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Montreal Dream Team vs. Team Russia Dream Team

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10-07-2013, 08:29 AM
  #1
Darth Joker
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Montreal Dream Team vs. Team Russia Dream Team

After reading this thread, I tried to think of a good challenge for a Montreal Dream Team of their all-time best players. Then I thought back to the famous game between Montreal and the Soviet Red Army. So perhaps the entire country of Russia would be up to the challenge.

So, basically, a Montreal Dream Team comprised of their all-time greats vs. a Team Russia Dream Team comprised of their all-time greats. Let's make it a 8-game Summit Series, with the first four games in the old Montreal Forum and the last four games in Moscow.

What do you think is each team's record after the 8 games? Who wins the Series?

Bonus Question: Does Andrei Markov make both teams?

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10-07-2013, 09:31 AM
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Sentinel
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I have to say Habs. Their defense alone would slaughter the Russians. Tretiak can steal a game and the 1-2-3 wing punch of Kharlamov, Makarov, and Bure can sting, but ultimately it would be something like 6-2 (5-2-1 if ties are allowed).

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10-07-2013, 10:50 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post

Bonus Question: Does Andrei Markov make both teams?
He's not close to making either team.

Edit: I guess you can make an argument for him being a spare on Team Russia


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 10-07-2013 at 11:08 AM.
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10-07-2013, 11:21 AM
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VanIslander
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The Soviets of the late seventies were equal to one of the greatest NHL dynasties.

This is a wash. Of course, with O6 and pre-O6 players to their advantage, the Habs have a slight edge.

There is a lot of good that came from the competitive of real historical games; not much good could come from an all-time pissing contest imo.

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He's not close to making either team.
Word. Markov is a footnote in all-time competition.

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10-07-2013, 11:50 AM
  #5
Hawkey Town 18
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Here's a look at the teams...

Montreal
D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
T. Blake - N. Lalonde - B. Geoffrion
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
J.C. Tremblay - J. Laperriere
B. Bouchard

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR
V. Kharlamov - S. Fedorov - B. Mikhailov
A. Ovechkin - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
V. Krutov - A. Maltsev - P. Bure
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - I. Kovalchuk
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
V. Lutchenko - A. Ragulin
S. Gonchar

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin


I'm sure some will disagree with the lineups I used, but it gives you a general idea. Regardless of any changes one might make, it seems pretty clear that Team Montreal is the better of the two.

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10-07-2013, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Here's a look at the teams...

Montreal
D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
T. Blake - N. Lalonde - B. Geoffrion
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
J.C. Tremblay - J. Laperriere
B. Bouchard

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR
V. Kharlamov - S. Fedorov - B. Mikhailov
A. Ovechkin - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
V. Krutov - A. Maltsev - P. Bure
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - I. Kovalchuk
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
V. Lutchenko - A. Ragulin
S. Gonchar

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin


I'm sure some will disagree with the lineups I used, but it gives you a general idea. Regardless of any changes one might make, it seems pretty clear that Team Montreal is the better of the two.
If I were the coach I would probably use the real life lines

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10-07-2013, 01:09 PM
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Montreal has a clear advantage at the defense and centre position, along with an advantage on right wing and in the starting goalkeeper. Counting back-up goalies the G position becomes a clear advantage as well.

Team Russia has the advantage on LW but in the end it is not very close. 7-1 or maybe 6-2 Montreal.

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10-07-2013, 01:55 PM
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tony d
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Going with Montreal here.

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10-07-2013, 05:34 PM
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Still have to go with the Habs. The Soviet team is no patsies, and in an 8 game series they win a couple of games. Maybe the series is 6-2. But you have to go back to that defense on Montreal. Unreal really. Then the goaltending. The chance that Roy has a bad game you have Plante as a back up? Good night nurse.

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10-07-2013, 05:46 PM
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Doug Harvey and Jacques Plante

Elderly, pre 1967 expansion, Doug Harvey and Jacques Plante played with the Junior Canadiens against touring Soviet Nationals and dominated.

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10-07-2013, 06:05 PM
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It took 2 all time greatest Canada players to beat Soviet team in 1987, and even then KLM line made players like Mark Messier looked as 2nd tier grinders. And I doubt anyone aside from Krutov - Larionov - Makarov Fetisov - Kasatonov could make all time Soviet/Russian team from that Soviet roster. I mean KLM and Mikhailov - Petrov - Kharlamov lines would be enough to tear up anything Montreal could ice.

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10-07-2013, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
It took 2 all time greatest Canada players to beat Soviet team in 1987, and even then KLM line made players like Mark Messier looked as 2nd tier grinders. And I doubt anyone aside from Krutov - Larionov - Makarov Fetisov - Kasatonov could make all time Soviet/Russian team from that Soviet roster. I mean KLM and Mikhailov - Petrov - Kharlamov lines would be enough to tear up anything Montreal could ice.
Messier completely dominated Larionov head to head.

I won't get into the rest

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10-07-2013, 06:22 PM
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Kshahdoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Here's a look at the teams...

Montreal
D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
T. Blake - N. Lalonde - B. Geoffrion
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
J.C. Tremblay - J. Laperriere
B. Bouchard

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR
V. Kharlamov - S. Fedorov - B. Mikhailov
A. Ovechkin - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
V. Krutov - A. Maltsev - P. Bure
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - I. Kovalchuk
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
V. Lutchenko - A. Ragulin
S. Gonchar

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin


I'm sure some will disagree with the lineups I used, but it gives you a general idea. Regardless of any changes one might make, it seems pretty clear that Team Montreal is the better of the two.
Those players would never make all time Soviet/Russian team

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10-07-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Messier completely dominated Larionov head to head.

I won't get into the rest
Yeah, in the NHL, to where Larionov came 29 years old from another world. And on that line he was by far the worst. He'd get in all-time team just because of a chemistry factor. He's a player Makarov and Krutov needed. I hardly imagine a guy like Malkin on that line, even though Malkin is perhaps a better player.

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10-07-2013, 06:38 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Yeah, in the NHL, to where Larionov came 29 years old from another world. And on that line he was by far the worst. He'd get in all-time team just because of a chemistry factor. He's a player Makarov and Krutov needed. I hardly imagine a guy like Malkin on that line, even though Malkin is perhaps a better player.
I was talking about the 1987 Canada Cup where Messier dominated Larionov head to head.

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10-07-2013, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Those players would never make all time Soviet/Russian team
But Malkin would?

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10-07-2013, 06:52 PM
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I'd replace Jacques Laperriere with Sprague Cleghorn and maybe Joe Malone should be considered if for a wing position.

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10-07-2013, 06:55 PM
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I'd replace Jacques Laperriere with Sprague Cleghorn and maybe Joe Malone should be considered if for a wing position.
I guess if people mention Chelios' 6 seasons as a young player, then it's only fair to mention Cleghorn's 4 seasons in his 30s. Both were very good, but probably not at their peaks.

But what's the case for Malone? He played 3 seasons for Montreal, but 2 of them were as a spare.

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10-07-2013, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I was talking about the 1987 Canada Cup where Messier dominated Larionov head to head.
KLM line scored 32 points in 9 games in CC 87 with a pretty average TOI. It was a soviet hockey, where team statistics >>>> personal.

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10-07-2013, 06:56 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
KLM line scored 32 points in 9 games in CC 87 with a pretty average TOI. It was a soviet hockey, where team statistics >>>> personal.
And Messier owned Larionov in the games against Canada.

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10-07-2013, 07:04 PM
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But Malkin would?
Well, Soviet hockey always had great wingers. I mean Ovi got no chances in competition vs players like Yakushev and Firsov. They were as skilled as Ovechkin but 10 times better as teamplayers. Don't forget we're talking about Soviet hockey where team play was above all.

And I'm not honestly sure about Malkin. First two lines would be KLM and Mikhailov - Petrov - Kharlamov. Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny would be the 3rd. And then I'm not sure Geno would be better than Maltsev.

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10-07-2013, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Well, Soviet hockey always had great wingers. I mean Ovi got no chances in competition vs players like Yakushev and Firsov. They were as skilled as Ovechkin but 10 times better as teamplayers. Don't forget we're talking about Soviet hockey where team play was above all.

And I'm not honestly sure about Malkin. First two lines would be KLM and Mikhailov - Petrov - Kharlamov. Bure - Fedorov - Mogilny would be the 3rd. And then I'm not sure Geno would be better than Maltsev.
You think that Ovechkin, who was declared the best player in the modern NHL - an NHL containing all the best players in the world - 4 times by either the players or writers - has "no chance" against someone like Yakushev, who never once won Soviet Player of the Year award (and never finished 2nd)? You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but it really strains your credibility.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 10-07-2013 at 07:11 PM. Reason: writers, not owners, heh
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10-07-2013, 07:19 PM
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You think that Ovechkin, who was declared the best player in the modern NHL - an NHL containing all the best players in the world - 4 times by either the players or writers - has "no chance" against someone like Yakushev, who never once won Soviet Player of the Year award (and never finished 2nd)? You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but it really strains your credibility.
Here here!

Ovechkin would make it. Some of those other NHL russians I don't agree with, but ovechkin makes it.

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10-07-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I guess if people mention Chelios' 6 seasons as a young player, then it's only fair to mention Cleghorn's 4 seasons in his 30s. Both were very good, but probably not at their peaks.

But what's the case for Malone? He played 3 seasons for Montreal, but 2 of them were as a spare.
Malone scored 44 goals in 20 games in 1917-18(still a record and yes diff. era, I know), does it matter for the purposes of this dream team whether they were with the Habs a long time or is it strictly performance based? Chelios won the Norris with the Habs, so I think maybe a Cleghorn-Chelios pairing might edge a Tremblay-Laperriere one in pure talent or at least in a physical, shutdown role as Chelly and Cleghorn were two of the meanest SOB on the ice in their respective careers.

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10-07-2013, 07:26 PM
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Malone scored 44 goals in 20 games in 1917-18(still a record and yes diff. era, I know), does it matter for the purposes of this dream team whether they were with the Habs a long time or is it strictly performance based? Chelios won the Norris with the Habs, so I think maybe a Cleghorn-Chelios pairing might edge a Tremblay-Laperriere one in pure talent.
When Malone scored 44 goals in 1917-18, 2nd place Cy Denney scored 82% as many with 36. By comparison, when Ovechkin scored 65 goals in 2007-08, 2nd place Kovalchuk had 80% as many with 52. Malone's 1917-18 was a great season, but it wasn't historically great as a cursory look at the stats might make it seem.

Agree with you that Cleghorn-Chelios is more talented than Tremblay-Laperriere (and not by a small margin, either). Tenure with the Canadiens is the only issue.

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