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Old
10-29-2013, 07:28 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
I think the U.S. brass has to be looking at the damage Kesler is doing on the wing and will probably utilize him in that role at the Olympics. Maybe pair him with a guy like Stastny who plays a cerebral game like H. Sedin and then put another sniper who can work the wall like Bobby Ryan on the other side:

Kesler-Stastny-Ryan
I don't know, USA lacks depth at centre moving Kesler to the Wing only makes that worse.

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Old
10-29-2013, 07:31 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
You can't take a guy that's struggling to adapt in a new system. For all we know, McDonagh can't play in any other system than Tortorella's. Meanwhile, you've got Erik Johnson at the top of his game over in Colorado. Jack Johnson shouldn't even be in this conversation.

The biggest problem is really that you have Byfuglien as your 7th guy. Based on his overall play for the past two seasons, he should be on the top two pairings.
The issue here is the sample size, over the course of the last year and a half McDonagh has been among the best defensive d-man in the league, I understand how poorly he's playing right now, but his entire team is struggling to adapt to AV's system. For me before seasons start I viewed McDonagh as USA's 2nd best D-Man, and my mind hasn't changed despite his slow start.

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10-29-2013, 10:46 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
The issue here is the sample size, over the course of the last year and a half McDonagh has been among the best defensive d-man in the league, I understand how poorly he's playing right now, but his entire team is struggling to adapt to AV's system. For me before seasons start I viewed McDonagh as USA's 2nd best D-Man, and my mind hasn't changed despite his slow start.
Agreed. I think the only absolute lock on defense is Ryan Suter, but McDonagh would have been my number 2 going into the year. If he's still struggling a month from now (and I think right now it's much more about the team as a whole than McDonagh), then maybe he gets left off, but right now it would be like leaving Keith off team Canada after a terrible first 10 games.


On a side note, this idea that Kesler would play wing for USA is interesting as I hadn't really considered it. There's only really 5 centres in the mix for Team USA imo though (Stepan, Stastny, Kesler, Pavelski and Backes), and I figured they would move Pavs to wing if they took them all, but moving Kesler might be the better idea. I'm not sure if taking both Stepan and Stastny is better than taking whichever winger that would be left off otherwise though.

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10-29-2013, 11:54 PM
  #704
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Kesler's hot...time to trade him for maximum value?!?

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10-30-2013, 12:51 AM
  #705
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Kesler's hot...time to trade him for maximum value?!?
and just who would you rather have ?

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10-30-2013, 12:52 AM
  #706
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Originally Posted by WhiteCurse View Post
and just who would you rather have ?
I think he's being sarcastic.

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10-30-2013, 12:56 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by aandbreatheme View Post
I think he's being sarcastic.
Sarcasm and internet don't mix

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10-30-2013, 03:26 AM
  #708
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^ It does with Comic Sans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayonara77 View Post
Kesler really deserved an assist on that second goal, major reason for it to happen with an excellent screen. Kudos to daniel on an excellent shot though.
The movement of the 5 players in the offensive zone all around was beautiful. Want to see more of that. But that goal doesn't happen without Kesler's screen.

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10-30-2013, 05:23 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
^ It does with Comic Sans.
Sorry, forgot that that was a thing.

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10-30-2013, 10:09 AM
  #710
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Despite the decent results so far, I think putting Kesler at wing with the Sedins is overall a mistake. It won't be good come playoff time, when teams deep at centre just shut down our one good line. We've seen this before with Bertuzzi-Naslund-Morrison. The team will become/is a one trick pony.

From a Money-puck perspective, having Kesler on the 2nd line centre gives us two play-driving lines as opposed to one. That's ~40mins of positive Corsi/play-driving vs. ~22mins we currently enjoy with a loaded top line.

Furthermore, having Kesler with the Sedins takes away from Burrows. Yes Kesler is better on the Sedins wing than Burrows, but Burr's effectiveness is similarly reduced.

Gillis should be flipping a top4 dman for a playmaking top6 winger to balance the line up. Let's just say hypothetically, the Canucks trade Bieksa+pick to Philly for Voracek. The top 6 could look like this:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Voracek

as opposed to what it currently is:

Sedin-Sedin-Kesler
Higgins-Santorelli-Burrows

Also, since Torts isn't afraid to give the Sedins more defensive responsibility, it would give a Kesler-centered 2nd line more offensive opportunities/ice-time (i.e. less-PK for Kesler and more O-zone starts).

This is what I feel is best for the team.

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10-30-2013, 10:18 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by stromboner View Post
Let's just say hypothetically, the Canucks trade Bieksa+pick to Philly for Voracek.

This is what I feel is best for the team.
Is this what is best for a non-playoff team? Do the Flyers trade a young talent for a 32 year old defenseman? I would say definately not.

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10-30-2013, 10:33 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Is this what is best for a non-playoff team? Do the Flyers trade a young talent for a 32 year old defenseman? I would say definately not.
I guess Edler for Voracek would be more fair. The idea was to show how moving a dman could balance the line-up and hopefully make the team overall better, by making better use of Kesler's defensive skills (i.e. having him at centre) and preserving his offensive output (i.e. giving him a good playmaker on his own line).

It's kind of along the lines of how the Sharks, Kings, and Bruins are built. They have balanced lineups.

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10-30-2013, 10:57 AM
  #713
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Originally Posted by stromboner View Post
I guess Edler for Voracek would be more fair. The idea was to show how moving a dman could balance the line-up and hopefully make the team overall better, by making better use of Kesler's defensive skills (i.e. having him at centre) and preserving his offensive output (i.e. giving him a good playmaker on his own line).

It's kind of along the lines of how the Sharks, Kings, and Bruins are built. They have balanced lineups.
what does NTC mean? Hypotheticals still must take into account thus.

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10-30-2013, 11:01 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by stromboner View Post
I guess Edler for Voracek would be more fair.
That would likely be the minimum asking price. Problem with that deal is, the Canucks would be left without a top notch point man on the PP and puckmover. Solve one problem and create another...

I also wouldn't move any core pieces until you see how they look under the new coaching staff for a prolonged period of time. Torts/Sullivan have been known to work wonders with dmen and you could really live to regret moving a guy like Edler if he takes another step forward, especially with that contract.

Would prefer to move lesser assets for a lesser forward. A guy like Fleischmann/Moulson/Ott.

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11-20-2013, 12:22 AM
  #715
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With the way Kesler is playing right now, we won't go far in the playoffs. I have given him 20 games, and outside of the stint with the Sedins he has been plain inadequate offensively. Today, like MS said, I felt he actually dragged down our second line. Unlike Burrows he hasn't gotten prime scoring chances. Burrows will eventually turn things around because he is actually getting those chances and even creating those chances. The same cannot be said about Kesler. I'm worried.

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11-20-2013, 12:24 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Canuckee View Post
With the way Kesler is playing right now, we won't go far in the playoffs. I have given him 20 games, and outside of the stint with the Sedins he has been plain inadequate offensively. Today, like MS said, I felt he actually dragged down our second line. Unlike Burrows he hasn't gotten prime scoring chances. Burrows will eventually turn things around because he is actually getting those chances and even creating those chances. The same cannot be said about Kesler. I'm worried.
Been saying since the 2010 loss to the Hawks that this team will go as Kesler and Burrows do.

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11-20-2013, 12:32 AM
  #717
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he looks like a 3rd liner that somehow deluded himself into thinking he's ovechkin

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11-20-2013, 12:36 AM
  #718
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Originally Posted by pahlsson View Post
he looks like a 3rd liner that somehow deluded himself into thinking he's ovechkin
He looks like a player that used to have an elite first step and high end speed but has slowly lost it to injury.

Kesler, not unlike Booth created a lot of offense from their ability to win races for the puck. This season, Kesler seems to lose as many foot races as he wins.

Some team out there would throw the kitchen sink at Gillis at the deadline to add Kesler. If the Canucks are on the outside looking in, it may be time to seriously listen to these offers.

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11-20-2013, 12:41 AM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
He looks like a player that used to have an elite first step and high end speed but has slowly lost it to injury.

Kesler, not unlike Booth created a lot of offense from their ability to win races for the puck. This season, Kesler seems to lose as many foot races as he wins.

Some team out there would throw the kitchen sink at Gillis at the deadline to add Kesler. If the Canucks are on the outside looking in, it may be time to seriously listen to these offers.
Absolutely have not problem trading him. Heck even if we are on the inside looking out.


It seems to me that for the last 3-4 years we have been trying to find someone to "play" with Kesler.

As a top level player he should be anchoring a line. Hes been used with the Sedins to get him going.

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11-20-2013, 12:46 AM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Absolutely have not problem trading him. Heck even if we are on the inside looking out.


It seems to me that for the last 3-4 years we have been trying to find someone to "play" with Kesler.

As a top level player he should be anchoring a line. Hes been used with the Sedins to get him going.
That's what has worried me. He hasn't produced, or even been effective, outside of his stint with the Sedins. If his value continues decreasing, perhaps it would be best to trade him to a contender at the deadline. I loved the player Kesler was, but the way he is playing now worries me that he will soon lose his value and we would be stuck with him. It's tough saying this, but I think Kesler may need to be traded, hopefully for a younger center or as part of a package.

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11-20-2013, 12:57 AM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
It seems to me that for the last 3-4 years we have been trying to find someone to "play" with Kesler.

As a top level player he should be anchoring a line. Hes been used with the Sedins to get him going.
Completely agree. He's been forcing it too much and does not utilize his line mates. He has even lost a step after all the injuries. Kes has never shown ability to make players around him better to be considered a top level player. He looks like a significantly less skilled OV out there looking for his shots all the time. His inside-outside deke through two defenders and blocked wrist shot attempt makes me want to throw TV controller nowadays. Still my favorite player and I hope he turns around but seems less likely... maybe time to package him and his ego for a trade.

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11-20-2013, 12:59 AM
  #722
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Kesler's inability to be a consistent producer is frustrating.

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11-20-2013, 01:10 AM
  #723
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Oh hey. People are actually talking about Kesler's ****** play now.

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11-20-2013, 01:12 AM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Absolutely have not problem trading him. Heck even if we are on the inside looking out.


It seems to me that for the last 3-4 years we have been trying to find someone to "play" with Kesler.

As a top level player he should be anchoring a line. Hes been used with the Sedins to get him going.
This sounds familiar!!!

Okay I'll stop patting myself on the back. I won't become a sponsor and gloat about it either

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11-20-2013, 01:14 AM
  #725
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Oh hey. People are actually talking about Kesler's ****** play now.
I gave him a quarter of a season after a whole healthy offseason to train. He's still going to get another 20 games by Gillis atleast before he likely even considers trading him.

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