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Peter Laviolette, fired |Craig Berube new head coach (two-year contract, per Tim P.)

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Old
10-08-2013, 02:57 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Ironically I felt the same with Richards when Hitch was here....I also hated how he would bench Williams.

Lavi was starting to become the Doug Collins of the Flyers with respect to how he handled rookies...
In my opinion, Hitch was way worse in regards to his treatment of young players. He ran Sharp out of town because he refused to play him in any sort of top nine role. The best thing that ever happened to Richards and Carter was the Hitchcock firing/Stevens hiring. It allowed them to make the mistakes that young players make without the axe coming down at any moment. If anything, Stevens being around for then beginning and then having a coach like Hitch instead of Lavy would have worked out better. (And yes, I'm aware that Hitch has had limited success since the 04-05 lockout)

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10-08-2013, 03:00 PM
  #627
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In my opinion, Hitch was way worse in regards to his treatment of young players. He ran Sharp out of town because he refused to play him in any sort of top nine role. The best thing that ever happened to Richards and Carter was the Hitchcock firing/Stevens hiring. It allowed them to make the mistakes that young players make without the axe coming down at any moment. If anything, Stevens being around for then beginning and then having a coach like Hitch instead of Lavy would have worked out better. (And yes, I'm aware that Hitch has had limited success since the 04-05 lockout)
Playing Savage and Radivojevic over Sharp, and giving them loads of TOI and Sharp non at all used to piss me off so much!

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10-08-2013, 03:15 PM
  #628
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Playing Savage and Radivojevic over Sharp, and giving them loads of TOI and Sharp non at all used to piss me off so much!
Oh yeah, I remember just losing my mind when Hitch would bench Sharp for trying to accomplish anything on offense, short of dump and chase. Of all the trades that the Clarke/Homer era that get talked about to death around here, that one should be the one that stings the most. Sharp developed into perhaps the most versatile forward in the NHL who can also still pot 30 goals every year. He would look so awesome playing shotgun to Giroux, I know that. Freakin Matt Ellison... or whatever the hell his name was.

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10-08-2013, 03:23 PM
  #629
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The Sharp trade was a huge mistake.

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10-08-2013, 03:31 PM
  #630
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The Sharp trade sucked, however, who knows if he would still be here even if he broke out.

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10-08-2013, 06:04 PM
  #631
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Well there goes all of the optimism, now the team sucks, the coach got fired, if the replacement doesn't work, the GM will get fired.

Hey, when do people start blaming the players for being ******?
well first off, I won't even give care to hear a comment from someone whom can't even spell Heisenberg right. Secondly, we've changed players, we've changed goalies, we've changed defense, we've changed lines, I think we've exhausted our options on switching players around. At that point, it's not the players fault, it's the coach. You've got it backwards. I'm not saying Lavy sucks, I'm saying his style is just not working anymore. When he first came in, he was a breath of fresh air - his style really got the players going, but that's not the case anymore.

Seems like your comment is not vaild. And in case you haven't noticed, the players have gotten plenty of blame on gameday boards. So, **** off

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10-08-2013, 06:31 PM
  #632
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Working off the Twitter comment "Berube is fiery coach & he expects Flyers game to be intense..." citing Versteeg, it will be interesting to see how Berube one-ups Laviolette's Coke machine smash. Will the truck get it?

A ref.

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10-08-2013, 06:35 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
Working off the Twitter comment "Berube is fiery coach & he expects Flyers game to be intense..." citing Versteeg, it will be interesting to see how Berube one-ups Laviolette's Coke machine smash. Will the truck get it?



He'll go to the source.

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10-08-2013, 08:55 PM
  #634
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He'll go to the source.

Is that the coke factory that we have here in Vegas?

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10-08-2013, 09:15 PM
  #635
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Paul Holmgren handed Peter Laviolette a set of square pegs, and Laviolette tried to fit them into circle-shaped holes. The young players lacked the experience, knowledge, and discipline to play within Laviolette’s system, and Laviolette was not the kind of coach that could teach them the skills they needed. He was doomed to fail when Holmgren traded away the two franchise cornerstones. The result was what Flyers fans saw the first three games, a team that stopped responding to their coach, and had what Ed Snider called the worst preseason he’d seen of any Flyers team in their 47 years of existence.

Even though Laviolette was dealt a set of cards that didn't fit his plans, he cannot be absolved of all the blame. Particularly against the New York Rangers and New Jersey Devils, he failed to make any in-game adjustments to adjust to their hard two-man forecheck. John Tortorella and Peter DeBoer outcoached him on a regular basis in important head-to-head matchups. They would send in two men hard on the forecheck, and the Flyers defense struggled mightily to break the puck out. Instead of having the forwards sink lower to support the defense on the breakout, Laviolette stuck with his system that clearly wasn't working, and the result was a multitude of turnovers in the defensive zone and an inability to break the puck out effectively.

Those problems were compounded when Chris Pronger suffered a career-ending injury, and the severely underrated Matt Carle left via free agency while Holmgren was fixated on signing Ryan Suter. None of their puck-moving ability and breakout prowess was replaced by new acquisitions, and the result was the sixth worst even strength team in the NHL last year. Most of that is on Holmgren, but part of it is still on Laviolette for not making adjustments to accommodate the talent he was given.

The similarities to 2006-07 are striking. A team that many predicted would be a playoff contender starts off terribly, fires their system-oriented, rigid coach, and hires a familiar face that the players love and admire. Can Craig Berube be “John Stevens” to Couturier and Schenn like Stevens was to Richards and Carter? If you ask me, that’s the biggest thing that this firing could change. The defense is what it is, immobile and aging. The goaltending still appears to be a question mark, although Steve Mason has played well so far.

Berube and Stevens are not exactly the same, however. All indications are that the players are willing to fight tooth and nail for Berube like they were for Stevens, but Berube has a much more in-your-face approach. If you aren’t meeting the expectations that Berube has for you, he has no qualms about sitting you down on the bench, whether you’re Claude Giroux or Jay Rosehill.

Very rarely do you find a coach that can develop young talent, but also effectively integrate them into their system at the same time. The coaches that do that are the all-time greats. Can Berube do both? My gut says no, I see him as a more intense John Stevens that will help develop the younger players on the team, but not necessarily be able to implement the systems necessary to take the team from talented to a cup contender. Look for more analysis on Berube in my next article.
http://www.ourhometown.ca/hockey/HH0226.php

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10-08-2013, 09:45 PM
  #636
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10-08-2013, 09:49 PM
  #637
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"severely underrated Matt Carle"


stopped reading.

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10-08-2013, 09:57 PM
  #638
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"severely underrated Matt Carle"


stopped reading.
If we had Matt Carle we would be 4-0 right now!

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10-08-2013, 10:15 PM
  #639
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Originally Posted by SuchySays View Post
"severely underrated Matt Carle"


stopped reading.
That's generally the kill-switch for any article I'm reading.

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Old
10-08-2013, 10:46 PM
  #640
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hahaaa Matt Carle.


hahaaa that is all

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10-08-2013, 10:47 PM
  #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchySays View Post
"severely underrated Matt Carle"

stopped reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
That's generally the kill-switch for any article I'm reading.
Notice that from 2011-2012 and 2012-2013, our even strength play went from 7th in the league to 6th worst? What changed? Pronger was hurt for essentially all of 11-12 so his 13 games don't matter. Matt Carle left, and Grossmann joined at the end of 11-12. We seriously miss Matt Carle's ability to break the puck out at even strength. Over the past three seasons, Matt Carle has 81 even strength points in 212 games. Some comparables:

Mark Streit: 67 in 212 games
Kris Letang: 75 in 168 games
Zdeno Chara: 74 in 208 games
Drew Doughty: 60 in 201 games
Brian Campbell: 53 in 195 games
Alex Pietrangelo: 71 in 207 games
Duncan Keith: 63 in 203 games

Matt Carle is an extremely good even strength point producer. He's very underrated in that regard. BSH was onto something in their defense of him. They went way too far trying to say he was basically Ryan Suter, Suter is much better and should have won the Norris last year. But we sorely miss Matt Carle on this team.

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10-08-2013, 11:04 PM
  #642
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WTF?

Not sure what is more terrible..the costume or commentary....


BTW it's Holmgren..not Holmgrem

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10-08-2013, 11:08 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Notice that from 2011-2012 and 2012-2013, our even strength play went from 7th in the league to 6th worst? What changed? Pronger was hurt for essentially all of 11-12 so his 13 games don't matter. Matt Carle left, and Grossmann joined at the end of 11-12. We seriously miss Matt Carle's ability to break the puck out at even strength. Over the past three seasons, Matt Carle has 81 even strength points in 212 games. Some comparables:

Mark Streit: 67 in 212 games
Kris Letang: 75 in 168 games
Zdeno Chara: 74 in 208 games
Drew Doughty: 60 in 201 games
Brian Campbell: 53 in 195 games
Alex Pietrangelo: 71 in 207 games
Duncan Keith: 63 in 203 games

Matt Carle is an extremely good even strength point producer. He's very underrated in that regard. BSH was onto something in their defense of him. They went way too far trying to say he was basically Ryan Suter, Suter is much better and should have won the Norris last year. But we sorely miss Matt Carle on this team.
Carle got way too much unreasonable hate on these boards.....

Wasn't his biggest fan but I do think he was under appreciated for what he brought to the team. I know Lavi valued him a lot and was ideal for his system. Say what you will...but letting him go on the open market and letting him walk along with Jagr and then getting poor substitutes did impact this team last season. It was another of HolmgreM's miscalcs....

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10-09-2013, 02:12 AM
  #644
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Notice that from 2011-2012 and 2012-2013, our even strength play went from 7th in the league to 6th worst? What changed? Pronger was hurt for essentially all of 11-12 so his 13 games don't matter. Matt Carle left, and Grossmann joined at the end of 11-12. We seriously miss Matt Carle's ability to break the puck out at even strength. Over the past three seasons, Matt Carle has 81 even strength points in 212 games. Some comparables:

Mark Streit: 67 in 212 games
Kris Letang: 75 in 168 games
Zdeno Chara: 74 in 208 games
Drew Doughty: 60 in 201 games
Brian Campbell: 53 in 195 games
Alex Pietrangelo: 71 in 207 games
Duncan Keith: 63 in 203 games

Matt Carle is an extremely good even strength point producer. He's very underrated in that regard. BSH was onto something in their defense of him. They went way too far trying to say he was basically Ryan Suter, Suter is much better and should have won the Norris last year. But we sorely miss Matt Carle on this team.
The team produced less points at even strength when Carle was on the ice. Actually, almost every defenseman saw better production per 60 minutes. That actually lines up nicely with what I saw; namely, that defending Carle was hilariously simple. No goalie worried about his shot...if it even got through without being blocked it was an easy save. So, his biggest threat was the pass. Without Pronger to pass to on the other side that's not much of a threat either. In his last season here teams cut off all but two passing lanes, leaving him with his partner and a winger. Combine that with Lavi not telling him to do anything differently, and towards the end of the year teams knew exactly how to pressure Carle to maximize his liability in the offensive zone.

Seriously, Carle is terribly overrated. He accumulated his points through sheer, bulk ice time. He got ice time because there was simply nobody else to play. Any competent offensive dman who could do more than pass out of his own zone and could be an actual threat in the offensive zone put up better numbers.

On top of that he can't deal with strong competition defensively. We already have a better player in Streit, and TB fans already lament Carle.

As far as the change at even strength, don't forget the coach's complete inability/unwillingness to change his system, the ****show in net affecting the rest of the team, and Briere's implosion leaving us without a 2C are greater factors for the team's decline in offense than losing Carle's one trick. Drop Carle on the team last year and there is little to no change, especially since a big part of the problem with the breakout isn't solved by the dman passing...the team was clumping together along the boards too often and failing to even get through the neutral zone, even if the pass hit them there. Once the dmen made the pass, the turnover was forced at the forward who received it. Carle doesn't fix that...that's something Lavi would have needed to address and he didn't.

People who stare only at point production without looking deeper into his stats or looking at his actual play and the long-term, persistent trends one could easily observe are prone to overrating Carle; meaning, many journalists and fans of other teams. What he actually is, is an above average first pass guy who is either average or below average at the other aspects...including offensive zone and PP play, which are red flags for an offensive dman. He's strictly a complementary guy, and we already had too many of them last season.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 10-09-2013 at 02:25 AM.
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Old
10-09-2013, 02:24 AM
  #645
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Similarly to what Beef says, Matt Carle basically amounts to passing plays because his shot is one of the most non-threatening shots possible and his skating ability as well as foot speed aren't anything special.

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10-09-2013, 07:19 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
WTF?

Not sure what is more terrible..the costume or commentary....


BTW it's Holmgren..not Holmgrem
His voice

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Old
10-09-2013, 07:33 AM
  #647
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"severely underrated Matt Carle"


stopped reading.
He's going to remain underrated as long as people choose to ignore how good he is.

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10-09-2013, 07:50 AM
  #648
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If Carle is a number 1 or 2 on your team, you're in trouble. If you let him play as a complementary defenseman, you're fine. Our puck movement in our own zone leaves a lot to be desired, and he was a good first-pass player.

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10-09-2013, 07:57 AM
  #649
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The battle has now moved to the Tampa Bay boards. And I don't think anyone is going to convince them he is worth $5.5 million a year.

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10-09-2013, 09:32 AM
  #650
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http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...227002241.html

Don't know if anyone wants to read it but interesting take. This Mike guy seems to be straight attacking the Flyers "goon" culture. Don't read the comments in you don't want to read new age and old age fans segueing.

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