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Peter Laviolette, fired |Craig Berube new head coach (two-year contract, per Tim P.)

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Old
10-09-2013, 02:57 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I'm surprised to hear you siding with the organization on this one. Usually I agree with you.

The media is always going to be the media regardless of whether there's truth to what's being said or not (and in both cases this time there was some truth to it). The media isn't part of the organization nor being paid millions of dollars (to under perform no less...). The staff, front office, and players are. This isn't some kind of hockey game where we can make some loose argument that standing up to a player is going to change things. If the players or management mess with the media like they have been it comes off as unprofessional and feeds into it more then anything.



That's because if any team played even remotely close to the bullies today they would be in the penalty box literally all the time.

The Flyers haven't changed in that they usually go in-house for a lot of front office and staff positions, Snider is still being Snider, they always seem to sign some useless goon(s) and sometimes to a ridiculous contract while giving them two minutes of ice-time every game, and tend to give too much leeway to certain people.

You also have to admit that the whole "Flyers hockey" concept of hitting everything that moves and being tough is pretty much ingrained within the Flyers culture at this point from the fans upward.
I'm of the opinion that they do harm to the franchise and fanbase by spewing their journalistic diarrhea.

It's nice that one guy is actually asking hard questions, but I get the sense that he's doing it to create sensationalism. Not to actually hold the org accountable. So in that way he's no better than the TMZ wannabes.

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Old
10-09-2013, 02:57 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So now the media is so powerful that they have control over their credibility to fans and players? We don't have the ability to think for ourselves apparently?
You realize fans extend further than HFboards right? The media has a strong sway on public opinion. Maybe not to you or me, but for a significant portion of the Flyers fanbase (possibly a majority), they read the BS and eat it up and controversy follows.

If the media wants a negative reaction, they will get it unless it is made abundantly clear that their words mean absolutely nothing.

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10-09-2013, 03:03 PM
  #703
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Hey everybody let's ask the media to comment on the media..I love when they do that..

Anyway, I'm not arguing that the media doesn't have their agendas....heck the corporate media is the spawn of satan to me.

My argument is there are more nuanced and effective ways of dealing with them to discredit any of their perceived stupidity than telling them to "get lost" or engaging in tweet wars with them like Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus...

Also, people do need to distinguish between questions that they don't necessarily like b/c it touches a nerve that might be true and what is salacious and meant to create some reality that doesn't actually exist...

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10-09-2013, 03:05 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm of the opinion that they do harm to the franchise and fanbase by spewing their journalistic diarrhea.

It's nice that one guy is actually asking hard questions, but I get the sense that he's doing it to create sensationalism. Not to actually hold the org accountable. So in that way he's no better than the TMZ wannabes.
Doesn't matter why he's doing it really he's pretty much right on most accounts as I pointed out earlier. He's complaining about the same thing we complain about on here so I don't really care what his intentions are. Besides, can you really blame a guy for wanting hits for his job?

Like I said, the media is doing their job and doing what's best for them. Yet all the blame gets put on them while the organization is not held accountable for any time they feed into it or act unprofessional and the fans aren't held accountable for believing some of it or being idiots. Kind of really hypocritical all-in-all.

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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
You realize fans extend further than HFboards right? The media has a strong sway on public opinion. Maybe not to you or me, but for a significant portion of the Flyers fanbase (possibly a majority), they read the BS and eat it up and controversy follows.

If the media wants a negative reaction, they will get it unless it is made abundantly clear that their words mean absolutely nothing.
I'm aware and that's what I was getting it. Everything is on the media while the players don't get held accountable for feeding into it and the fans don't get held accountable for being idiots.

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10-09-2013, 03:08 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Hey everybody let's ask the media to comment on the media..I love when they do that..

Anyway, I'm not arguing that the media doesn't have their agendas....heck the corporate media is the spawn of satan to me.

My argument is there are more nuanced and effective ways of dealing with them to discredit any of their perceived stupidity than telling them to "get lost" or engaging in tweet wars with them like Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus...

Also, people do need to distinguish between questions that they don't necessarily like b/c it touches a nerve that might be true and what is salacious and meant to create some reality that doesn't actually exist...
Yeah, the Richards/Carter lockerroom crap was bull the media made up and the fans chewed up. Both should be held responsible for that.

This guy asking hard questions though, shining a lot on things fans on here already talk about, and speaking the truth of how useless Jay Rosehill is isn't anything like that though so I don't get why people are acting as if it is. Even if he's doing it in a combative nature or looking for hits it's hard to blame him considering the way Berube treated him and that it's his job to get hits. Even regardless of that he's speaking the truth here.

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10-09-2013, 03:10 PM
  #706
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When they present rumor as fact and then run with it for years to taint the view of two effective players and then declare jihad on them when they dare to try and clear their own names, they're damaging the team.

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10-09-2013, 03:14 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
When they present rumor as fact and then run with it for years to taint the view of two effective players and then declare jihad on them when they dare to try and clear their own names, they're damaging the team.
Nobody is forcing people to buy into it or for the players to react yet both things happened. Fans bought into it and circulated it and players let it get to them. Everyone is accountable for that fiasco.

This also doesn't relate to what's going on now with this Mike guy. You, along with most of the people here, were acting as if he was doing something on par with the Richards fiasco yet he was pretty much just pointing out things that fans already known and complain about and the media rarely points out or comments on. I appreciate that.

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10-09-2013, 03:15 PM
  #708
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Beef, you should make an Official HF Flyers Board Twitter account.

Tell Kevin Cooney we said, "Hey Kev...**** you."

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10-09-2013, 03:17 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Yeah, the Richards/Carter lockerroom crap was bull the media made up and the fans chewed up. Both should be held responsible for that.

This guy asking hard questions though, shining a lot on things fans on here already talk about, and speaking the truth of how useless Jay Rosehill is isn't anything like that though so I don't get why people are acting as if it is. Even if he's doing it in a combative nature or looking for hits it's hard to blame him considering the way Berube treated him and that it's his job to get hits. Even regardless of that he's speaking the truth here.
Well I don't totally agree that the rumors were all crap but don't want to get into that swamp. But yeah I'm sure the media added their spin as they always do. Having said this ..when it comes to conspiracy theories....you don't necessarily have to worry about the answers if they can get you to ask the wrong questions. You have to try and infer what might be valid and what is total BS....

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10-09-2013, 03:20 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Nobody is forcing people to buy into it or for the players to react yet both things happened. Fans bought into it and circulated it and players let it get to them. Everyone is accountable for that fiasco.
The media, who have a responsibility to not spew unfounded BS in place of actual, thoughtful analysis, is responsible. They're the reason the fans got those ideas in their head, and they're the reason the players felt a need to defend their names...which anybody would do, and be justified in doing so.


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This also doesn't relate to what's going on now with this Mike guy. You, along with most of the people here, were acting as if he was doing something on par with the Richards fiasco yet he was pretty much just pointing out things that fans already known and complain about and the media rarely points out or comments on. I appreciate that.
I was pleased with it at first. But when I saw how he took the quote out of context and wrote a bunch of crap trying to be controversial, I changed my mind. Intent matters.

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Beef, you should make an Official HF Flyers Board Twitter account.

Tell Kevin Cooney we said, "Hey Kev...**** you."
Haha. I would be blocked from by almost every Philly journalist in 15 minutes, with restraining orders on the way.

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10-09-2013, 03:22 PM
  #711
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I respect you Beef so I'll just agree to disagree here. I just enjoy and appreciate someone in the media being truthful about the team and repeating what we think on here. Just makes me happy that someone has the balls to speak the truth and talk about what's really wrong with the team. All while not starting any insane rumors.

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10-09-2013, 03:25 PM
  #712
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I respect you Beef so I'll just agree to disagree here. I just enjoy and appreciate someone in the media being truthful about the team and repeating what we think on here. Just makes me happy that someone has the balls to speak the truth and talk about what's really wrong with the team. All while not starting any insane rumors.
Works for me.

I'm going to wait and see how this guy pans out before I get thankful for his presence.

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10-09-2013, 03:45 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
This guy asking hard questions though, shining a lot on things fans on here already talk about, and speaking the truth of how useless Jay Rosehill is isn't anything like that though so I don't get why people are acting as if it is. Even if he's doing it in a combative nature or looking for hits it's hard to blame him considering the way Berube treated him and that it's his job to get hits. Even regardless of that he's speaking the truth here.
Asking if he has a punishment in mind for Rosehill is a hard question?

He makes a ridiculous assertion that Rosehill's brain fart goes unpunished suggesting that they let him off the hook because he's their enforcer and that's Flyers hockey.

There's this gem in there too:

"yet there was Berube afterward, mitigating Rosehill's first penalty and offering a halfhearted condemnation of the indefensible."

First off, mitigating the first penalty. Did he make it a point to ask what Berube was going to do about the other stupid penalties (notably Meszaros' cross check)? No, so it's probably safe to say he wouldn't have asked the question had it not been for Rosehill's 2nd infraction. How is saying that's unacceptable and he knows that, a halfhearted condemnation? What else is he going to say?

This isn't a reporter trying to get answers to the tough questions, this is a guy who has an agenda to fire shots at the culture that is "Flyers Hockey" (which is fair) and now that he's been roughed up in a few interviews he's making it a personal vendetta.

Asking a coach if he had any type of punishment in mind is a question so stupid that if he wasn't intentionally trying to illicit that type of reaction (which he can later make the focus of his next crucifying article) than he's not bright enough to be covering a professional sports team.

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10-09-2013, 04:33 PM
  #714
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He's really good as a complementary player to a franchise defenseman. He just cannot lead or carry a pairing on his own, which isn't acceptable at his cap hit. Homer was right to let him go instead of overpaying him.
If you go over to the Lightning board, you'll see that they've been very complimentary of Carle this season. He's been their best defenseman, and the change in system appears to be serving him well. I'm not trying to paint Carle as a tremendous offensive defenseman, but he's a very useful puck-mover at ES, and I think he can carry a pairing by himself. A top pairing? Obviously not, but a second pairing? Sure. He's done so the past two seasons, where he hasn't had a hall of famer by his side, and put up 44 ES points in 133 games.

Sure he was overpaid in free agency, but so is every good player that reaches it these days. If you give me a choice of Carle at 5.5, Meszaros at 4, Streit at 5.25, or Coburn at 4.5, I'll take Carle at 5.5.

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10-09-2013, 04:40 PM
  #715
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If you go over to the Lightning board, you'll see that they've been very complimentary of Carle this season. He's been their best defenseman, and the change in system appears to be serving him well. I'm not trying to paint Carle as a tremendous offensive defenseman, but he's a very useful puck-mover at ES, and I think he can carry a pairing by himself. A top pairing? Obviously not, but a second pairing? Sure. He's done so the past two seasons, where he hasn't had a hall of famer by his side, and put up 44 ES points in 133 games.

Sure he was overpaid in free agency, but so is every good player that reaches it these days. If you give me a choice of Carle at 5.5, Meszaros at 4, Streit at 5.25, or Coburn at 4.5, I'll take Carle at 5.5.
I would take Streit since he's the superior player for less. He can at least QB a PP, something Carle has never been able to do. He's about the same defensively and he's outproduced him by a wide margin for years, with an inferior forward group compared to what Carle had.

The last two seasons he definitely struggled. He lead a pairing but didn't exactly do a good job. And as I've said, every statistic points to teams being less effective offensively when he's on the ice. That's really alarming for your offensive Dman, and something you don't usually see.


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10-09-2013, 05:55 PM
  #716
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I read that Mullen was replaced by Tim Tookey.
That part has since been answered as Mullen remains but an update on Tookey:

Earlier this week, he was named to the Hershey Bears' Hall of Fame:

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index...man_among.html

Pretty good article here, too, from a few months ago. John Paddock is mentioned from their AHL days. Tookey is in private business in Edmonton/lives there and Arizona.

http://bearsbites.blogspot.com/2013/...m-article.html


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10-09-2013, 06:38 PM
  #717
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I respect you Beef so I'll just agree to disagree here. I just enjoy and appreciate someone in the media being truthful about the team and repeating what we think on here. Just makes me happy that someone has the balls to speak the truth and talk about what's really wrong with the team. All while not starting any insane rumors.
Hang on just a second-- nobody (that I've seen) had a problem with this guy asking the question. I 100% agree with the reporter that Rosehill should not be a part of this team. It's that he went and knocked Berube and the organization based on nothing but his own preconceptions before the game that I (and Berube) took issue with.

That's why Berube responded the way he did. If San Fillippo asked the very same question, do you think Berube would have given the same response? Absolutely not.

Berube asserted himself solely because of the guy's response to the hiring. That's okay in my book. Clip the guys wings before he goes spouting off any more unnecessary BS about the job he thinks you're going to do.

If Berube was going around picking fights in the media for no apparent reason, then I would be inclined to agree with you, but this wasn't because of a simple stupid question. There was more to it than just that.

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10-09-2013, 07:56 PM
  #718
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Asking if he has a punishment in mind for Rosehill is a hard question?
He phrased it badly, but yes it obviously was.

Quote:
He makes a ridiculous assertion that Rosehill's brain fart goes unpunished suggesting that they let him off the hook because he's their enforcer and that's Flyers hockey.
Though the reasoning is different, it's doubtful Rosehill loses his roster spot for this for more then a game or so and this extends to other areas such as the idiocy in giving Laviolette three games before firing him.

Quote:
There's this gem in there too:

"yet there was Berube afterward, mitigating Rosehill's first penalty and offering a halfhearted condemnation of the indefensible."

First off, mitigating the first penalty. Did he make it a point to ask what Berube was going to do about the other stupid penalties (notably Meszaros' cross check)? No, so it's probably safe to say he wouldn't have asked the question had it not been for Rosehill's 2nd infraction. How is saying that's unacceptable and he knows that, a halfhearted condemnation? What else is he going to say?
He's not indebted to say anything else, but just saying it's unacceptable is very clearly a generic response that doesn't really give any indication of "punishment".

Are you really comparing what Rosehill did to any other penalty in that game? What Rosehill did was far dumber and more selfish then anything I've seen in a while and beyond that it was a double minor.

Quote:
This isn't a reporter trying to get answers to the tough questions, this is a guy who has an agenda to fire shots at the culture that is "Flyers Hockey" (which is fair) and now that he's been roughed up in a few interviews he's making it a personal vendetta.
You just admitted it's fair so I don't see what the problem is. Although he's going by it the wrong way, which I've said before several times, he's making legitimate gripes here.

Quote:
Asking a coach if he had any type of punishment in mind is a question so stupid that if he wasn't intentionally trying to illicit that type of reaction (which he can later make the focus of his next crucifying article) than he's not bright enough to be covering a professional sports team.
Like I've already said a few times, he phrased it badly and he most likely was either not thinking too hard or trying ti illicit a response but regardless it doesn't change the fact that he just asked what fans are thinking and wanting. None of us like Rosehill and we all don't want him on the roster.

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10-09-2013, 09:39 PM
  #719
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If you go over to the Lightning board, you'll see that they've been very complimentary of Carle this season. He's been their best defenseman, and the change in system appears to be serving him well. I'm not trying to paint Carle as a tremendous offensive defenseman, but he's a very useful puck-mover at ES, and I think he can carry a pairing by himself. A top pairing? Obviously not, but a second pairing? Sure. He's done so the past two seasons, where he hasn't had a hall of famer by his side, and put up 44 ES points in 133 games.

Sure he was overpaid in free agency, but so is every good player that reaches it these days. If you give me a choice of Carle at 5.5,Timonen at 6, Meszaros at 4, Streit at 5.25, or Coburn at 4.5, I'll take Carle at 5.5.
I'd add to that the bolded segment. Cheers, I miss Matt Carle's consistently solid,, minute chewing play... and Kimmo absolutely sucks this year. I'd bench him for Gus.

People love to hate Carle, but we made it to Game 6 of the SCF, with Leighton in net and 4 Dmen playing. Yes, Pronger and Timone were the top 2, but Coburn and Carle got more ice time in the finals IIRC, as their older partners wore down.

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10-09-2013, 09:46 PM
  #720
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We could definitely use Carle and I'd much rather use Meszaros' money on Carle but that's the past and even if it weren't we can't fit Carle in as currently constructed.

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10-09-2013, 09:48 PM
  #721
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Yeah, the Richards/Carter lockerroom crap was bull the media made up and the fans chewed up. Both should be held responsible for that.
You can believe that if you want, but it's just ostriching. Homer admitted taking them for rides to get them to smarten up. They moved out Upshall and Lupul as a wake up call. Stevens was fired and Lavy was brought in to get them to come to practice ready to practice. Dry Island is a fact, along with Richards' unacceptable snub of it. The media didn't make that stuff up, it happened.

The simple fact is they were traded because the Flyers didn't want to get locked into upcoming 10 year contract extensions with two guys who were burning the candle at both ends with blowtorches.

There was a reason they traded both of them, simultaneously and clandestinely, when they only needed to trade Carter to make cap room to sign Bryz. They wanted to avoid unnecessary questions from their trading partners. LA knew what it was getting into, Columbus didn't.

Enjoy your life in Egypt, I hope da view is great from da Nile.

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10-09-2013, 09:53 PM
  #722
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We could definitely use Carle and I'd much rather use Meszaros' money on Carle but that's the past and even if it weren't we can't fit Carle in as currently constructed.
I'd take Carle over Mez too, if it were the same cap hit. Ideally though we would have spent some time raising our own dmen, so we could have younger guys on cheap contracts playing their way up. Like Gus.

Well, this being the Flyers, I guess it's more accurate to say we would have the talent play their way into an eternal role as healthy scratches behind washed up veterans on the decline before they leave for Europe.

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10-09-2013, 09:55 PM
  #723
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You can believe that if you want, but it's just ostriching. Homer admitted taking them for rides to get them to smarten up. They moved out Upshall and Lupul as a wake up call. Stevens was fired and Lavy was brought in to get them to come to practice ready to practice. Dry Island is a fact, along with Richards' unacceptable snub of it. The media didn't make that stuff up, it happened.

The simple fact is they were traded because the Flyers didn't want to get locked into upcoming 10 year contract extensions with two guys who were burning the candle at both ends with blowtorches.

There was a reason they traded both of them, simultaneously and clandestinely, when they only needed to trade Carter to make cap room to sign Bryz. They wanted to avoid unnecessary questions from their trading partners. LA knew what it was getting into, Columbus didn't.

Enjoy your life in Egypt, I hope da view is great from da Nile.
The only person here in denial is you, sir. You completely ignore the vital and overriding problems Homer had created that just so happened to be addressed to a T by the trades. Character issues might have been a part of it, but there were far more pressing hockey issues that dwarfed any rumored off ice problems.

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10-09-2013, 09:57 PM
  #724
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You can believe that if you want, but it's just ostriching. Homer admitted taking them for rides to get them to smarten up. They moved out Upshall and Lupul as a wake up call. Stevens was fired and Lavy was brought in to get them to come to practice ready to practice. Dry Island is a fact, along with Richards' unacceptable snub of it. The media didn't make that stuff up, it happened.

The simple fact is they were traded because the Flyers didn't want to get locked into upcoming 10 year contract extensions with two guys who were burning the candle at both ends with blowtorches.

There was a reason they traded both of them, simultaneously and clandestinely, when they only needed to trade Carter to make cap room to sign Bryz. They wanted to avoid unnecessary questions from their trading partners. LA knew what it was getting into, Columbus didn't.

Enjoy your life in Egypt, I hope da view is great from da Nile.
Yeah, their games have obviously declined in LA and Columbus. They've obviously burnt themselves out this whole time despite the Cup win, Richards still excelling defensively while contributing secondary scoring, and Carter still being an extremely dominant goal scorer. Look at those bums. Unlike Bryz.

So smart of us to sign both of them to life-time contracts essentially then trade them away almost immediately just to sign Bryz and buy him out a season later. We're obviously reaping the benefits of that one.

I'm the one in denial? [mod]


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10-09-2013, 10:05 PM
  #725
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For the record:

Richards (2nd line center):

'11-'12: 44 points in 74 games, 15 points in 20 playoff games
'12-'13: 32 points in 48 games, 12 points in 15 playoff games

Carter (top six winger IIRC):

'11-'12: 21 goals in 55 games, 8 goals (13 points) in 20 playoff games
'12-'13: 26 goals in 48 games, 6 goals (13 points) in 18 playoff games

Both with a Cup win.

Bryzgalov

'11-'12: .909 save percentage, 33 Wins
'12-'13: .900 save percentage, 19 Wins

I think it's safe to say that LA is happy with the trade (yes, I know Carter came from Columbus technically), Philly isn't happy with Bryz, and there's been not one peep of lockerroom troubles stemming from them since they left.

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