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How would you spend our Cap Money?

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Old
07-18-2005, 03:54 PM
  #51
jt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
either that or we go the lets-suck-now-so-we-can-get-the-no.1-pick mode of operations. don't know if fans will fill the seats in that route ... kings need people to come more than ever after the lockout.
Actually I think the best route to go is where they don't out-and-out suck but instead they play quality character veteran players (like Conroy, Luc, Army, Klatt, and Dempsey) until the kids are ready to take their spots.

IMO, the most damaging thing they could do is sign good-but-not-great UFA's who are 31 and over and aren't going to win a Cup...but in the meantime will block the kids from getting ice time and roster spots WHEN they EARN them. And that's my fear about them signing guys like Demitra, Palffy and Kariya. They're not going to win any Cups with them so they'll just be taking up space and ice time that the kids should get at some point. Maybe not to start the season...maybe not even in 05-06...but soon...very soon.

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07-18-2005, 04:04 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
Actually I think the best route to go is where they don't out-and-out suck but instead they play quality character veteran players (like Conroy, Luc, Army, Klatt, and Dempsey) until the kids are ready to take their spots.

IMO, the most damaging thing they could do is sign good-but-not-great UFA's who are 31 and over and aren't going to win a Cup...but in the meantime will block the kids from getting ice time and roster spots WHEN they EARN them. And that's my fear about them signing guys like Demitra, Palffy and Kariya. They're not going to win any Cups with them so they'll just be taking up space and ice time that the kids should get at some point. Maybe not to start the season...maybe not even in 05-06...but soon...very soon.
then the kings miss the playoffs and won't earn the extra cash thats associated with making the playoffs...couple that with a possible decline in attendance if they don't do well on the ice.

hockey may not recover in socal for many years...would that be acceptable?

and who's to say that playing the younger kids would get the kings a cup in the future? its still a big unknown just like saying demitra and palffy won't get you the cup anytime soon.

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Last edited by jfont: 07-18-2005 at 04:12 PM.
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Old
07-18-2005, 04:16 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by jfont
then the kings miss the playoffs and won't earn the extra cash thats associated with making the playoffs...couple that with a possible decline in attendance if they don't do well on the ice.

hockey may not recover in socal for many years...would that be acceptable?

and who's to say that playing the younger kids would get the kings a cup in the future? its still a big unknown just like saying demitra and palffy won't get you the cup anytime soon.
Honestly. I don't care about making the playoffs. I care about one thing: winning a Cup. Actually I care about two things: winning a Cup and developing the kids to win those Cups.

If I'm PA I'm looking at the long-term and the way to make the Kings a long-term financial success (chase next year's dollars instead of chase tomorrow's dollars) is to develop the kids.

And I certainly don't think playing the kids would guarantee a Cup in the future. But history tells us that not one single Cup winner has built their team any other way. They haven't done it by trading for a 27 yr old Palffy and they haven't done it by signing a 30 yr old Demitra. That's just not how Cups have been won and I don't think the Kings will be the first-ever team to do it. Yeah, I could be wrong...but those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

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07-18-2005, 07:30 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
Honestly. I don't care about making the playoffs. I care about one thing: winning a Cup. Actually I care about two things: winning a Cup and developing the kids to win those Cups.

If I'm PA I'm looking at the long-term and the way to make the Kings a long-term financial success (chase next year's dollars instead of chase tomorrow's dollars) is to develop the kids.

And I certainly don't think playing the kids would guarantee a Cup in the future. But history tells us that not one single Cup winner has built their team any other way. They haven't done it by trading for a 27 yr old Palffy and they haven't done it by signing a 30 yr old Demitra. That's just not how Cups have been won and I don't think the Kings will be the first-ever team to do it. Yeah, I could be wrong...but those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
even if the kings open up a couple of roster spots for the kids like cammy and brown, they still need to sign some UFAs to fill the roster.

frolov-conroy-cammy
luc(UFA)-army-klatt
cowan-belanger-avery
brown-pirnes-RW

unless you're satisfied with kotsopoulus and barney to fill the roster, kings will be short and need some UFAs to fill the roster.

edit: added conroy...duh!


Last edited by jfont: 07-18-2005 at 07:43 PM.
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Old
07-18-2005, 07:33 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
even if the kings open up a couple of roster spots for the kids like cammy and brown, they still need to sign some UFAs to fill the roster.

frolov-center-cammy
luc(UFA)-army-klatt
cowan-belanger-avery
brown-pirnes-RW

unless you're satisfied with kotsopoulus and barney to fill the roster, kings will be short and need some UFAs to fill the roster.
You forgot Conroy, and I think we'll be pretty happy with TK on the 4th line with Pirnes and Brown.

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Old
07-18-2005, 07:36 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
You forgot Conroy, and I think we'll be pretty happy with TK on the 4th line with Pirnes and Brown.
well then, the roster is set.

i'm not happy with it, but its set...

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Old
07-18-2005, 08:14 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
Honestly. I don't care about making the playoffs. I care about one thing: winning a Cup. Actually I care about two things: winning a Cup and developing the kids to win those Cups.
Playoffs are important.
I think you can only put yourself in the position to win the cup. There are so many variables and just plain luck involved that even the perfect team can run into a hot goaltender and poof. One cockeyed bounce, or rut in the ice. (The Buffalo Bills are the perfect example of the fickleness of the sports gods). The playoffs are also where you get your players, especially the kids, the experience of being in that pressure cooker situation. The playoffs are where your teams mettle is tested, from there determine the next step to actualizing the goal, fine tune so you have the chance to win the cup. Just playing in the first round by luck is not productive, in this I agree wholeheartedly with you. There's been too much satisfaction with that kind of performance from Kings management.

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Old
07-18-2005, 09:22 PM
  #58
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just heard on hacksaw that the kings are negotiating a 1 year deal with jason allison...

can anyone else confirm this?
are they going in that direction?

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07-18-2005, 09:26 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
just heard on hacksaw that the kings are negotiating a 1 year deal with jason allison...

can anyone else confirm this?
are they going in that direction?
Personaly i thin i'm one of the only Kings fans which would be thrilled with this. He has became so underrated and hated here its retarted due to 1-2 stupid things. If he truelly is no longer injured he is one of my top 5 choices for a center in the league

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Old
07-18-2005, 09:47 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnThGrt
Personaly i thin i'm one of the only Kings fans which would be thrilled with this. He has became so underrated and hated here its retarted due to 1-2 stupid things. If he truelly is no longer injured he is one of my top 5 choices for a center in the league
I would love to see Ally back. I just hope there is an inusurance clause or anything. He will be a number 1 center and move Conroy to number 2.

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Old
07-18-2005, 09:50 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by AnThGrt
Personaly i thin i'm one of the only Kings fans which would be thrilled with this. He has became so underrated and hated here its retarted due to 1-2 stupid things. If he truelly is no longer injured he is one of my top 5 choices for a center in the league
if he is healthy, he would be a much cheaper alternative out there...i like demetra but JA at the top of his game is one of the best in the league. that is if he is healthy enough...

i too would welcome him back...

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Old
07-18-2005, 09:57 PM
  #62
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The Kings like all other teams will have time to negotiate with all their players before they turn into unrestricted free agents August 1. I hope the Kings re-sign Luc, Ally(If, healthy), Straka, and Palffy who would all be unrestricted free agents. I doubt Deader is healthy and I think we will pass on Carter. Those 4 guys combined wouldn't make a about 10+ million a year?

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07-18-2005, 09:58 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
if he is healthy, he would be a much cheaper alternative out there...i like demetra but JA at the top of his game is one of the best in the league. that is if he is healthy enough...

i too would welcome him back...
I think Allison and Norstrom would probably come to blows... which wouldn't end well for #41. I think he wore out his welcome here... but frankly, I doubt if he ever plays at that level again, if at all.

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07-18-2005, 10:07 PM
  #64
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ok. time to jump in

i have been watching these threads and this board for several years. I love it that you all actually have a clue about the Kings. All the posts on this thread are very well done

what i havent seen is your insights on the impact of the new rules. if they open the game up they type of player we need may (I repeat may) change. Faster and more skilled forwards and D will be at a premium and "defensive" (read slow clutch and grab) players will hit the streets.

I am wondering therefore, if Karyria and Demitra and the like might be very benificial assets in this situation.

Andy loves system guys that play his style of defense first (gee sounds like NJ) game. What may actually be a beneficial question related to the UFAs is what type of team AM really wants to have now.

What do you all think.

btw... as a season ticket holder I would LOVE to have JA back if he is healthy.

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07-18-2005, 10:33 PM
  #65
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resign Alexander Frolov: 3yrs - 7.5 Million (2.5M)
resign Eric Belanger: 2 yrs - 1.8 Million (900K)
resign Michael Cammalleri: 3 yrs - 3 million (1M)
resign Luc Robitaille: 1 yr - 1.5 million (1.5M)
resign Joe Corvo: 2 yrs - 1.2 Million (600K)
resign Esa Pirnes: 3 yrs - 1.5 Million (500K)
resign Mike Weaver: 1 yr - 450K (450K)
sign Pavol Demitra: 4 yrs - 20 Million (5M)
sign Glen Murray: 3 yrs - 12 Million (4M)
sign Alexei Zhitnik: 2yrs - 5 Million (2.5M)
sign Mike Dunham: 1 yr - 1 million (1M)

Total added to next years payroll: 19.9M

Team payroll: 35,548,000

i think im off but not by more than 1 million

2005/2006 Los Angeles Kings

Frolov - Demitra - Murray
Robitaille - Conroy - D.Brown
Cammalleri - Armstrong - Klatt
Avery - Belanger - Kostopoulos

Norstrom - Miller
Visnovsky - Zhitnik
Gleason - Dempsey

Garon
Dunham

F scratches/minors: Cowan, Pirnes, Barney, Flinn, Lehoux, Crosby
D scratches/minors: Corvo, Grebeshkov, Weaver, Petiot, J.Johnson


Last edited by Malakian#13: 07-18-2005 at 11:07 PM.
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Old
07-18-2005, 11:20 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakian#13
resign Alexander Frolov: 3yrs - 7.5 Million (2.5M)
resign Eric Belanger: 2 yrs - 1.8 Million (900K)
resign Michael Cammalleri: 3 yrs - 3 million (1M)
resign Luc Robitaille: 1 yr - 1.5 million (1.5M)
resign Joe Corvo: 2 yrs - 1.2 Million (600K)
resign Esa Pirnes: 3 yrs - 1.5 Million (500K)
resign Mike Weaver: 1 yr - 450K (450K)
sign Pavol Demitra: 4 yrs - 20 Million (5M)
sign Glen Murray: 3 yrs - 12 Million (4M)
sign Alexei Zhitnik: 2yrs - 5 Million (2.5M)
sign Mike Dunham: 1 yr - 1 million (1M)

Total added to next years payroll: 19.9M

Team payroll: 35,548,000

i think im off but not by more than 1 million

2005/2006 Los Angeles Kings

Frolov - Demitra - Murray
Robitaille - Conroy - D.Brown
Cammalleri - Armstrong - Klatt
Avery - Belanger - Kostopoulos

Norstrom - Miller
Visnovsky - Zhitnik
Gleason - Dempsey

Garon
Dunham

F scratches/minors: Cowan, Pirnes, Barney, Flinn, Lehoux, Crosby
D scratches/minors: Corvo, Grebeshkov, Weaver, Petiot, J.Johnson
I would be happy with this line-up although I might want to re-sign Straka or Carter.

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Old
07-19-2005, 12:27 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakian#13
resign Alexander Frolov: 3yrs - 7.5 Million (2.5M)
resign Eric Belanger: 2 yrs - 1.8 Million (900K)
resign Michael Cammalleri: 3 yrs - 3 million (1M)
resign Luc Robitaille: 1 yr - 1.5 million (1.5M)
resign Joe Corvo: 2 yrs - 1.2 Million (600K)
resign Esa Pirnes: 3 yrs - 1.5 Million (500K)
resign Mike Weaver: 1 yr - 450K (450K)
sign Pavol Demitra: 4 yrs - 20 Million (5M)
sign Glen Murray: 3 yrs - 12 Million (4M)
sign Alexei Zhitnik: 2yrs - 5 Million (2.5M)
sign Mike Dunham: 1 yr - 1 million (1M)

Total added to next years payroll: 19.9M

Team payroll: 35,548,000

i think im off but not by more than 1 million

2005/2006 Los Angeles Kings

Frolov - Demitra - Murray
Robitaille - Conroy - D.Brown
Cammalleri - Armstrong - Klatt
Avery - Belanger - Kostopoulos

Norstrom - Miller
Visnovsky - Zhitnik
Gleason - Dempsey

Garon
Dunham

F scratches/minors: Cowan, Pirnes, Barney, Flinn, Lehoux, Crosby
D scratches/minors: Corvo, Grebeshkov, Weaver, Petiot, J.Johnson
Im ok with that lineup but you are paying too much money out over too long a period of time. Shorten the deals length and that is a decent roster.

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Old
07-19-2005, 12:53 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kingz4life
I would love to see Ally back. I just hope there is an inusurance clause or anything. He will be a number 1 center and move Conroy to number 2.
Agreed, I see him as being our best option for a #1 center and if he is healthy then I definatley dont want him anywhere else but in a Kings Jersey

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07-19-2005, 02:28 AM
  #69
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If true, I wouldn't mind having Allison back as long as he could play and contribute for 70+ games. Hopefully the extended time off has helped him recover from his injuries, but I would still be hesitant in giving him a solid, guaranteed contract.

Obviously for a player like Allison (or Lindros), the guaranteed money will be lower than what a player of their caliber would sign for. Their contracts would include many various incentives ranging from the number of games played to points amassed, and a player like Allison would be worth the money (if he can fulfill them and is 100% healthy). It's a risky move, but it could very well pay off. It isn't often you find a player of Allison's abilities available, and he was the best center the Kings have had since Gretzky.

And if you take a look at what is out there to sign as a FA, there really aren't many options better than Allison. Keep in mind that he is also still 30 years old. The only other option at C that I would consider is Pavol Demitra. I'm not even going to suggest Forsberg because he is going to remain with the Avalanche.

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07-19-2005, 02:36 AM
  #70
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Dont waste your breath on Allison. I wouldn't want him back, and isn't he all but a done deal to the Leafs? Let them take that headcase literally.

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07-19-2005, 02:56 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
even if the kings open up a couple of roster spots for the kids like cammy and brown, they still need to sign some UFAs to fill the roster.

frolov-conroy-cammy
luc(UFA)-army-klatt
cowan-belanger-avery
brown-pirnes-RW

unless you're satisfied with kotsopoulus and barney to fill the roster, kings will be short and need some UFAs to fill the roster.

edit: added conroy...duh!
I'm perfectly happy with TK filling the 4th line RW spot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against signing a 1st line RW. But it's gotta be the RIGHT guy. A guy who will help create an environment on the Kings where the kids will THRIVE...not block their progress or get pissy when he's demoted to the 2nd line because Brown's ready for the 1st line. THAT is my concern with signing a guy like Palffy.

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Old
07-19-2005, 03:25 AM
  #72
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I see too many smallish, soft guys on these lists:

Carter (soft) Palffy (small) Straka (frail) Kariya (midgy) Demitra (soft)

The Kings forward core was best when it had 6'3 225 lb Allison and Deadmarsh as power forwards. They have never been replaced up front. The Kings desperately need at least 1 legit top 6 power forward on this team!

I am all for signing 1 or 2 of: Naslund, Forsberg, Palffy, Kovalev, Kariya, or Demitra. (in that order)

BUT, please add a true power forward as well: Guerin? Holik? Owen Nolan or Shanahan if they're bought out. Maybe even Martin Lapointe as a 3rd line LW.

I would covet Doug Weight as our #1 center if he's bought out.


Last edited by Peter James Bond: 07-19-2005 at 03:39 AM.
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07-19-2005, 03:56 AM
  #73
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Forward: Palffy - a must
Demitra - would be nice
Guerin - someone the Kings have been lacking for years

Defense: Blake or Pronger or suprise me!

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Old
07-19-2005, 04:26 AM
  #74
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Add or re-sign: Palffy(or a guy like Demitra), Allison, Straka, Robitaille, Zhitnik(or another top guy D-man like him), Dunham(or another low priced veteran back-up goalie), and if, possible another top 6 forward, maybe a Murray but I doubt we will spend that much.

I think we can fit that into our budget.

Frolov-Allison-Palffy(other)
Straka-Conroy-Camms/Brown
Luc-Army-Klatt
Cowan/Kostopolus-Belanger/Pirnes-Avery

Zhitnik(other)-Matty
Lubo-Dempsey
Miller-Gleason

Garon
Dunham(other)




Stanely Cup.


Last edited by Kingz4life: 07-19-2005 at 04:32 AM.
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07-19-2005, 04:57 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingz4life
AZhitnik(or another top guy D-man like him)
Zhitnik is not a top guy D-man.

http://www.nhl.com/lineups/player/8458595.html

He is severely overrated. (and he's not that highly rated) He is now 33 years old. 6 consecutive minus seasons in plus/minus. Only 8 goals total scored in last 3 years. Only 3 PP goals in last 3 years.
(Even Nathan Dempsey scored 10 goals in his last year)

There are a ton of better available D-men:

Rafalski, Neidermayer, Rathje, Aucoin, Gonchar, McGillis, Foote, and Zubov
and Pronger and Derian Hatcher may be bought out.

Also, a 40 year old Robitaille on the 3rd line? The results would be horrific. 7 goals 9 assists. minus 20 .

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