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10-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #1
odishabs
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Kyle Clifford

hey guys,

habs fan coming in peace. I just wanted to get a gauge on what it would cost to acquire Clifford around the deadline.


To Montreal: Kyle Clifford

To LA: Travis Moen(500k retained) and a 3rd round pick


could this be close?

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10-07-2013, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
hey guys,

habs fan coming in peace. I just wanted to get a gauge on what it would cost to acquire Clifford around the deadline.


To Montreal: Kyle Clifford

To LA: Travis Moen(500k retained) and a 3rd round pick


could this be close?
No thank you. Value maybe close but we are too weak on the left side, and I like Clifford a heck of a lot more than Moen at this point in their careers.

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10-07-2013, 01:18 PM
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Not sure LA needs Moen, or wants him.

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10-07-2013, 01:22 PM
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Only LW from MTL I see us ever targeting is Pacioretty. And that won't happen as Patches is untouchable. And amazing. Go Blue.

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10-07-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
hey guys,

habs fan coming in peace. I just wanted to get a gauge on what it would cost to acquire Clifford around the deadline.


To Montreal: Kyle Clifford

To LA: Travis Moen(500k retained) and a 3rd round pick


could this be close?
I'd hate to part with Clifford, but from a pure value standpoint, it's fair.

But the Kings may be wanting to get more scoring if possible.

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10-07-2013, 01:26 PM
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Only LW from MTL I see us ever targeting is Pacioretty. And that won't happen as Patches is untouchable. And amazing. Go Blue.
I agree with this. Would love to get Pacioretty in LA. But just don't see it happening.

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10-07-2013, 01:30 PM
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I have gone from not liking Moen to being one of his biggest fans.

That said, no way I do this.

A) Moen is nine years older and on the downswing in his career. Moen's offensive production is also on the downswing while Clifford will likely be increasing his production, though likely to not exceed about 30 points a year.

B) Moen's cap hit is $775,000 higher, which is actually more than what the Kings have in cap space at the moment. Not to mention Moen isn't worth spending more cap space on. Even factoring in the retained amount, it'd still cost us more than what Clifford costs us now.

A 3rd doesn't out weigh the difference in age, upside and cap space.

I'd love to add Moen, I just don't see where we could fit him in and still offer something that Montreal wants.

I think he plays a little centre from time to time, so maybe Colin Fraser and a 3rd for Moen if Montreal retains about half the salary, but if I was Montreal, I'd pass on that. He'd be great on the fourth line.

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10-07-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I have gone from not liking Moen to being one of his biggest fans.

That said, no way I do this.

A) Moen is nine years older and on the downswing in his career. Moen's offensive production is also on the downswing while Clifford will likely be increasing his production, though likely to not exceed about 30 points a year.

B) Moen's cap hit is $775,000 higher, which is actually more than what the Kings have in cap space at the moment. Not to mention Moen isn't worth spending more cap space on. Even factoring in the retained amount, it'd still cost us more than what Clifford costs us now.

A 3rd doesn't out weigh the difference in age, upside and cap space.

I'd love to add Moen, I just don't see where we could fit him in and still offer something that Montreal wants.

I think he plays a little centre from time to time, so maybe Colin Fraser and a 3rd for Moen if Montreal retains about half the salary, but if I was Montreal, I'd pass on that. He'd be great on the fourth line.

I feel the same way you do about Moen. The problem to me is that I don't think we need to look outside our org to strengthen our bottom 6 (assuming Cliffy isn't the answer or not in his current capacity) so Moen isn't really who we need.

I think King is becoming the utility player with size and adequate skills that we had him projected to be but I would move him for a pick/picks before Cliffy.


I guess I would have to pass on the OP's offer because it just isn't enough of what we would need or looking for if we were to move him. Not that the value is far off (MTL retains $750k, Moen + a 3rd) only that it isn't what we would need or be looking for in return.

Rumor has it that Franzen could be available out of Detroit for a Dman or that he was being shopped this summer and that was the rumored return.

Franzen would be a better fit at the spot but that is a different thread.

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10-07-2013, 01:57 PM
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The value is fine, but there is no motivation from LA to downgrade a wing for a pick.

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10-07-2013, 02:01 PM
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Franzen would be a great add. What type of D-man is Detroit seeking TG?

Muzzin or A-Mart in a deal would be doable.

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10-07-2013, 02:05 PM
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No way from this king fan ( i know ur all shocked lol ) Cliffords physical play with some offensive upside is worth more then a 3rd and Moen. He was 5th last year in the league in hits averageing just over 10 mins a game. This stat is something most king fans over look when evaluating clifford. The kings play a physical game and should not trade the 2nd on th kings 5th in the league in hits. Only way i would trade clifford is if theres a upgrade coming back or a over payment. Please my fellow king fans realize his worth to this team. He is only 22 no wear near his prime playing yet be patient please.

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10-07-2013, 02:08 PM
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what if the 3rd was upgraded to a 2nd?

or Louis LeBlanc included?

or for salary purposes; would you rather Ryan White?

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10-07-2013, 02:14 PM
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I fear LeBlanc is as close to the NHL as I am at this point.

We don't need draft picks. We are going for a Stanley Cup this year, any deal should either give us the better player or more cap space. This trade does neither.

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10-07-2013, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
what if the 3rd was upgraded to a 2nd?

or Louis LeBlanc included?

or for salary purposes; would you rather Ryan White?
Actually, Lombardi would probably prefer draft picks over all else. Clifford's FMV is probably something close to a 2nd or 2nd+.

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10-07-2013, 02:23 PM
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Clifford for a second round pick.

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10-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Franzen would be a great add. What type of D-man is Detroit seeking TG?

Muzzin or A-Mart in a deal would be doable.
Top 4 pairing is what they were asking for this summer or what the rumor was said to be. They were in on Scuds big time but something fell through. I am guessing that it was Scuds wanted to go back to the Pens pretty much exclusively but I was out of things and didn't really follow up.

From us we would have to make it pretty sweet. Either A Mart or Muzz plus something solid (Kitsyn level prospect).

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10-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
Clifford for a second round pick.
this would open a spot for a young guy, but we are in win now mode so I don't see it.
I would rather LA trade 2 players for 1 upgrade to open up the spot. I think a Clifford holds more value that what could be gather with Montreal's 2nd.

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10-07-2013, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
this would open a spot for a young guy, but we are in win now mode so I don't see it.
I would rather LA trade 2 players for 1 upgrade to open up the spot. I think a Clifford holds more value that what could be gather with Montreal's 2nd.
Lol.

So, by trading away Clifford, we're no longer in a "win now" mode?

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10-07-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
this would open a spot for a young guy, but we are in win now mode so I don't see it.
I would rather LA trade 2 players for 1 upgrade to open up the spot. I think a Clifford holds more value that what could be gather with Montreal's 2nd.
I don't know, but if there's a second rounder available, then the kings can easily replace him with a prospect. He hasn't progressed really that much.

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10-07-2013, 02:41 PM
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Moen(500k retained)/White
A 3rd round pick
A 4th round pick

for

Clifford
4th round pick

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10-07-2013, 02:50 PM
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etherialone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
Moen(500k retained)/White
A 3rd round pick
A 4th round pick

for

Clifford
4th round pick
No thanks to Moen or White.

Counter,


You get Clifford

We get a 2nd an a 4rth in 14 and a 2nd in 15.

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10-07-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
No thanks to Moen or White.

Counter,


You get Clifford

We get a 2nd an a 4rth in 14 and a 2nd in 15.
2 second round picks and a fourth? Seems like a massive overpayment imo

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10-07-2013, 03:27 PM
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Lol.

So, by trading away Clifford, we're no longer in a "win now" mode?
No but you don't often see teams chasing the cup trade assets like Clifford. They usually trade for them.

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10-07-2013, 03:28 PM
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HYORI 1963
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I can see some teams giving up a two 2nds for a Toffoli or a Pearson, but a two 2nds AND a 4th for a Clifford???

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10-07-2013, 03:30 PM
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No but you don't often see teams chasing the cup trade assets like Clifford. They usually trade for them.
Clifford is our 4th liner who can easily be replaced by Carcillo or King. I think you overvalue Clifford quite a bit.

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