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Montreal Dream Team vs. Team Russia Dream Team

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Old
10-09-2013, 11:58 AM
  #51
Sentinel
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Originally Posted by 97980208 View Post
(Hmm... I just noticed my forward lines are very similar to the ones Sentinel picked...)
Except I wouldn't include Mogilny. A huge peak (although some of it has to be attributed to Lafontaine), but the rest of his career is not exactly all time great. Replace him with Yak the Fighter and you are on

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Old
10-09-2013, 01:30 PM
  #52
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Kasparaitis, Konstantinov, Mogilny, Nabokov do not belong on this team. Ovy and Malkin do not yet.

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10-09-2013, 01:35 PM
  #53
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An all-time peer-to-peer team contains Bobrov on offence and Konovalenko as the back up to Tretyak.

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Old
10-09-2013, 01:55 PM
  #54
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I'll have ashot at it

KLM
KPM
Bure-Maltsev-Yakushev
Bobrov-(Dats or Fedorov)-Balderis
Firsov


Fetisov-Kasatonov
Vasiliev-Ragulin
Bil-Lutchenko
Sologubov

Tretyak
Konovalenko

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Old
10-10-2013, 01:48 AM
  #55
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I would play Fedorov on defense.

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Old
10-10-2013, 09:21 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Except I wouldn't include Mogilny. A huge peak (although some of it has to be attributed to Lafontaine), but the rest of his career is not exactly all time great. Replace him with Yak the Fighter and you are on
Yeah, I guess Mogily's peak was pretty limited, right?

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Originally Posted by Den View Post
Kasparaitis, Konstantinov, Mogilny, Nabokov do not belong on this team. Ovy and Malkin do not yet.
Fair enough. Like I said, I'm still learning about some of the earlier generations of Soviet greats.

Actually, I got to thinking that the line-up I posted is a bit mixed up in a sense. I mean, are we going with Soviet or Russian players? If the latter, then my line up is ok (other than the question of who should or shouldn't be included based on skill). But if it's a purely Soviet line-up we're trying to build then in my opinion, Datsyuk, Malkin, and Ovechkin should never be included, as I don't think many people would consider them to be products of the Soviet system -- certainly not direct products.

Anyway, very interesting thread. Even more so since I'm currently reading a book about the '72 Summit Series.

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Old
10-10-2013, 10:13 AM
  #57
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My lineups......

Montreal Canadiens

D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
S. Shutt - N. Lalonde - T. Blake
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
Chelios - J. Laperriere
Geoffrion

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR

V. Krutov - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
A. Mogilny - S. Fedorov - P. Bure
V. Kharlamov - B. Mikhailov - A. Ovechkin
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - A. Maltsev
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
S. Gonchar - A. Ragulin
V. Konstantinov

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin

Believe it or not but I think Russia wins the series based on chemistry. The top 2 lines are world-class, proven talent with innate experience dominating together.

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Old
10-10-2013, 11:17 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
V. Kharlamov - B. Mikhailov - A. Ovechkin
No centers

Quote:
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - A. Maltsev
Three centers.

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Old
10-10-2013, 11:19 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
No centers. Three centers.
Ha. I would play Mikhailov at center. The dude could do anything. In his role on my "team", he would be in charge of shadowing the other team's center, intimidate and feed the puck to his winged snipers. He would thrive in this role.

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Old
10-10-2013, 12:04 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
My lineups......

Montreal Canadiens

D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
S. Shutt - N. Lalonde - T. Blake
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
Chelios - J. Laperriere
Geoffrion

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR

V. Krutov - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
A. Mogilny - S. Fedorov - P. Bure
V. Kharlamov - B. Mikhailov - A. Ovechkin
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - A. Maltsev
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
S. Gonchar - A. Ragulin
V. Konstantinov

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin

Believe it or not but I think Russia wins the series based on chemistry. The top 2 lines are world-class, proven talent with innate experience dominating together.
Some issues with your Habs team:

-Blake is a left winger.
-Geoffrion is a RW, not a defenseman.
-Unless you’re going for a “shutdown line”, Gainey shouldn’t be on the team. If you are going for a shutdown line, Provost should be the RW.
-If chemistry is an issue, then you can move players around a bit to create actual combos/lines that played together.

Try this:

Moore-Beliveau-Geoffrion
Blake-Lach-Richard
Joliat-Morenz-Cournoyer
Shutt-Richard-Lafleur
Lalonde

Harvey-Lapointe
Savard-Robinson
Chelios-Cleghorn
Laperriere

Plante
Roy
Dryden


Last edited by JaymzB: 10-11-2013 at 05:58 AM.
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Old
10-11-2013, 02:35 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Ha. I would play Mikhailov at center. The dude could do anything. In his role on my "team", he would be in charge of shadowing the other team's center, intimidate and feed the puck to his winged snipers. He would thrive in this role.
Firstly, Mikhailov couldn't win a faceoff to save his life! If ever Petrov was unable, it was Kharlamov who took & and sometimes even won faceoffs. Mikhailov, I bet he lost 100-0 all the faceoffs he ever was involved in (at least he did the few I've seen).

In a way, Mikhailov was the Soviet Bobby Clarke ('instigator'), but IMO would be too valuable as a goal-scorer/slot man to be used in other roles.

I don't see any reason to break up the Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov line. But it's "your team" of course.

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Old
10-11-2013, 09:27 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by VMBM View Post
I don't see any reason to break up the Mikhailov-Petrov-Kharlamov line. But it's "your team" of course.
I just hired you as my assistant coach. We'll discuss line match ups further in the coaches office.... can't tip our hand in a public forum.

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Old
10-11-2013, 09:30 AM
  #63
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No kidding Mikhailov couldn't win faceoffs! He was also great along the boards. Not exactly a center quality. The only thing he had that would make him a center was his passing and his vision, but he was a much, much better winger than he would ever be a center. But, of course every Soviet coach, from Tarasov to Tikhonov, was wrong, and Mikhailov could well play center. Sheesh...

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Old
10-12-2013, 03:05 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
I just hired you as my assistant coach. We'll discuss line match ups further in the coaches office.... can't tip our hand in a public forum.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
No kidding Mikhailov couldn't win faceoffs! He was also great along the boards. Not exactly a center quality. The only thing he had that would make him a center was his passing and his vision, but he was a much, much better winger than he would ever be a center. But, of course every Soviet coach, from Tarasov to Tikhonov, was wrong, and Mikhailov could well play center. Sheesh...
Yes, I don't remember a single tournament/game where he would've been in that role - if we exclude crappy Hollywood films (*cough* Miracle! *cough*). Heck, even Kharlamov played center in the 1976 World Championships - or at least he started off as the faceoff man on the forward line with Mikhailov and Maltsev:


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Old
10-12-2013, 03:09 AM
  #65
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Just saw a couple of Dynamo Moscow and Dynamo Riga vs NHL games in the 80's... Gees, they had talent. Svetlov was amazing. And most of that generation went down the drain after their early-mid 20 eather having to survive the 90's or sucumbing to the pains of adjusting in NA. These players had no business of playing in NA IMHO - many of them of smaller size (Znarok, Borshevsky), absolutely not their style. Tatarinov was such a promise - a then ushh, injuries -> wild 90's -> murdur -> prison. Petrenko, Semenov, Lomakin, Semak - if they all continued to play in "normal conditions", they could have been big players in the 90's. They had no business of going over the pond at the age of 27...

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Old
08-19-2014, 11:28 AM
  #66
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Quote:
1. Viacheslav Fetisov

2. Vladislav Tretiak

3. Valery Kharlamov

4. Anatoly Firsov

5. Alexander Maltsev

6. Sergei Fedorov

7. Valery Vasiliev

8 Vsevolod Bobrov

9. Sergei Makarov

10. Pavel Bure
http://www.1972summitseries.com/toptenrussians.html

If you were drafting the Team Russia Dream Team, is this the first 10 players you would take? TDMM?

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Old
08-19-2014, 11:45 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Here's a look at the teams...

Montreal
D. Moore - J. Beliveau - M. Richard
A. Joliat - H. Morenz - G. Lafleur
T. Blake - N. Lalonde - B. Geoffrion
B. Gainey - H. Richard - Y. Cournoyer
E. Lach

D. Harvey - L. Robinson
G. Lapointe - S. Savard
J.C. Tremblay - J. Laperriere
B. Bouchard

P. Roy
J. Plante
K. Dryden


Russia/USSR
V. Kharlamov - S. Fedorov - B. Mikhailov
A. Ovechkin - I. Larionov - S. Makarov
V. Krutov - A. Maltsev - P. Bure
E. Malkin - P. Datsyuk - I. Kovalchuk
V. Petrov

V. Fetisov - A. Kasatonov
V. Vasiliev - S. Zubov
V. Lutchenko - A. Ragulin
S. Gonchar

V. Tretiak
E. Nabokov
N. Khabibulin


I'm sure some will disagree with the lineups I used, but it gives you a general idea. Regardless of any changes one might make, it seems pretty clear that Team Montreal is the better of the two.
Since this is just a fantasy exercise, let's assume all players are in their prime...

Denis Savard, John LeClair and Chris Chelios would be on Montreal

Konstantinov, Mogilny and Kovalev should likely find their way onto the Russian squad


Last edited by Copmuter: 08-19-2014 at 06:06 PM.
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Old
08-19-2014, 03:08 PM
  #68
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Yakushev was a bit like Shane Doan and Ryan Smyth. He wasn't really that great in his league play, but he had an ability to turn it on for international competition. He'd be good for this game.

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Old
08-19-2014, 04:58 PM
  #69
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Nice work Gang. All I can say is any number of these line~ups, make for an incredible game or preferably fully 7 Game Series!.

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Old
08-19-2014, 05:56 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
I would play Fedorov on defense.
Me too. That's a winning move. But I wonder how many non-Red Wings fans would agree...

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Old
08-19-2014, 07:48 PM
  #71
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Howie Morenz and Guy LaFleur would be 2nd liners. Seems like Montreal is an easy choice here. Tretiak could easily steala game or 2, but I think 5-2-1 seems like an accurate call.

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Old
08-20-2014, 06:10 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Den View Post
Kasparaitis, Konstantinov, Mogilny, Nabokov do not belong on this team. Ovy and Malkin do not yet.
Quite right about the first four.

Malkin and Ovechkin, however, are both 28 years old. Vladimir Krutov had his last useful season at 29. Kharlamov at 32. Is that really the difference between playing on the top line, and not making the team?

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Old
08-20-2014, 06:30 AM
  #73
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I think people might be over-romanticizing the old time Soviets. To suggest Ovechkin doesn't belong on a four-line team is ridiculous. He's close to overtaking Makarov.

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Old
08-20-2014, 06:56 AM
  #74
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Team Soviet would take the series. The chemistry of those lines would simply be too much to contain.

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Old
08-20-2014, 08:02 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Messier completely dominated Larionov head to head.

I won't get into the rest
Larionov was injured in those games and clearly played under his normal standard. One should not compare the two based on those games.

I'd say Gretzky was the dominant forward on the ice during those games, followed by Krutov and Makarov. A young Mario Lemieux was good in that he scored many goals. Messier was OK, as was Gilmour, but the Soviets had equally good forwards in Semenov, Bykov and Khomutov.

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