opinion on the play of other keepers just to provide perspective. I do believe that when we break down the performances of other keepers, we can see where Price excels and where he tends to struggle. When I look at Luongo's goals against, I saw some very stoppable shots. Even on the Habs third goal, I thought Price would have been quicker getting across and might have had a chance on it.

Maybe do both teams goalies each game and we can gather some kind of objective evidence on the league as a whole.
Every goalie has their share of problems. Honestly, it's less and less about the actual play of everybody. More and more about each "fanbase" and how they see things. Going from Price is surely a top 5 to Price should be traded, then logic falls out the window, everybody attacks each other and so on.....You add Price, the myth, who's had had a great pre NHL career, started in this league quite young, everybody is traded to make room for him, it's Montreal, the goalie cemetary....honestly, there's not really anything at this point that will people change their mind. It's the team, it's Price, it's the rest of the league's goalies etc...

Honestly, the only thing that needs to be done for Carey is to go far in the playoffs. He could do immensely great till the end of the year...there will still be doubts about the playoffs. And to be real honest...he could do great in the playoffs, and there will also be doubt about next year and if he continues that way....So really, debate is far from over. And personnally, I hope it stays that was for one reason.....if the debate ends, it means he's traded. And I don't see a really good ending of the story if that happens.

Or mods just decide to close this thread as it's becoming more about posters attacks than Price himself.....Might not be a bad idea. But I'm not a mod.

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10-14-2013, 01:09 PM
  #797
Genesis76
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
I've asked you in the past to give your opinion on the play of other keepers just to provide perspective. I do believe that when we break down the performances of other keepers, we can see where Price excels and where he tends to struggle. When I look at Luongo's goals against, I saw some very stoppable shots. Even on the Habs third goal, I thought Price would have been quicker getting across and might have had a chance on it.

Maybe do both teams goalies each game and we can gather some kind of objective evidence on the league as a whole.
Really dude? Quicker? come on now...



he saw the puck coming he had hes stick rdy ... still went through

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10-14-2013, 01:10 PM
  #798
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So... Carey Price is pretty good, huh guys?








(In other words, let's close this stupid thread)

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10-14-2013, 01:11 PM
  #799
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Really dude? Quicker? come on now...



he saw the puck coming he had hes stick rdy ... still went through
Becuase that is exactly the same situation that he was talking about? amiright?

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10-14-2013, 01:12 PM
  #800
WhiskeySeven
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This thread is pretty much a constant exercise of logical fallacies.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/home
The problem is that two people can look at the exact same save and one says that it was great because he stopped a sure goal and the other says it was bad because the goalie was initially out of position and had to make a desperation save.

That's why discussing sports is so fun, everybody is wrong.

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