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Peter Laviolette, fired |Craig Berube new head coach (two-year contract, per Tim P.)

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Old
10-09-2013, 01:24 PM
  #676
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Carle is a really good player when playing next to Pronger. Take that away and he's a mediocre player.
He's really good as a complementary player to a franchise defenseman. He just cannot lead or carry a pairing on his own, which isn't acceptable at his cap hit. Homer was right to let him go instead of overpaying him.

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10-09-2013, 01:32 PM
  #677
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Carle is leading Tampa in ATOI again at 23:31 and is one of the shot leaders suprisingly in 3 games played (8 SOG).

I know the ice time will be argued as being part of the problem with Carle but yet they have a new coach and he still continues to receive heavy honest minutes. I don't see how that is a negative if coaches continue to show confidence in him. I also don't think it's b/c they have no other choice.

Finally, I'm not sure I would characterize him as mediocre without Pronger....he is above average as a player IMO. Also, being physically reliable for the most part year after year should count for something..

Is he overpaid..sure (market dictated it) ...but again sometimes you have to do it to fill a need regardless. Streit is an example and I'm not sold that Streit will be that much better than Carle and as the season goes on will be more of a liability defensively than Carle ever was. The offensive "potential" is nice but will it be like a Briere situation where the defensive lapses far exceed the contributions on the offensive side? So far I have been underwhelmed with Streit...if anything he has been mediocre and for the money and term he received that is definitely not a good ROI..


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10-09-2013, 01:36 PM
  #678
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8 of the worst shots the team has taken, I have no doubt.

And yeah, TB has no choice. Their D is weak. As I and others have said, if Carle is your TOI leader for defensemen it means you don't have a D corps good enough to make a run with.

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10-09-2013, 01:37 PM
  #679
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8 of the worst shots the team has taken, I have no doubt.

And yeah, TB has no choice. Their D is weak.
Hey at least they were on net....

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10-09-2013, 01:38 PM
  #680
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He's really good as a complementary player to a franchise defenseman. He just cannot lead or carry a pairing on his own, which isn't acceptable at his cap hit. Homer was right to let him go instead of overpaying him.
Agreed on all accounts

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10-09-2013, 01:44 PM
  #681
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Speaking of Flyers beat writers...I guess Hartnell's not too fond of them either.

Kevin Cooney ‏@KevinCooney 3h
Even in victory, Flyers seem to keep slipping from reality http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.c...00cecc46c.html

Scott Hartnell ‏@Hartsy19 17m
@KevinCooney stick to baseball bud-haven’t seen u in a hockey rink in 7 years. #thanksfortheconfidence

Kevin Cooney ‏@KevinCooney 13m
@Hartsy19 Hi Scott... its just an opinion. I don't say that I am always right. If you guys prove me wrong, I'll say so.

11:28 AM - 9 Oct 13

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10-09-2013, 01:49 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
Speaking of Flyers beat writers...I guess Hartnell's not too fond of them either.

Kevin Cooney ‏@KevinCooney 3h
Even in victory, Flyers seem to keep slipping from reality http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.c...00cecc46c.html

Scott Hartnell ‏@Hartsy19 17m
@KevinCooney stick to baseball bud-havenít seen u in a hockey rink in 7 years. #thanksfortheconfidence

Kevin Cooney ‏@KevinCooney 13m
@Hartsy19 Hi Scott... its just an opinion. I don't say that I am always right. If you guys prove me wrong, I'll say so.

11:28 AM - 9 Oct 13
Hey Scotty..score some goals!

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10-09-2013, 01:52 PM
  #683
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I am OK with this on one level.

On another I have little doubt the media will declare jihad and try to turn this into a raging distraction to soothe their own childish, under-evolved neanderthal egos. Then once they've helped make the team worse they'll pat themselves on the back. What a bunch of slobs.

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10-09-2013, 01:56 PM
  #684
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Cooney is awful at baseball, why even bothering to chime in on the Flyers is almost begging for a hassle

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10-09-2013, 01:56 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I am OK with this on one level.

On another I have little doubt the media will declare jihad and try to turn this into a raging distraction to soothe their own childish, under-evolved neanderthal egos. Then once they've helped make the team worse they'll pat themselves on the back. What a bunch of slobs.
Once again....Hartnell shouldn't play into it. Didn't we make that argument about Bryz and how he needed to look at himself in the mirror instead of pointing finger at the media, space etc?

This is the problem with this Twitter culture...I kind of agree with Torts. I would grab Hartnell's iPhone or iPad or whatever device he is using to engage in his tweet war with the media and throw it against the wall. Tell him to go practice scoring some goals. I know I sound like an "angry bird" but this is getting ridiculous..


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10-09-2013, 02:03 PM
  #686
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These horrid articles are not worth a response and Hartnell should have ignored it. I do admit when I read one I do want to punch someone or something.

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10-09-2013, 02:07 PM
  #687
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The war with the media is getting old

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10-09-2013, 02:17 PM
  #688
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Once again....Hartnell shouldn't play into it. Didn't we make that argument about Bryz and how he needed to look at himself in the mirror instead of pointing finger at the media, space etc?

This is the problem with this Twitter culture...I kind of agree with Torts. I would grab Hartnell's iPhone or iPad or whatever device he is using to engage in his tweet war with the media and throw it against the wall. Tell him to go practice scoring some goals. I know I sound like an "angry bird" but this is getting ridiculous..
Hartnell is fighting back against idiocy. By embarassing someone for writing something bad, he might encourage them to employ a bit of critical thinking.

Bryz did nothing of the sort, he fed them crap by playing the "woe is me" routine.

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10-09-2013, 02:19 PM
  #689
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I really don't see what the big problem is with that article or that side argument with Hartnell. They're both pretty spot-on even if combative.

The Flyers haven't changed their philosophy for a long while now and we always do have some useless goon on our team constantly and consistently. Rosehill doesn't make or break our team but he almost single-handedly destroyed our win last night and beyond that he provides no use even with him not doing stupid things. Might as well be playing with 11 forwards for all intents and purposes so why not dump or bench him and improve our roster?

The guy is probably going about it the wrong way but I appreciate that someone in the media is being as honest as the fans are with the situation. If we all agree with his basic premise I don't know how you can all unanimously hate it.

As for the argument with Hartnell, a guy made an inappropriate comment on twitter that had some truth to it. Hartnell didn't need to respond. Professionalism is required just as much out of the players and staff as anyone else and between the Berube "Get lost" comment and that Hartnell reaction there's little professionalism to be found.

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10-09-2013, 02:21 PM
  #690
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Hartnell is fighting back against idiocy. By embarassing someone for writing something bad, he might encourage them to employ a bit of critical thinking.

Bryz did nothing of the sort, he fed them crap by playing the "woe is me" routine.
Fighting back? Seriously? This is childish.....just ignore them. People are giving these reporters way more power than they have. You are actually empowering them by engaging them. To suggest you are going to scare them from doing their jobs is laughable...

The only way to stop them is to deny them access but then that gets into legal problems..just like when the Flyers put a gag order on Bryz.

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10-09-2013, 02:22 PM
  #691
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I don't agree that the Flyers haven't changed, yea, they may sign an enforcer, but the team you see right now isn't the "bullies" that were in the 70s,80s,90s or whatever. yes, you have some "physical" players, but every team does.

Most writers cherry pick what they need to validate their story. I mean the even on defense, only Grossman/Schenn are considered stay at home d-men who can't skate. Timonen/Streit/Coburn/Mesz are all average to above average skaters. And the d in the pipeline are similar.

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10-09-2013, 02:26 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Hartnell is fighting back against idiocy. By embarassing someone for writing something bad, he might encourage them to employ a bit of critical thinking.

Bryz did nothing of the sort, he fed them crap by playing the "woe is me" routine.
I'm surprised to hear you siding with the organization on this one. Usually I agree with you.

The media is always going to be the media regardless of whether there's truth to what's being said or not (and in both cases this time there was some truth to it). The media isn't part of the organization nor being paid millions of dollars (to under perform no less...). The staff, front office, and players are. This isn't some kind of hockey game where we can make some loose argument that standing up to a player is going to change things. If the players or management mess with the media like they have been it comes off as unprofessional and feeds into it more then anything.

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I don't agree that the Flyers haven't changed, yea, they may sign an enforcer, but the team you see right now isn't the "bullies" that were in the 70s,80s,90s or whatever. yes, you have some "physical" players, but every team does.

Most writers cherry pick what they need to validate their story. I mean the even on defense, only Grossman/Schenn are considered stay at home d-men who can't skate. Timonen/Streit/Coburn/Mesz are all average to above average skaters. And the d in the pipeline are similar.
That's because if any team played even remotely close to the bullies today they would be in the penalty box literally all the time.

The Flyers haven't changed in that they usually go in-house for a lot of front office and staff positions, Snider is still being Snider, they always seem to sign some useless goon(s) and sometimes to a ridiculous contract while giving them two minutes of ice-time every game, and tend to give too much leeway to certain people.

You also have to admit that the whole "Flyers hockey" concept of hitting everything that moves and being tough is pretty much ingrained within the Flyers culture at this point from the fans upward.

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10-09-2013, 02:38 PM
  #693
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The media will always be the media, but you can discredit them as best you can to prevent them from becoming a distraction.

Richards was shredded by the media because he didn't assert himself effectively. That's what it's like in Philly. If you can't put the media in their place, they will exploit your attitude and jump all over you with any chance they have.

Could they ever do that to Pronger?

It's the difference between being proactive and reactive. The more you condescend the blowhards in the media now, the less their word means tomorrow. I'm all for making these guys look and feel as stupid as possible.

Like I said in the other thread, the media is a part of the game here in Philly. You can't just cut it out and ignore it. You have to deal with it effectively.

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10-09-2013, 02:40 PM
  #694
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That's because if any team played even remotely close to the bullies today they would be in the penalty box literally all the time.

The Flyers haven't changed in that they usually go in-house for a lot of front office and staff positions, Snider is still being Snider, they always seem to sign some useless goon(s) and sometimes to a ridiculous contract while giving them two minutes of ice-time every game, and tend to give too much leeway to certain people.

You also have to admit that the whole "Flyers hockey" concept of hitting everything that moves and being tough is pretty much ingrained within the Flyers culture at this point from the fans upward.
I think the reason he sticks with in house (Clarke & Holmgren) is because they've been fairly successful, since 95(?) they've made the playoffs a ton of times, went to the cup twice, went to the ECF 3 or 4 times. Have they won the cup? No, but its not like these two were colossal failures. Plus the coaching thing is odd, they've gone outside most of the time for their coaches, so I'm not getting that argument at all either.

I mean for god sakes, the Phillies just walked Ryne Sandberg up to take over for Manuel, where is the outrage?

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10-09-2013, 02:43 PM
  #695
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The media will always be the media, but you can discredit them as best you can to prevent them from becoming a distraction.

Richards was shredded by the media because he didn't assert himself effectively. That's what it's like in Philly. If you can't put the media in their place, they will exploit your attitude and jump all over you with any chance they have.

Could they ever do that to Pronger?

It's the difference between being proactive and reactive. The more you condescend the blowhards in the media now, the less their word means tomorrow. I'm all for making these guys look and feel as stupid as possible.

Like I said in the other thread, the media is a part of the game here in Philly. You can't just cut it out and ignore it. You have to deal with it effectively.
It takes a twisted thought process to think arguing with the media and acting unprofessional is the definition of "dealing with it effectively".

Again, following your logic there shouldn't be people like this around yet there are. For every team.

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I think the reason he sticks with in house (Clarke & Holmgren) is because they've been fairly successful, since 95(?) they've made the playoffs a ton of times, went to the cup twice, went to the ECF 3 or 4 times. Have they won the cup? No, but its not like these two were colossal failures. Plus the coaching thing is odd, they've gone outside most of the time for their coaches, so I'm not getting that argument at all either.

I mean for god sakes, the Phillies just walked Ryne Sandberg up to take over for Manuel, where is the outrage?
Clarke and Homer are good mixed with bad. Whether it's been successful or not is arguable, especially as of late.

I don't follow baseball so that part doesn't mean anything to me.

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10-09-2013, 02:43 PM
  #696
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I hadn't heard of Mike Sielski until Monday's press conference. Not sure if he's just trying to piss off Flyers fans to get a little bit of notice or if he's just this thick headed.

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10-09-2013, 02:46 PM
  #697
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It takes a twisted thought process to think arguing with the media and acting unprofessional is the definition of "dealing with it effectively".

Again, following your logic there shouldn't be people like this around yet there are. For every team.



Clarke and Homer are good mixed with bad. Whether it's been successful or not is arguable, especially as of late.

I don't follow baseball so that part doesn't mean anything to me.
I can't wait till Berube scares off the press corps so effectively nobody shows up to ask questions.....99.9% sure that will never happen.

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10-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #698
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I can't wait till Berube scares off the press corps so effectively nobody shows up to ask questions.....99.9% sure that will never happen.
It's not scaring the press. It's discrediting the press, so that when they dole out their daily BS, it means absolutely nothing to the fans or the team.

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10-09-2013, 02:52 PM
  #699
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It's not scaring the press. It's discrediting the press, so that when they dole out their daily BS, it means absolutely nothing to the fans or the team.
So now the media is so powerful that they have control over their credibility to fans and players? We don't have the ability to think for ourselves apparently?

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10-09-2013, 02:55 PM
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It's like everything is on the media for doing what's best for their job while the players, organization, and fans have no accountability for being unprofessional or buying into it.

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