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What the HELL is going on with Henrik Lundqvist?

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01-09-2014, 02:00 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
How am I a spoiled brat? I have been a Mets and Rangers fan for 30+ years. How can ANYONE like that be deemed, "spoiled"?
If you've been a fan of the Rangers for over 3 decades, you should realize how good hes been and how dumb you sound consistently bashing him during some struggles.

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01-09-2014, 03:14 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
So Lundqvist is not one of the top 5 goalies that ever lived. What a bum.
No, he isnt.

There's nothing wrong in that. The fanbase has to accept the fact that the chances of him carrying a team to a SCF are slim as he gets older.

As much as this fan base wants to ignore it, he will always be measured by what he does (or doesnt do) in the postseason.

Sports.

Shocking revelation, isn't it?

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01-09-2014, 03:25 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
No, he isnt.

There's nothing wrong in that. The fanbase has to accept the fact that the chances of him carrying a team to a SCF are slim as he gets older.

As much as this fan base wants to ignore it, he will always be measured by what he does (or doesnt do) in the postseason.

Sports.

Shocking revelation, isn't it?
Hes been a great regular season goalie and his stats are nearly identical in the playoffs.

Could have something to do with the 18 guys in front of him, just a hunch.

The only goaltender I've ever seen literally carry his team to the finals is Hasek, and he didnt even win.

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01-10-2014, 10:57 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes been a great regular season goalie and his stats are nearly identical in the playoffs.

Could have something to do with the 18 guys in front of him, just a hunch.

The only goaltender I've ever seen literally carry his team to the finals is Hasek, and he didnt even win.
Wow....you must have been a Missionary or in a submarine for 25 years.

Giguere in 2003? The Ducks missed the playoffs the year before and after the 2003 season.

Ward in 2006? Carolina missed the playoffs the two seasons before and the two seasons after the 2006 Cup

Quote:
"The kid came in when we were down and out," Brind'Amour said. "He brought us to life. Goaltending wins championships, make no mistake about it. We had the best goalie in the playoffs."
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...up-1206669.php

Kiprusoff in 2004? Calgary didnt have home ice in any round. He allowed one goal or less six times between the CF and SCF.Calgary was 19th in the NHL in goals scored that year.

I can keep going if you'd like.

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01-10-2014, 11:09 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hes been a great regular season goalie and his stats are nearly identical in the playoffs.
His SVPCT in the four losses to the Devils which prevented the team from going to the SCF were .889, .897, .750 (in Game 5) and .897

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01-10-2014, 11:16 AM
  #731
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
His SVPCT in the four losses to the Devils which prevented the team from going to the SCF were .889, .897, .750 (in Game 5) and .897
What a wonderful and thorough sample size. Im sure you can't find 4 poor playoff games for Roy and Hasek.

Henrik Lundqvist prevented the team from going to the finals in '11-12. Thats what you're saying. Let that sink in for a bit.

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01-10-2014, 02:26 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What a wonderful and thorough sample size. Im sure you can't find 4 poor playoff games for Roy and Hasek.

Henrik Lundqvist prevented the team from going to the finals in '11-12. Thats what you're saying. Let that sink in for a bit.
I like how you breezed past my response to your indefensable and ridiculous assertion that Hasek was the only goalie to ever carry a team to a SCF.

But anyway, the point (which as usual you fail to understrand) is that Lundqvist has been a position (either by virtue of his play, his team's play or a combination of both)
to carry his teams deeper into the playoffs and in his.

In 2006, he was terrible in the four game sweep. The whole team was, but so was he.

In 2007, he was terrible in a Game 6 elimination game. They had a 1-0 lead in Game 5 in Buffalo with under a minute left

In 2008, he gave up five goals in two of the first three games of the Pens series on only 26 and 17 shots respectively. They had a 3-0 lead in Game 1.

In 2009, after a 3-1 series lead, he gave up 11 goals on only 68 combined shots (.714 and .757 in Games 5 and 6)

And in 2012, he was outplayed by Brodeur in four of the last five games despite not being faced with a barrage of scoring chances.

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01-10-2014, 02:45 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I like how you breezed past my response to your indefensable and ridiculous assertion that Hasek was the only goalie to ever carry a team to a SCF.
I didnt breeze by it. I read it, shook my head about how you fail to see how those Anaheim and Carolina teams were much better than Hasek's Buffalo team, and choose to move on. Quite frankly, I cant believe I took an argument this far with someone who thinks a goaltender should carry a Glen Sather team to the Stanley Cup. That line of thinking is in the upper-echelon of stupidity.

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01-10-2014, 02:49 PM
  #734
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Lundqvist can give up a softy every game if he plays like he did on Wednesday. He can shoot one into his own net if he likes. Because otherwise he isn't giving up many goals.

He was great in the 3rd period. Beautiful to watch.

I still wonder if he is 100% healthy.

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01-10-2014, 02:49 PM
  #735
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IIRC that 2003 Ducks team was coached by Mike Babcock and they played a good defensive game? Or something? Even Hasek didn't win a Cup until he had one of the most stacked teams in modern history in front of him. I've always thought of Hank's situation in NY as somewhat similar to Hasek in Buffalo: Great goalie who routinely dragged mediocre teams to the post-season.

The 2006 Hurricanes were a damn good team, and very clutch; I never understood why HF craps on them so much. They may not have been a juggernaut on paper but they were a good team. Rod the Bod GOAT. The Rangers GF plummets in the playoffs, while Hanks stats stay virtually the same. Hanks been in position to take this team deep once, and they made the ECF. People expect him to carry tepid teams deep in the playoffs, while ignoring the fact that he carried those teams to the playoffs.

It would be a historical performance for Hank to drag this gaggle of turds to the Finals.


Last edited by aufheben: 01-10-2014 at 03:03 PM.
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01-10-2014, 02:55 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I like how you breezed past my response to your indefensable and ridiculous assertion that Hasek was the only goalie to ever carry a team to a SCF.

But anyway, the point (which as usual you fail to understrand) is that Lundqvist has been a position (either by virtue of his play, his team's play or a combination of both)
to carry his teams deeper into the playoffs and in his.

In 2006, he was terrible in the four game sweep. The whole team was, but so was he.

In 2007, he was terrible in a Game 6 elimination game. They had a 1-0 lead in Game 5 in Buffalo with under a minute left

In 2008, he gave up five goals in two of the first three games of the Pens series on only 26 and 17 shots respectively. They had a 3-0 lead in Game 1.

In 2009, after a 3-1 series lead, he gave up 11 goals on only 68 combined shots (.714 and .757 in Games 5 and 6)

And in 2012, he was outplayed by Brodeur in four of the last five games despite not being faced with a barrage of scoring chances.
He was definitely not healthy in 2006. So he can't be faulted for that one. He rushed back from injury to play and was nowhere near ready to go.

It should also be noted that the only series the Rangers as a team should have won was in 2012 against the Devils. Lundqvist was outplayed and the team was outworked and horribly outcoached. Otherwise they were pretty large underdogs, playing most of their games on the road.

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01-10-2014, 03:52 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I didnt breeze by it. I read it, shook my head about how you fail to see how those Anaheim and Carolina teams were much better than Hasek's Buffalo team, and choose to move on. Quite frankly, I cant believe I took an argument this far with someone who thinks a goaltender should carry a Glen Sather team to the Stanley Cup. That line of thinking is in the upper-echelon of stupidity.
LOL that Buffalo team -- in the heart of the Dead Puck era -- scored three or more goals in 15 of 21 playoff games that year. They were actually better than the 2003 Ducks.

Neither had the luxury of having home ice in any round, unlike the 2012 Rangers.

My favorite stat to put this to bed:

Henrik played in 13 games in the 2012 postseason in which the Rangers scored two goals or less.

His record in those games -- 4-9 (3 losses apiece to the 6th , 7th and 8th seeds)

Giguere played in 12 games in the 2003 postseason in which the Ducks scored two goals or less.

His record in those games -- 7-5 (2-0 against the No. 2 seed, 3-0 against the 6th Seed, 1-2 against the No. 1 seed and 1-3 against the Stanley Cup Champs)

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01-10-2014, 03:55 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What a wonderful and thorough sample size. Im sure you can't find 4 poor playoff games for Roy and Hasek.

Henrik Lundqvist prevented the team from going to the finals in '11-12. Thats what you're saying. Let that sink in for a bit.
He fell apart in the biggest series of his career.

Which I think was the point.

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01-10-2014, 03:59 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
He was definitely not healthy in 2006. So he can't be faulted for that one. He rushed back from injury to play and was nowhere near ready to go.

It should also be noted that the only series the Rangers as a team should have won was in 2012 against the Devils. Lundqvist was outplayed and the team was outworked and horribly outcoached. Otherwise they were pretty large underdogs, playing most of their games on the road.
The 2003 Ducks were the 7th seed.
The 2006 Oilers were an 8th seed.
The 2004 Flames were a 6th seed.
The 2012 Devils were a 6th seed.

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01-10-2014, 04:03 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
He fell apart in the biggest series of his career.

Which I think was the point.
The point wasnt to showcase Lundqvist's shortcomings. The point is that you dont need to be Hasek or Roy to carry a mediocre team or an underdog to the SCF.

His massive hatred for Sather denies him the ability to understand that there are in fact examples of individuals who pulled an Atlas and carried their team to the zenith or at least as close as you could.

I'd love to hear him tell me the 1996 Panthers -- a team built off an expansion draft -- were somehow better than the 2012 Rangers.

They werent. Except in goal.

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01-10-2014, 04:10 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
He fell apart in the biggest series of his career.

Which I think was the point.
Im not sure what his point is, really. Would he like to trade Lundqvist for the mighty Cam Ward? My initial interaction with him started when he started comparing Lundqvist to Roy and Hasek, to which I agreed Lundqvist isn't in that stratosphere. But Ill take him any day over ****ing JS Giguere and Cam Ward.

Sather should just dump Lundqvist and look into his crystal ball to see the random goalie that'll get incredibly hot for 2 months between April and June.

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01-10-2014, 04:42 PM
  #742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
The point wasnt to showcase Lundqvist's shortcomings. The point is that you dont need to be Hasek or Roy to carry a mediocre team or an underdog to the SCF.

His massive hatred for Sather denies him the ability to understand that there are in fact examples of individuals who pulled an Atlas and carried their team to the zenith or at least as close as you could.

I'd love to hear him tell me the 1996 Panthers -- a team built off an expansion draft -- were somehow better than the 2012 Rangers.

They werent. Except in goal.
No, but you need a good team to actually win the Cup. Giguere made the SCF, good for him; He didn't actually win it until he had a very good team in front of him. Same with Hasek. You're right, Hank has never had a miraculous playoff run. Ok...

I'm pretty sure Hank has the most playoff wins post-lockout, except for Marc-Andre Fleury, who has 2/3 best skaters in the world on his team.


Last edited by aufheben: 01-10-2014 at 04:49 PM.
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01-10-2014, 04:42 PM
  #743
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No, but you need a good team to actually win the Cup. Giguere made the SCF, good for him; He didn't actually win it until he had a very good team in front of him. Same with Hasek.
We finished 1st in 11-12.

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01-10-2014, 04:51 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
We finished 1st in 11-12.
Yeah we came closer to the SCF than we have since what, 1997? 15 years before then? The guy deserves more than one chance with a good team.

Is it uncommon for a team to only make it to the Conference Finals, then take the next step the following year?

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01-10-2014, 05:24 PM
  #745
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We finished 1st in 11-12.
Might be time to get the stories straight. Was the '11-12 team a paper tiger that was lucky to reach the ECF (as is the case in every other thread here) or were they a cup contender sabotaged by their goalie (the silly narrative taking shape here)?

As usual, the truth lies somewhere in between

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01-10-2014, 05:28 PM
  #746
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For all the hell Sather catches around here, people still like to ignore the fact that he built a team that was up 2-1 in the CF with home ice against an inferior team.

Whose fault was it thereafter? The very players people knock for being substandard fought back to tie Games 5 and 6 after Lundqvist let in several questionable goals, only to see them lose late in the third and in overtime.

This whole thing started with the "poor Henrik" garbage. I am tired of fans putting him in an ivory tower in both victory and defeat.

I saw Eli Manning dismantle seven teams with a combined winning pct of .800 en route to two SB MVP awards. That doesnt mean I bury my head in the sand during playoff flops in 2006 and 2008 and disasters like 2010 and 2013.

Its not about individual blame. Theres no Steve Smith smoking gun. This franchise has suffered and the blame is collective, Lundqvist included regardless of how big or little of a role he played.

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01-10-2014, 05:29 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Might be time to get the stories straight. Was the '11-12 team a paper tiger that was lucky to reach the ECF (as is the case in every other thread here) or were they a cup contender sabotaged by their goalie (the silly narrative taking shape here)?

As usual, the truth lies somewhere in between
If they were a paper tiger, then what the hell were the Devils and their 40-year-old goalie?

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01-10-2014, 06:03 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you've been a fan of the Rangers for over 3 decades, you should realize how good hes been and how dumb you sound consistently bashing him during some struggles.
He was great the first 2 years and in 2012. Been slightly above average and overrated the rest of his time here.

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01-10-2014, 06:22 PM
  #749
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Another great goal for The Contract.

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01-10-2014, 07:20 PM
  #750
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Correction, make that two terrible goals scored on The Contract.

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