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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIV

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Old
11-05-2013, 12:37 PM
  #926
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What's frustrating about Green is his mental game/decision-making does not seem to be evolving or maturing. Last couple of games, Schmidt has been covering up for some of his mistakes, and that's obviously bassackwards.

When the guy is on, he's key to our success. But every year, he has these stretches where he's at best ineffective and at worst a detriment to team success. He's paid like a top-end, first-rate D man and those guys generally are not as maddeningly inconsistent as Green is.

I'm not ready to give up on him, but his act of up-and-down, roller-coaster play is definitely getting stale.

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11-05-2013, 12:39 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Leech made tons of mistakes as did Murphy and Letang does too right now. The fact is that this is the way of life for an offensive Dman who has the puck and takes chances.

Erik Karlsson has huge brain farts himself. Terrible ones. Thats the nature of the beast. The more you have the puck and make plays the more mistakes you will make.

Elway and Brett Farve were known as gunslingers and two of the best QBs in history (an offensive dman is akin to a QB in hockey). They threw lots of interceptions tho b/c they took chances that other QBs would not. Thats part of what made them great.
So the theory is to get a good LD for Green and live with the mountain of mistakes he'll make? Those guys you listed were more competent than Green defensively(less maybe Karlsson) and they matured their game. Not seeing that from Green.

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11-05-2013, 12:42 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
$6+ million should buy 70-80 points + average to good defense. See Pietrangelo and Karlsson and soon to be Subban. If Green is capable of 70 points with Schultz, then he should be capable of 70 points with Schmidt.
The key point is he is not capable. His numbers were inflated by BB pound hockey system. The team was giving up none stop odd man rushes but it was ok were we out scoring teams. Now the team is not scoring like it used to and the team is stuck with a lazy, disinterested, sulking Mike Green.

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11-05-2013, 12:45 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
So the theory is to get a good LD for Green and live with the mountain of mistakes he'll make? Those guys you listed were more competent than Green defensively(less maybe Karlsson) and they matured their game. Not seeing that from Green.
Look...I watched pretty much every televised game Gonchar and Murphy had for us.

Also I saw ALOT of Leech since we had WWOR growing up in addition the the Rags being on ESPN alot and in the Caps division.

I've seen a good amount of Karlsson in his young career.

ALL these guys made a boatload of mistakes. The difference was that they had D partners that covered up for them alot.

In Green's case he was the one covering up for the inept Shamo and Schultz in addition to his other duties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post
The key point is he is not capable. His numbers were inflated by BB pound hockey system. The team was giving up none stop odd man rushes but it was ok were we out scoring teams. Now the team is not scoring like it used to and the team is stuck with a lazy, disinterested, sulking Mike Green.
Only a matter of time before you showed up. You have curious timing when it comes to Green...only showing up to stomp on him when he isn't playing well.

However you dissappear when he is busy scoring OT game winners (you know he has 8 right?)

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...areer-ot-goal/

What you call "disinterest" Karl Alzner and Adam Oates refer to as "Calm"

Hmmm..Oates+Alzner or reknowned hockey expert Mr Gone? Who to choose


Last edited by BobRouse: 11-05-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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11-05-2013, 01:03 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
That second line sucks. It needs two different wingers.
Actually, I think its fine. one of those guys needs to be traded to make room for Fehr.

BUT, they are prob the defacto 3rd line, in ES minutes. I dont care if they get 10min a night, and are on par with Volpatti-Latta-Wilson.

Perhaps the 3 talented yet headcase players are best suited together anyway?

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11-05-2013, 01:23 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Only a matter of time before you showed up. You have curious timing when it comes to Green...only showing up to stomp on him when he isn't playing well.

However you dissappear when he is busy scoring OT game winners (you know he has 8 right?)

http://www.russianmachineneverbreaks...areer-ot-goal/

What you call "disinterest" Karl Alzner and Adam Oates refer to as "Calm"

Hmmm..Oates+Alzner or reknowned hockey expert Mr Gone? Who to choose
"Only a matter of time before you showed up" I have been singing the same tune for over 4+ years now. The good from years ago will never out weigh the bad we still live with today.

"However you dissappear when he is busy scoring OT game winners" And when was the last one? Or even better at what point does his play today out way what he did in the past? Even at his best the team was giving up none stop odd man rushes. And don't even bother the "someone to play with" line. He is paid like a number one he should be picking up someone else's game.

"Karl Alzner and Adam Oates refer to as "Calm"" That's coach talk lip service bs

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11-05-2013, 01:44 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Mr Gone View Post
"Only a matter of time before you showed up" I have been singing the same tune for over 4+ years now. The good from years ago will never out weigh the bad we still live with today.

"However you dissappear when he is busy scoring OT game winners" And when was the last one? Or even better at what point does his play today out way what he did in the past? Even at his best the team was giving up none stop odd man rushes. And don't even bother the "someone to play with" line. He is paid like a number one he should be picking up someone else's game.

"Karl Alzner and Adam Oates refer to as "Calm"" That's coach talk lip service bs
Mr Gone

LET ME HIT YOU WITH SOME KNOWLEDGE!!:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...highlight=gone

BAM!

Notice your last post was around #88...coincidentally right around the time Green was at a low point last year.

As SOON as he started scoring...you VANISHED from this thread.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!!

(Notice I was defending him the whole time even when he was not playing well and made that costly mistake vs the Isles...YOU on the other hand love to pick and choose your spots)

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11-05-2013, 01:54 PM
  #933
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I cannot recall a memorable Green hit for 2-3 years now. Sure he plays more physical than Murph or Gonchar, but those guys didn't really have to hit, to be effective. Their defense with less physicality, was about on par with Greens.

Maybe Green needs a mentor. At least he FINALLY learned to protect himself more. I wonder if he learned that from Carlson.

We have been saying we need a 1LD all along. But he did get Alzner, yet seemed to be spacing out more than usual. That pairing is broken up.

Without ever getting a true all situation 1LD, fans are curious to explore what he would fetch in attempts to make a pairing work.

If he can't play with Alzner, I am not sure who he is going to do better with.
He cross checked that Ranger in the head in last years playoffs (the guy was on his knees). That was memorable?

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11-05-2013, 01:58 PM
  #934
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This one in addition to the Kulikov one earned him some suspension time.

Again he hasn't hit nearly as much since Oates took over. I am of the belief Oates realizes his importance to the team and the need to keep him perserved.

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11-05-2013, 01:59 PM
  #935
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I've always been pretty pro-Green, but I'm more and more ready to be done with him. If they could work out a couple of moves that switch out a winger (preferably Brouwer) and Green for another good RD and ideally a new center, I would be all for it.

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11-05-2013, 02:00 PM
  #936
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Green and Alzner were paired in the 2nd half of last season and were excellent. They were very good in the playoffs as well. The year before Green and Hamrlik were right up there with Karlzner as our best pair but Hunter prefered the power duo of Wideman/Schultz

Also I will contend Alzner is not an optimal partner for Green but by far the best he's had.

Green needs a Buekeboom or a Samuelsson or a Seabrook or an Oprik. Big, physical, mean.

Instead we give him soft butter muffins in guys like Schultz.


I was RIPPING GMGM long long before it became fashionable to do so. The same people who rip GMGM now don't get accused of "Schtick" and they don't get banned for doing the very same things I did back then.

Now GMGM is getting better but he has long neglected the D. Its just now that people are finally realizing it (over the last couple years) and complaining.


Green has been a victim of GMGMs lack of diligence when it comes to the D. In fact it cost the Caps a stanley cup and Green at least 1 Norris.
Oh please.

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Old
11-05-2013, 02:05 PM
  #937
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Oh please.
Also Mike Ridley was soft as Charmin.

Not only that he was downright scared of fans. He was the only player who would not exit via the regular exit at Caps games in the old Cap Center/US Air Arena. All the other guys from Langway to Stevens to Gartner to May to Kypreos would come out and sign stuff for all of us who waited after games.

Never did Ridley. He went through the Press exit.

Therefore I'm not a big fan and since you have his name in your handle it transfers to you as well.

True story

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11-05-2013, 02:08 PM
  #938
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This thread is becoming popcorn worthy.

I wish I could make GIF's so I could illustrate Green's "calmness".

Having said that - I don't know what his value would be anymore given his injury history.

It's true offensive d-men are generally high risk and make their share of mistakes. But also generally speaking it's from an ill-advised whirly move or ill advised pass. In the case of Green it's simple puck retrieval or receiving a basic pass.

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11-05-2013, 02:09 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
He cross checked that Ranger in the head in last years playoffs (the guy was on his knees). That was memorable?
It seems like the only hits from him are suspension worthy.

There is no middle ground, it seems. He decides to try to wreck someone once a year.

Either he is leading the league in goal scoring, or won't shoot.

There is no consistency to his game. Sure he is not a steady eddie, but we are not talking normal complaints of an offensive Dman either. Its more than hitting.

He has brain farts with the puck. With the puck is when Gonch Murp and Green are supposed to excel. And no, I am not talking when about to get clobbered in a playoff game. Which is an area Green has improved actually

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11-05-2013, 02:14 PM
  #940
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He has brain farts with the puck. With the puck is when Gonch Murp and Green are supposed to excel. And no, I am not talking when about to get clobbered in a playoff game. Which is an area Green has improved actually
Wait...so Goocher never had a brainfart with the puck???


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11-05-2013, 02:27 PM
  #941
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Look...I watched pretty much every televised game Gonchar and Murphy had for us.

Also I saw ALOT of Leech since we had WWOR growing up in addition the the Rags being on ESPN alot and in the Caps division.

I've seen a good amount of Karlsson in his young career.

ALL these guys made a boatload of mistakes. The difference was that they had D partners that covered up for them alot.

In Green's case he was the one covering up for the inept Shamo and Schultz in addition to his other duties.
Green didn't cover up for anyone, matter of fact, during those days no one was covering up for anyone.

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11-05-2013, 02:37 PM
  #942
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I think every single defensemen in the league has cost his team a breakaway, or if not, give them more time. I could counter with Green bum rushed late in game 7 vs Monty for the eventual GWG. The story in that game was not just Halak, as I rememeber it. Was that Gonch turnover on our crappy ice!

Had the goalie saved their bacon, we wouldn't even remember either turnover.

It's the plays you forget, that also need to be factored in. The entire body of work.

At least Gonchar appeared to care, and got a body on Streaka. Green just seems... I dunno.... bored with the game. He could use a kick in the arse. Scenery change perhaps.

While I know the grass is likely not greener, dont think I am demanding he be traded immediately to save the franchise.

But if a trade was presented where a GM overpays lets say for sake of discussion, Rouse, would you immediately rule it out because we dont want to make the same mistake again / Murphy has a ring? Is he untouchable?

Just because we have no one better, does not make him a better player than he is.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 11-05-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old
11-05-2013, 02:47 PM
  #943
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RH

With all due respect my man....Gonchar WAS FAR WORSE than Green in terms of "lazy/calm/indifference". He got whooped for a while there and rightfully earned the nickname "Goocher"

The guy seemed like he couldn't care less and would constantly fumble pucks away. Only differnce is that he didn't have the makeup speed Green did to account for the times he did.

That gaffe was in OT...in game 6..that led to the Pens directly winning that series.

Green's gaffe vs Montreal was more on Carlson than anyone (when Moore scored right?). Immediately when I saw that I wondered what exactly Carlson was doing there. Have to see it again but it sure looked like JC beared the brunt of that one (and Varlamov who needed to make that save)

But out of the three Murphy was the most culpable. The guy was pretty awful in his own zone here despite being paired with a rock in Stevens (86-87 and 87-88 at least)

RE: Trade

Well lets face it...ANYONE can be traded depending on the offer. So yeah if Nashville offers Shea Weber 1:1 for Mike Green you'd be a fool to turn that down. But thats not happening.

I guess it depends on the offer really.

But what peeves me is some just say "trade Green" like they said "jettison Semin" thinking its addition by subtraction. They are just flat out wrong. They were wrong about Semin and would be wrong about Green. He just happens to be the new whipping boy.

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11-05-2013, 02:52 PM
  #944
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Mr Gone

LET ME HIT YOU WITH SOME KNOWLEDGE!!:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...highlight=gone

BAM!

Notice your last post was around #88...coincidentally right around the time Green was at a low point last year.

As SOON as he started scoring...you VANISHED from this thread.

WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!!

(Notice I was defending him the whole time even when he was not playing well and made that costly mistake vs the Isles...YOU on the other hand love to pick and choose your spots)
4+ years of *****ing about Mike Green I now pick my spots. And that has little to do with Mike Green. I wake up this thread as the HF crowd start to turn on him. And that seems to be happening more and more. Even NBW recently said he would be open to trading him.

I just like to be here to say I told you so as people start to turn.

But don't worry I will ask you to take your poster down.


Last edited by Mr Gone: 11-05-2013 at 03:00 PM.
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Old
11-05-2013, 02:55 PM
  #945
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Mike Green has the puck poise of a young Martin Skoula.

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Old
11-05-2013, 02:59 PM
  #946
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4+ years of *****ing about Mike Green I know pick my spots. And that has little to do with Mike Green. I wake up this thread as the HF crowd start to turn on him. And that seems to be happening more and more. Even NBW recently said he would be open to trading him.

I just like to be here to say I told you so as people start to turn.

But don't worry I will ask you to take your poster down.
Honest question...

When Green scored that OT winner in game 2 vs the Rangers did you celebrate or did you punt your yorkie out of the window followed by your TV?

If I recall even BCF gave Green props after he won that game for us. Didn't see you around then.

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Old
11-05-2013, 03:33 PM
  #947
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#Oilers GM Craig MacTavish & Oilers President Kevin Lowe both on pressbox seating chart for #Caps-#Isles. Oilers face #FLAPanthers tonight

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11-05-2013, 03:39 PM
  #948
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I'm at the level of acceptance regarding Green. I think mostly because I was so worried about the worst-case scenario (him not recovering from injury and Caps eating that contract) that everything else is mild in comparison.

In an ideal world, Green probably doesn't belong on a Cup team. He is not really reliable enough to be your 1st pair horse, and too expensive to play anywhere else. Of the teams that have won the Cup, I don't know how many had a guy on the 1st pairing that needed a super partner to shield his defensive shortcomings.

In any case, I think for various reasons Caps are unlikely to trade Green. There has to be political will, the balls to do it, and a trading partner that will give you what you want. Extremely unlikely, especially since it's not like Caps' have talented young D pushing up the chart (Orlov, sigh).

IMO like others said, best scenario for the Caps' situation would be to find Green a good partner, or more accurately, Caps need another Alzner-type player for their top-4. There should be enough cap space fat and assets to accomplish that..

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11-05-2013, 03:57 PM
  #949
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
I'm at the level of acceptance regarding Green. I think mostly because I was so worried about the worst-case scenario (him not recovering from injury and Caps eating that contract) that everything else is mild in comparison.

In an ideal world, Green probably doesn't belong on a Cup team. He is not really reliable enough to be your 1st pair horse, and too expensive to play anywhere else. Of the teams that have won the Cup, I don't know how many had a guy on the 1st pairing that needed a super partner to shield his defensive shortcomings.

In any case, I think for various reasons Caps are unlikely to trade Green. There has to be political will, the balls to do it, and a trading partner that will give you what you want. Extremely unlikely, especially since it's not like Caps' have talented young D pushing up the chart (Orlov, sigh).

IMO like others said, best scenario for the Caps' situation would be to find Green a good partner, or more accurately, Caps need another Alzner-type player for their top-4. There should be enough cap space fat and assets to accomplish that..
Denial - Green's not injury prone, damaged goods who tops out at 10 even strength points.

Anger - See typical GDT comments about Mike Green.

Bargaining - Maybe Green would live up to his potential if we paired him with Rod Langway or Larry Robinson.

Depression - See typical postseason GDT comments about Mike Green.

Acceptance - See Artilector's post above.

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11-05-2013, 04:12 PM
  #950
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Honest question...

When Green scored that OT winner in game 2 vs the Rangers did you celebrate or did you punt your yorkie out of the window followed by your TV?

If I recall even BCF gave Green props after he won that game for us. Didn't see you around then.
I jumped out of my seat and said "FU Mike Green!" and was happy my team won.

Your affections for Mike Green is a like a girl in a bad relationship. You continue to hold on the past and the few moments he treated you well. And refuse to see the truth about your man.

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