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How has Edmonton's rebuild gone?

View Poll Results: How has Edmonton's Rebuild gone?
Excellent 4 1.14%
Good 28 7.95%
Needs more work 174 49.43%
The drafted the wrong players 20 5.68%
Bad 65 18.47%
Terrible 61 17.33%
Voters: 352. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-07-2013, 03:52 PM
  #26
RisingSun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Edmonton's re-draft from 2007 (season after Pronger took off, the start of the rebuild) on:

2007: McDonagh instead of Gagner, Pacioretty instead of Plante, Perron instead of Nash
2008: Do not pick up Penner. Draft Erik Karlsson, Travis Hamonic, and Zach Smith instead. Carlson instead of Eberle
2009: Kassian instead of MPS.
2010: Hall is fine. Keep him in junior for another season.
2011: Trade down to draft Couturier and Boone Jenner instead of RNH.
2012: By now finishing as the lottery winner isn't an option, but take Grigorenko.

Check this out:

Hall Grigorenko Kassian
Pacioretty Couturier Perron
Smith Jenner


McDonagh-Karlsson
Hamonic-Carlson

That defense is freakin' awesome. Edmonton should've acquired it at the beginning of their rebuild. Now they're scrambling just to acquire an NHL-worthy top-4 in time for their forwards to start blooming.

The big question is if K-Lo 'knows what it takes to win', then why in the hell did he acquire Dustin Penner rather expensively during an obvious rebuild phase?
You're a genius. This is literally the smartest thing I've ever seen posted on hfboards. Why didn't stupid Lowe think of this. Time travel drafting. Bloody smart, if you ask me.

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Old
10-07-2013, 04:05 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Edmonton's re-draft from 2007 (season after Pronger took off, the start of the rebuild) on:

2007: McDonagh instead of Gagner, Pacioretty instead of Plante, Perron instead of Nash
2008: Do not pick up Penner. Draft Erik Karlsson, Travis Hamonic, and Zach Smith instead. Carlson instead of Eberle
2009: Kassian instead of MPS.
2010: Hall is fine. Keep him in junior for another season.
2011: Trade down to draft Couturier and Boone Jenner instead of RNH.
2012: By now finishing as the lottery winner isn't an option, but take Grigorenko.

Check this out:

Hall Grigorenko Kassian
Pacioretty Couturier Perron
Smith Jenner

McDonagh-Karlsson
Hamonic-Carlson

That defense is freakin' awesome. Edmonton should've acquired it at the beginning of their rebuild. Now they're scrambling just to acquire an NHL-worthy top-4 in time for their forwards to start blooming.

The big question is if K-Lo 'knows what it takes to win', then why in the hell did he acquire Dustin Penner rather expensively during an obvious rebuild phase?
Alright so lets get started.
Kassian is not worthy of a top line spot in the NHL
Grigorenko is not worthy of a top line center spot in the NHL right now
Couturier has not shown to be a top 6 center in the NHL, but could with more oppourtunity

So we would actually have a good defence, but only 3 egitimate top 6 players, Hall, Perron and Pacioretty. And we'd be still 2-3 years away from even being where we are now.

So you've actually made the Oilers a worse team. Good job

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Old
10-07-2013, 04:53 PM
  #28
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I want to cheer for Edmonton, but can't until they don't get a goalie.

I dunno if Miller said he doesn't want to leave Buffalo, but Oils need to do whatever possible to get Miller. Maybe even overpay and trade one of their elite forwards if the need be.

Dubnyk won't be there when Oilers make the playoffs. And if they ever do, do Oilers fans see him as a guy capable of winning a playoff series? I'm skeptical of it.

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10-07-2013, 04:54 PM
  #29
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They've improved a little

They're on square 2 I'd say

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10-07-2013, 05:06 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
I want to cheer for Edmonton, but can't until they don't get a goalie.

I dunno if Miller said he doesn't want to leave Buffalo, but Oils need to do whatever possible to get Miller. Maybe even overpay and trade one of their elite forwards if the need be.

Dubnyk won't be there when Oilers make the playoffs. And if they ever do, do Oilers fans see him as a guy capable of winning a playoff series? I'm skeptical of it.
It's not all Dubnyk's fault. There have been a couple stinkers, but no one is really trying to play D and help the guy.

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Old
10-07-2013, 05:24 PM
  #31
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needs much more work.

and that applies to the whole organization. not just the players on the ice.

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Old
10-07-2013, 06:23 PM
  #32
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Super duper time to ask, Flames fan.

Ugh. The players we picked are all gems. But until this year we had an incompetent, mentally-******** platypus with the final say on personnel. Under MacT it's headed in a better direction.

Same with Calgary. Baertschi and Monahan look like great pieces but Fatster really sucked the hind banana in the returns he procured for your stars. Get rid of him and you, too, can suck like us (but for much less time).

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Old
10-07-2013, 06:34 PM
  #33
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They're on the right track now (who knew, apparently MacTavish actually is a decent GM unlike Tambo). Still needs more work.

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10-07-2013, 06:38 PM
  #34
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Good rookie GM (accomplished A LOT in his first off-season with various bad players and contracts). Not excellent like Nill, but better than the average NHL GM's offseason, which is pretty good for a rookie. Didn't do much for the 4th line, a bit more toughness, centre depth, or top-4 dman acquisitions, but he did try to land a better goalie, top-4 dmen, and keeps missing on toughness. There are a couple of items that aren't easy fixes.

Good rookie coach. Did wonders with the Marlies in terms of results and player development. Almost everything he says about systems, player usage, analytics, etc, suggests we have a guy who understands the "being a pro" part, and also the "using your assets to maximal potential via systems" side of it too.

Two good not great goalies in Dubnyk and Barbie.

Three solid forward lines when all are healthy

9-10 NHL-capable dmen with 6 guys who could legit play in virtually any top-6 in the league? That was MacT's biggest coup. Could still desperately use a top pairing guy, but this is the next best option.

Superb defensive depth in the system. A new crop of draft picks which are all lighting it up (it's a very young season but it's staggering how good all of Nurse, Roy, Platzer, Yakimov, Chase are all looking).

And functionally big, tough forwards in the system in Hartikainen and Khaira.

This team's rebuild has been put back on track by MacT, no doubt about it.

Still one year out of making the playoffs in my opinion but they're finally going in the right direction with somebody in charge who can tell what direction is right.

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Old
10-07-2013, 07:06 PM
  #35
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Lots of offensive guys, but their D and goaltending isn't close to the same level as their young forwards.

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Old
10-07-2013, 07:16 PM
  #36
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it's going terrible. they might actually do worse this year than last year.

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10-07-2013, 08:08 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seancolorado View Post
I can't find the article, but a fellow Mile High Hockey'er wrote the evolution of a rebuild and it comes in these stages:

"All Blowed Up"
"Rebuilding"
"Contending"
"Climax"
"Past Prime"
"Death's Door"

Edmonton is out of the "All Blowed Up" stage and is now in the "Rebuilding" stage. Give them a solid 3 years before you start judging their defense and goaltending. If at that point they're not "contending" for a playoff spot (or even Stanley Cup), then we'll talk
WTF.

They have been rebuilding 5+ years. If they still need 3 more years to get on the right track, every single person in management need to be fired.

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Old
10-07-2013, 08:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
WTF.

They have been rebuilding 5+ years. If they still need 3 more years to get on the right track, every single person in management need to be fired.
Our rebuild officially started when we drafted Hall. Management figured we'd be competitive for whatever reason.

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10-07-2013, 08:19 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Good rookie GM (accomplished A LOT in his first off-season with various bad players and contracts). Not excellent like Nill, but better than the average NHL GM's offseason, which is pretty good for a rookie. Didn't do much for the 4th line, a bit more toughness, centre depth, or top-4 dman acquisitions, but he did try to land a better goalie, top-4 dmen, and keeps missing on toughness. There are a couple of items that aren't easy fixes.

Good rookie coach. Did wonders with the Marlies in terms of results and player development. Almost everything he says about systems, player usage, analytics, etc, suggests we have a guy who understands the "being a pro" part, and also the "using your assets to maximal potential via systems" side of it too.

Two good not great goalies in Dubnyk and Barbie.

Three solid forward lines when all are healthy

9-10 NHL-capable dmen with 6 guys who could legit play in virtually any top-6 in the league? That was MacT's biggest coup. Could still desperately use a top pairing guy, but this is the next best option.

Superb defensive depth in the system. A new crop of draft picks which are all lighting it up (it's a very young season but it's staggering how good all of Nurse, Roy, Platzer, Yakimov, Chase are all looking).

And functionally big, tough forwards in the system in Hartikainen and Khaira.

This team's rebuild has been put back on track by MacT, no doubt about it.

Still one year out of making the playoffs in my opinion but they're finally going in the right direction with somebody in charge who can tell what direction is right.
Man that is rose coloured glasses:
1. MacT: meh offseason. Didn't address key needs. Couldn't sign a goalie get a top 4 defenceman or a good center to back up RNH. A couple of failry minor deals in Ferrence and Gordon. Good depth guys.
2. Coach: Hasn't won an NHL game. Too early to say but success in junior doesn't always translate to the NHL.
3. Bolded: 6 defencemenn who could play in any top 6 in the league??????
This is simply a way over the top exaggeration. Defensively the team is well below average.
4. Two good goalies. Labarbera is not a good goalie and Dubnyk is still a huge question mark.
5. Superb defensive depth: I disagree. You have some decent defensive prospects and a couple will turn into very good defencemen if all goes well.

Your post is not really a realistic assessment of where the team is at, IMO.

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Old
10-07-2013, 08:52 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Good rookie GM (accomplished A LOT in his first off-season with various bad players and contracts). Not excellent like Nill, but better than the average NHL GM's offseason, which is pretty good for a rookie. Didn't do much for the 4th line, a bit more toughness, centre depth, or top-4 dman acquisitions, but he did try to land a better goalie, top-4 dmen, and keeps missing on toughness. There are a couple of items that aren't easy fixes.

Good rookie coach. Did wonders with the Marlies in terms of results and player development. Almost everything he says about systems, player usage, analytics, etc, suggests we have a guy who understands the "being a pro" part, and also the "using your assets to maximal potential via systems" side of it too.

Two good not great goalies in Dubnyk and Barbie.

Three solid forward lines when all are healthy

9-10 NHL-capable dmen with 6 guys who could legit play in virtually any top-6 in the league? That was MacT's biggest coup. Could still desperately use a top pairing guy, but this is the next best option.

Superb defensive depth in the system. A new crop of draft picks which are all lighting it up (it's a very young season but it's staggering how good all of Nurse, Roy, Platzer, Yakimov, Chase are all looking).

And functionally big, tough forwards in the system in Hartikainen and Khaira.

This team's rebuild has been put back on track by MacT, no doubt about it.

Still one year out of making the playoffs in my opinion but they're finally going in the right direction with somebody in charge who can tell what direction is right.
Holy Rose colored glasses batman.

Outside of your 1st overalls and Eberle, i cannot name a decent draft pick you guys have, MPS was decent at best (still top 10 pick), Klefbom is looking good but still a long way away from being in the NHL and Nurse looks great, but will take a long time too.

Personally, i think your team has an accepted culture of losing that will be VERY hard to get rid of. Hall RNH and Eberle have all been losing so long that trying to get them competing for 82 games looks to be a Challenge. I see serious entitlement issues.

Hall is still amazing, but he loves to win, when that isnt happening he gets very frustrated.

I dont know how many years the Oilers will need to keep rebuilding, but they wont go anywhere until they get some homegrown depth, dont see much of that now.

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Old
10-07-2013, 09:00 PM
  #41
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Sorry, but that many times in last place = poor rebuild. You shouldn't need a 1st overall pick that many times. I voted bad because it is hard to be terrible with that many 1st overalls, but it was close.

Looking at everything aside from the 1st overalls, they haven't done much.

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10-07-2013, 09:18 PM
  #42
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They started from rock bottom more than any other rebuild I can think of. The team Crosby started on in Pittsburgh had Recchi, Leclerc, Gonchar, Palffy and even Lemieux for some time.

Hard to say how it's going when there isn't much to compare it to. I'm sure they still wish they'd have never dug such a huge hole though. And people should probably realize it's not as easy as picking 1st a couple times.

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10-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #43
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Sorry, but that many times in last place = poor rebuild. You shouldn't need a 1st overall pick that many times. I voted bad because it is hard to be terrible with that many 1st overalls, but it was close.

Looking at everything aside from the 1st overalls, they haven't done much.
Pittsburgh went 1-2-1-2 and drafted 2 generational talents. I think people have too high expectations when it comes to 1st overalls. Not all of them are generational.

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Old
10-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #44
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Honestly, the roster looks way better than it did a couple years ago and they have a ton of valuable pieces to trade if they want to change directions a bit. MacT had a relatively quiet but solid offseason and picked up 3 guys I was hoping the Avs might add to their rebuild (Gordon, Ference, Belov) though Gordon is being paid way too much. He finally got rid of Horcoff. He also moved a questionable prospect in MPS for a legit top 6 guy in Perron. He's shown willingness to make changes and I think things are looking up in Edmonton regardless of how this year goes.

Besides it's far too early to write off this season. Anyone remember the way Ottawa started off their 2011 season?

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Old
10-07-2013, 09:30 PM
  #45
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You're a genius. This is literally the smartest thing I've ever seen posted on hfboards. Why didn't stupid Lowe think of this. Time travel drafting. Bloody smart, if you ask me.
Lowe is a ****ing idiot for not time travel drafting. Fire Lowe.

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Old
10-07-2013, 09:45 PM
  #46
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WTF.

They have been rebuilding 5+ years. If they still need 3 more years to get on the right track, every single person in management need to be fired.
Tambellini already got the sack. This is MacTavish's show now.

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Old
10-07-2013, 09:58 PM
  #47
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How about people stop making threads about the Oilers and worry about their own teams? It's amazing how many people are concerned about us.

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10-07-2013, 10:32 PM
  #48
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How about people stop making threads about the Oilers and worry about their own teams? It's amazing how many people are concerned about us.
You guys keep telling us, that you are building a dynasty. So far all we see is bottom 5 finishes, year, after year, after year.

That is what has peaked everyone's attention

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Old
10-07-2013, 11:23 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Daley Tarasenkshow View Post
They have an amazing top 6, but there bottom six needs work. They need to be better at drafting beyond the 1st and 2nd rounds.
Why do people always say this. Their top 6 is good, but I'd say its borderline top 10 in the league. Not good enough to carry a whole team clearly

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10-07-2013, 11:28 PM
  #50
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Why do people always say this. Their top 6 is good, but I'd say its borderline top 10 in the league. Not good enough to carry a whole team clearly
It's borderline top10 right now...and probably will be top 3 when they're all in their prime. That's what happens when you draft 3x 1st overalls.

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