HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIV

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-18-2013, 06:36 PM
  #426
SimplySensational
Heard of Hough
 
SimplySensational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: VA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,586
vCash: 888
Dreger on NHL network talked about Hiller and Neuvirth going to Edmonton, and talked about the asking price being a young core forward or Klefbom. Logical deduction would be Klefbom would be the Capitals asking price.

Though the problem is, do the Capitals view Klefbom as ready for the NHL right now if not, its just another defenseman in the crowded Bears defense.


Last edited by SimplySensational: 10-18-2013 at 07:24 PM.
SimplySensational is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 06:52 PM
  #427
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,207
vCash: 500
the caps have 3 defensemen with a full season of nhl experience under their belt. 4 if you count Erskine. Is Oscar better than Urbom or Schmidt or Orlov? If the Caps get him, he replaces one of them. The Caps are going no where with a rookie defenseman I the top 4 plus two rookies on the 3rd pair.

txpd is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 07:14 PM
  #428
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,670
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
If fairly certain you wouldn't be very open to the 'well McPhee knows better' if it was used to combat your argument in a different discussion.

And as far as the question at hand goes Wilson clearly made a concerted effort to not fight as much after he had the NHL 1st round pick target placed on his back and instead work on improving other parts of his game last season so why wouldn't he be able to continue to do the same thing this season if sent back?
I've never claimed McPhee doesn't know hockey. I just believe he's had his fair time to show us what he can do. Next faulty argument?

You would have to ask McPhee why the organization believes he would be a target.


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 10-18-2013 at 07:39 PM.
CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 08:06 PM
  #429
Burakovsky95
Registered User
 
Burakovsky95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Maryland, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
Dreger on NHL network talked about Hiller and Neuvirth going to Edmonton, and talked about the asking price being a young core forward or Klefbom. Logical deduction would be Klefbom would be the Capitals asking price.

Though the problem is, do the Capitals view Klefbom as ready for the NHL right now if not, its just another defenseman in the crowded Bears defense.
If we were to get Klefbom I'd assume he'd be sent to Hershey and play top minutes. Probably lead to a corresponding minor trade that helps Hershey out with the overcrowding. Or I have no idea what I'm talking about and he'd get paired with Greenie off the bat because Oates is insane lol.

Burakovsky95 is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 08:10 PM
  #430
californiacapsfan
Registered Voter
 
californiacapsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berzerkeley, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,768
vCash: 500
Just saw this on NHL.com...

Oil call up Grebeshkov

Could a trade for Smid be in the works?

Neuvy?

californiacapsfan is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 08:42 PM
  #431
tmljeh19
Registered User
 
tmljeh19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 862
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
So we spent a first round pick, dropped Forsberg, shifted Fehr to Center, and traded Perreault for a player who we are shoehorning into the lineup as Hendricks 2.0.
First off wtf does Forsberg have to do with anything? Sure Hendy had all those qualities but Wilson has about 10 times the offensive potential. So what's your point?

tmljeh19 is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 08:58 PM
  #432
KevinM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: D.C.
Country: United States
Posts: 807
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmljeh19 View Post
First off wtf does Forsberg have to do with anything? Sure Hendy had all those qualities but Wilson has about 10 times the offensive potential. So what's your point?
Wilson surpassed Forsberg on the organizational depth charts evidently which is part of the reason he was moved. How does Wilson have 10 times the offensive potential as Hendricks? Hendricks did after all play on our top line with Ovi and Backstrom under Hunter hockey

He's like a younger slightly bigger Hendricks playing a Hendricks role on the fourth line. He's not going to develop into a quality power forward playing 6 minutes a night as a grinder with bad line mates. I can't think of any organization that gives their best offensive prospects sheltered minutes on anything below third line duties. Galchenyuk, Nichushkin, Eakin, Barkov, Tarasenko, Conacher, Nyquist, Andersson, Silfverberg, Tatar, Huberdeau, no one develops talent on the fourth line, it's just stupid.

KevinM is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 09:44 PM
  #433
Chokingdogs
Registered User
 
Chokingdogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
Dreger on NHL network talked about Hiller and Neuvirth going to Edmonton, and talked about the asking price being a young core forward or Klefbom. Logical deduction would be Klefbom would be the Capitals asking price.

Though the problem is, do the Capitals view Klefbom as ready for the NHL right now if not, its just another defenseman in the crowded Bears defense.
i have no clue who this rimer guy is, but he mentions the oil, and goalie, and there's no neuvirth anywhere....


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Josh-...3#.UmHw01B2F8F

Chokingdogs is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 11:17 PM
  #434
dillyboy93
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 452
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chokingdogs View Post
i have no clue who this rimer guy is, but he mentions the oil, and goalie, and there's no neuvirth anywhere....


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Josh-...3#.UmHw01B2F8F
Hes right sometimes but Bob Mckenzie and Dreger & Lebrun have all mentioned Neuvirth and I'd trust them over him anyway, especially Bobby

dillyboy93 is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 11:21 PM
  #435
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
So in your opinion the countless number of guys sent back to juniors every season with the idea that they will be best served by playing important roles for their junior teams as opposed to very minor roles with their NHL teams are all being short changed because in reality it is practicing with the pros that is the best route?

I couldn't disagree more.
I am talking about Wilson.

You are talking in broad strokes. Not sure why, as I never mentioned "countless number of guys". So, why draw that conclusion, Millhaus? Is that your thing?

This is about Wilson. He is a man child. And IMO, he's best served up here, if what we all want is his development to continue in a manner that should maximize his abilities. Is it best for the team? Not sure. Big cap hit, little production, so far.

I don't really know why you are attempting to talk about something else here.

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
10-18-2013, 11:31 PM
  #436
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Much of practice is broken up into lines. He's going to be spending most of his practice time with the likes of Volpatti, Beagle, Latta, and Fehr. And only so much learning can occur in a practice scenario. You need a certain amount of exposure to real game situations, where opponents will be less predictable and plays aren't mapped out ahead of time. He needs to learn how to think the game offensively.


Just because a coach is in the NHL doesn't mean he's "better" than a coach in the OHL. It's a different skillset to coach in those two different leagues, and some are better suited for one or the other. See Dale Hunter as example A. There are plenty of NHL staffs that aren't suited to be developmental staffs.
Mike Vellucci and his staff are not Dale Hunter and the group in London, there's no mistaking that. But they are the same organization that produced Tyler Seguin, James Neal, and three members of the Capitals (Wilson, Carrick, and Neuvirth). The improvement Carrick had in his one year in Plymouth after being in the USHL is absolutely remarkable. A certain amount of credit for turning a 5th round pick into a player who cracked an NHL team in a single season definitely has to go to Vellucci and his staff. Same with starting Wilson along his transition into an offensive player over the past season and the playoffs before. The staff in Plymouth are professionals too, they know what they're doing.
The NHL staff and trainers have already had plenty of time with Wilson during development camp, rookie camp, training camp, and the early season. He doesn't need to be around the trainers and nutrional staff constantly to get their advice. The Capitals staff should have already imparted what he needs to work on and how he should train, just like they do to all the players they did send back to juniors or Europe or the NCAA.
Come on. You are saying thing to fit your argument. Sure, maybe it possible, but so is the Caps winning the Cup this year, with Oates winning the Adams.

If the OHL coaches are better then the Caps coaches, then McPhee is a worse GM than even I give him credit for....for having them lead his team.

That is plain bunk.

We all know you hate Wilson being here, we get it. But there are obviously some valid reasons for Wilson's staying, whether you like it or not.

Frankly, Wilson is a waste of Cap space, but a lot less so than Erat, Laich, Neuvirth, Erskine, and the like.

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 12:59 AM
  #437
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,539
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Come on. You are saying thing to fit your argument. Sure, maybe it possible, but so is the Caps winning the Cup this year, with Oates winning the Adams.
Which of my points do you think are incorrect? I notice you didn't address a single point of my argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
If the OHL coaches are better then the Caps coaches, then McPhee is a worse GM than even I give him credit for....for having them lead his team.
It's a different skillset to develop and coach teeenagers than it is to coach professionals. As I mentioned, see Dale Hunter. He's established a terrific system in the OHL that continuously produces quality NHLers and gets quality results, yet he was limited in the NHL and got nothing out of our star players.

Mystlyfe is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 01:11 AM
  #438
BrettXNA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
What about Grabovski's play suggests that he wasn't equally responsible for the indeptitude of that line? His single even strength goal all the way back in the first game of the season on a defensive breakdown from Chicago? If anything, the eye test has suggested that Brooks Laich has been the best player on that line over the past few games.

It's clear that line wasn't working, so they changed it up. People have been calling for Erat to be promoted and for Fehr to be bumped off center for a while. Both of those things happened. While I personally would have put Laich between 25 and 42, it's not the end of the world they put Grabovski there.
Laich has never been a legitimate second line player and never will be. The organization has been known to play favorites for years and his being still on the 2nd line is just more evidence. Same with Johansen still being on 1st line. As for Brouwer he is just plain useless outside of the powerplay.

BrettXNA is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 01:58 AM
  #439
troyerlaw
Life is party again
 
troyerlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
We all know you hate Wilson being here, we get it. But there are obviously some valid reasons for Wilson's staying, whether you like it or not.
Actually i think many, if not most, would agree that it's better for a talented 19-year-old to play loads of minutes, incl. PP, and to be the leader of an OHL team, rather than to play 6 minutes a night in the NHL and to be the team's designated fighter.

There may indeed be valid reasons we don't know about, but from afar it looks like the team backed itself into this position with a series of other moves that didn't work out well, including the Erat trade.

troyerlaw is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 02:01 AM
  #440
troyerlaw
Life is party again
 
troyerlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
You could get all of the above in 6 minutes a night from a $400k tough guy.

We (or someone else) should be developing the skill portion of his game. Not relegate him to designated tough guy.
This

troyerlaw is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 02:19 AM
  #441
troyerlaw
Life is party again
 
troyerlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koized View Post
Chimera should also be on the 4th line. At this point in their careers Fehr brings much more to the table as a winger, but Oates and his boner for handedness keeps the guy with no hockey IQ on the 3rd line.
Yes. Here are some guys who continue to get lots of minutes despite lack of production - 90, 25, 20.

At least with 21 and 16, i see recent flashes of speed or strength or scoring potential. Don't feel same way about 25, 20 or even 90.

And 10, i just want to see more of him so that we can see what he is, where he fits.

By this point we definitely know who Stone Hands is. He is fast as s*** but nothing comes of it. I used to feel same way about perreault and (long ago) zednick - lots of speed and energy, with limited results. But at least those guys occasionally scored and in perreault's case, occasionally scored two in one game, or scored a goal thru sheer energy when the rest of the team was dead flat. Chimera is a hard worker, but i'd put several others on 3rdline before him.

MoJo ... he seems untouchable on the first line now, and i'm not sure why. Maybe he'll come around. Maybe ovie likes playing with him. It's a head-scratcher for me.

troyerlaw is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 02:33 AM
  #442
troyerlaw
Life is party again
 
troyerlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
How is he supposed to develop while playing 6 minutes a night? It is painfully obvious where he belongs, Plymouth. His stats were good in the OHL last year, but they could be much better. He needs offensive situations to develop. He needs the puck on his stick. He needs time on the powerplay. He's not going to get that on a consistant basis in Washington.
Exactly right.

Teams now seem to err on the side of playing their 18- and 19-year-olds, including guys like Hall and nugent-hopkins who, though clearly NHL-ready in skill and speed, did not seem fully grown and in fact have suffered repeated injuries.

With Wilson, i think he is physically ready, but would have benefitted from playing 18-20 min a night and on the PP and for a coach who was more concerned with his overall, longterm development as a player. There is a high level of coaching in the OHL. I agree with the earlier comment about a coach not necessarily being 'better' just b/c he is in the NHL.

With these blue-chip prospects, it just seems like there is less patience now. They are thrown right into the NHL.

On that front, i'm curious to see how Forsberg will fare in Nashville. That's another one who seems like he might have benefitted from one more developmental year before playing nightly in NHL.

troyerlaw is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 03:27 AM
  #443
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,670
vCash: 500
7 games into an 82 game season.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 04:17 AM
  #444
Mr Gone
Green = Man of Glass
 
Mr Gone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,312
vCash: 520
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
7 games into an 82 game season.
We are not in the east anymore. We cant just turn it on on the end and think we can win the division. The truth is of all the years the Caps won the east. Only one season was there a second playoff team. The Caps were the best of the worse division in the league.


Last edited by Mr Gone: 10-19-2013 at 04:41 AM.
Mr Gone is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 06:06 AM
  #445
RandyHolt
Opposite George = GM
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 24,379
vCash: 50
That game has changed a ton since it was just accepted to send a kid back.

Players are much bigger at a younger age. The NHL game is much softer, dare I think softer than OHL games. So soft, I am lucky to remember 1 hit from the last game. Scrums happy once every 25 games if that.

The old games were terrorized by countless demonized players. If a team didn't have a 200 PIM minute guy, they had 3, or they were worthless and weak. And often 1 was an opposition top player. Nolan, Lindros. Hunter. Stevens, the list went on and on. Holt tried to murder Sundstrom at a game I went to and Tiger cross checked him in the back of the head. Semenko. Kocur, the Grim Reaper, Probert, Domi, Nystrom, Simon, McSorley, McClelland, McRae, Baxter and Barry Beck, everyone had one to fear for your prize prospects life. They were all ****ing crazy and unpredictable. It was a mans game, and quite frankly, almost all 18 year olds were feared to eaten alive. It was no place for a child. Now teams may have a guy with 100 minutes but he barely plays. And he is politically correct. Matt Bradley, Matt Hendricks. Oh la la. I wonder if the average weight of an NHLer is on the decline.

The game has changed. Society has changed. Kids eat their Wheaties in the morning with milk that has growth hormones in it. Their steak at dinner does too.

I just feel like the send em back crowd are living in the past. GMs may have less patience but when they all do it, maybe its just a sign of the modern times. I for one welcome it as a players career is finite. Teams in general seem so short on talent, through expansion and the changing of the game to filter out anyone that can't skate like a ballerina.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 10-19-2013 at 08:26 AM.
RandyHolt is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 08:13 AM
  #446
troyerlaw
Life is party again
 
troyerlaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Can we send Erskine to Plymouth?

troyerlaw is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 09:17 AM
  #447
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Which of my points do you think are incorrect? I notice you didn't address a single point of my argument.


It's a different skillset to develop and coach teeenagers than it is to coach professionals. As I mentioned, see Dale Hunter. He's established a terrific system in the OHL that continuously produces quality NHLers and gets quality results, yet he was limited in the NHL and got nothing out of our star players.
The bolded part, that OHL coaching is better than NHL. Ask anyone "in the game", and that answer would be a chuckle. You might get a few stragglers to agree with you, but that's it.

In the same vein that certain high schools are good at preparing kids to be doctors. But if they are ready for med school, they don't stay in high school "because the teaching is better"

And your 2nd comments just made my points for me, about Hunter. Wilson as done the OHL, he needs what the next levels can give him, per how Hunter couldn't "get nothing" out of stars (which even that I tend to disagree with, as Carlson, Hotlby, etc played their best under Hunter.... But whatever)


Last edited by Ridley Simon: 10-19-2013 at 09:26 AM.
Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 09:23 AM
  #448
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyerlaw View Post
Actually i think many, if not most, would agree that it's better for a talented 19-year-old to play loads of minutes, incl. PP, and to be the leader of an OHL team, rather than to play 6 minutes a night in the NHL and to be the team's designated fighter.

There may indeed be valid reasons we don't know about, but from afar it looks like the team backed itself into this position with a series of other moves that didn't work out well, including the Erat trade.
Yes, for most 19 year olds (like Carrick, Burakovsky, etc). But not for Wilson. People seem to make these broad brush comments about this issue, when we are talking about ONE specific person/situation.

Ridley Simon is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 09:44 AM
  #449
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
This is about Wilson. He is a man child. And IMO, he's best served up here, if what we all want is his development to continue in a manner that should maximize his abilities.
If you are talking about his abilities as a 4th line goon for the most then I agree, keep him up and watch the paltry puck skills he currently has erode further and further as he realizes he is not good enough to beat NHL players with his current skill set and loses all confidence. No reason to want more from a mid 1st round pick I suppose...

Millhaus is offline  
Old
10-19-2013, 10:45 AM
  #450
Ridley Simon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 5,177
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
If you are talking about his abilities as a 4th line goon for the most then I agree, keep him up and watch the paltry puck skills he currently has erode further and further as he realizes he is not good enough to beat NHL players with his current skill set and loses all confidence. No reason to want more from a mid 1st round pick I suppose...
Again, such extremes from you Millhaus. Someone disagrees with you, and you have to point to some extreme examples as a means to win your argument?

So you've extrapolated all of that about Wilson from this 7 games? Please do NOT throw my feelings about canning George, and this teams failings over 7 games back at me. One is a continuation of years of problems and mismanagement. The other is the first few games of a young hockey players pro career. It's one year. If Wilson looks lost at end of year, they can send him to Hershey next year.

Edit--- and this is exactly how Scott Stevens, Chris Pronger, Chris Gratton, James Van Riemsdyk, and others started their pro careers. Scott Stevens in particular, was a young pugilist, an he turned out ok (if you want another extreme). Wilson isn't Eric Fehr.

Ridley Simon is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:40 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.