HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Sports > Mixed Martial Arts
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Mixed Martial Arts UFC, Bellator, HDNet Fights, WSOF, MFC, KOTC, One FC, and others

UFC 166: Velasquez vs Dos Santos III

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-23-2013, 04:23 PM
  #276
End of Line
Moderator
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 20,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Maybe we should wait until Cain dominates the HW division for ten years before we start comparing him to GSP or Fedor?

Just a thought.

Remember the Machida era?
Totally agree. Until we see Cain completely dominate like Fedor did, the comparison shouldn't be there.

__________________

"I don't know what the stronger emotion would be, the joy of winning or the pain of losing"-Sidney Crosby.
End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-23-2013, 10:44 PM
  #277
ck26
Free Raptor Reagan
 
ck26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Coyotes Bandwagon
Country: United States
Posts: 7,341
vCash: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
You have no clue how fast Prime Fedor was... Also, I highly doubt Cain can defend against his hip tosses.

Also, we have to consider what this fight would be fought in. I think a cage would make the fight a lot closer for Cain, but Fedor would obliterate him in the ring.
Apart from the Semmy Schillt nonsense, I generally think this is a silly argument, because the Fedor/Pride fans won't get down off their high horse and the Cain/UFC fans are generally making a different case, but this?

What do you mean by this? Do you mean Pride rules / UFC rules in general?

ck26 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 07:59 AM
  #278
Captain_Cunney
Registered User
 
Captain_Cunney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bowling Alley
Country: England
Posts: 5,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
You have no clue how fast Prime Fedor was... Also, I highly doubt Cain can defend against his hip tosses.

Also, we have to consider what this fight would be fought in. I think a cage would make the fight a lot closer for Cain, but Fedor would obliterate him in the ring.
I actually do have a pretty good clue, I did in fact watch pride before spike TV started showing reruns, thanks for the news flash.

You have no clue how fast Cain actually is for a HW, factually almost untouchable in terms of athleticism. Check out the sports science episode on him, which also dismisses the fable of his soft hands.

I don't get why he creates such an argument, he's been hype and living up to said hype since his first night in montreal, I think it was the opening bout of gsp vs serra II.

The GOAT talk gsp has received since his early days. Has everyone watched too much fox news? Me no likey Mexicans.....

Ironically it seems like just yesterday we were all debating about Fedor being a can crusher. An equally absurd debate.

Captain_Cunney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 08:06 AM
  #279
Captain_Cunney
Registered User
 
Captain_Cunney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bowling Alley
Country: England
Posts: 5,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Maybe we should wait until Cain dominates the HW division for ten years before we start comparing him to GSP or Fedor?

Just a thought.

Remember the Machida era?
I see where you are trying to go with this but what exactly would you call 11-1 in the ufc with the only blemish being what almost certainly seems like getting caught on a shot he usually evades.

All finishes with the exception of the walking corpse jds and Kongo. His ufc dominance is far greater than the dragons & approaching gsp and Silva as far as pure dominance in a division.

Captain_Cunney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 12:39 PM
  #280
MurrayBannerman
Moo Points
 
MurrayBannerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 219
Country: United States
Posts: 24,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Apart from the Semmy Schillt nonsense, I generally think this is a silly argument, because the Fedor/Pride fans won't get down off their high horse and the Cain/UFC fans are generally making a different case, but this?

What do you mean by this? Do you mean Pride rules / UFC rules in general?
It's a completely different environment. A lot of the circling techniques that Cain uses against JDS would be hard to replicate in a ring because of the shortened distance and corners.

MurrayBannerman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 12:42 PM
  #281
MurrayBannerman
Moo Points
 
MurrayBannerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 219
Country: United States
Posts: 24,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post
I actually do have a pretty good clue, I did in fact watch pride before spike TV started showing reruns, thanks for the news flash.

You have no clue how fast Cain actually is for a HW, factually almost untouchable in terms of athleticism. Check out the sports science episode on him, which also dismisses the fable of his soft hands.

I don't get why he creates such an argument, he's been hype and living up to said hype since his first night in montreal, I think it was the opening bout of gsp vs serra II.

The GOAT talk gsp has received since his early days. Has everyone watched too much fox news? Me no likey Mexicans.....

Ironically it seems like just yesterday we were all debating about Fedor being a can crusher. An equally absurd debate.
I don't buy that he has the speed and explosiveness that Fedor has. Combine that with Fedor's technique and athleticism and you have a mountain for Cain to climb.

MurrayBannerman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 01:13 PM
  #282
Avs_19
Peter the Great
 
Avs_19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 38,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
I don't buy that he has the speed and explosiveness that Fedor has. Combine that with Fedor's technique and athleticism and you have a mountain for Cain to climb.
I don't think any HW can match Cain's combination of speed, power, explosiveness, and cardio. You're showing your bias against Cain. In the other thread didn't you say you hate him because of his tattoo?

Avs_19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 01:24 PM
  #283
MurrayBannerman
Moo Points
 
MurrayBannerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 219
Country: United States
Posts: 24,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I don't think any HW can match Cain's combination of speed, power, explosiveness, and cardio. You're showing your bias against Cain. In the other thread didn't you say you hate him because of his tattoo?
I'll give you the cardio, but Fedor's hip explosion and speed were otherworldly.

I do my best to be as close to unbiased as possible. I don't like Anderson at all, but I still think he is the GOAT along with Fedor.

MurrayBannerman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 01:26 PM
  #284
MurrayBannerman
Moo Points
 
MurrayBannerman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 219
Country: United States
Posts: 24,155
vCash: 500
If we're talking speed with heavyweights, I'd have it like this

Fedor

Arlovski
Cain

MurrayBannerman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-24-2013, 06:34 PM
  #285
AndyPipkin
PSN: Lord_Of_War
 
AndyPipkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Apart from the Semmy Schillt nonsense, I generally think this is a silly argument, because the Fedor/Pride fans won't get down off their high horse and the Cain/UFC fans are generally making a different case, but this?

What do you mean by this? Do you mean Pride rules / UFC rules in general?
Personally this isn't one of the arguments that I employ, but what I think he means, besides Cains circling like he mentioned, is that Cain likes to hold guys against the wall and dirty box like Couture. With a ring you can't hold someone against the ropes. You can force them into the corner but that negates some dirty boxing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post
I see where you are trying to go with this but what exactly would you call 11-1 in the ufc with the only blemish being what almost certainly seems like getting caught on a shot he usually evades.

All finishes with the exception of the walking corpse jds and Kongo. His ufc dominance is far greater than the dragons & approaching gsp and Silva as far as pure dominance in a division.
You can make the same case for GSP. Serra caught him with a shot he usually evades and and he was only armbarred by Hughes because he over committed. Both mistakes have never happened again.

Also, Cain is extremely lucky hitting that switch made JDS smash his head on the canvas or 2 out of his last 4 wins would be by decision. He's basically got the exact same finishing percentage as GSP did up until this point in his career even though its way less likely to finish someone at WW then it is at HW.

There is no high horse here. I like Pride a lot, but there were tons of problems. As there is with the UFC. A combo of the two would be an MMA fans wet dream.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post
I actually do have a pretty good clue, I did in fact watch pride before spike TV started showing reruns, thanks for the news flash.

You have no clue how fast Cain actually is for a HW, factually almost untouchable in terms of athleticism. Check out the sports science episode on him, which also dismisses the fable of his soft hands.
I know you've watched Fedor, so you know that was the beauty with him also. He was so much faster, but Fedor had a lot more power. His body type just leaves a lot to be desired.

Now not saying Cain does't have power. He does, just not as much as you'd think. Everyone talks about how Cain's punch generated something like 2200-2300 psi. GSP at 50 pounds lighter or more can generate almost 3000 with a superman punch...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Cunney View Post
I don't get why he creates such an argument, he's been hype and living up to said hype since his first night in montreal, I think it was the opening bout of gsp vs serra II.

The GOAT talk gsp has received since his early days. Has everyone watched too much fox news? Me no likey Mexicans.....

Ironically it seems like just yesterday we were all debating about Fedor being a can crusher. An equally absurd debate.
Did you really just pull the race card? When basically every champion is a different ethnicity.

And there is no debate. Fedor crushed cans. Every fighter crushes cans. Fedor on the whole actually crushed less cans then a lot of fighters and Cain when you look at the numbers. Also GSP seems to be the best at fighting high level competition over a sustained period of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I don't think any HW can match Cain's combination of speed, power, explosiveness, and cardio. You're showing your bias against Cain. In the other thread didn't you say you hate him because of his tattoo?
That is the funny part you just listed everything Fedor had a great combo of, but on top of that he has great technique in BJJ, Judo, Sambo, sick boxing(Check out the video's where he is training fighters to slip punches and counter ) and could turn on the bar room brawler savage.

Fedor also couldn't use elbows in his GNP to make it looks worse then it actually is. His was based on pure power and speed and it was devastating. Also don't forget to mention how often Fedor could escape a guy like Nogs subs. Thats insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
I'll give you the cardio, but Fedor's hip explosion and speed were otherworldly.

I do my best to be as close to unbiased as possible. I don't like Anderson at all, but I still think he is the GOAT along with Fedor.
He'd throw quick huge punches, jump out and avoid, jump back and looking like he was going to punch you and boom you've been hip tossed. And then he's landing bombs on your face.

AndyPipkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2013, 02:42 AM
  #286
BGDDYKWL
Registered User
 
BGDDYKWL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by m9 View Post
While I agree that Cain would likely win, overlooking Fedor's power and accuracy combined with Cain's poor head movement would be a mistake. There would be a very realistic means to victory for a prime Fedor, and this is coming from a big Cain fan.
I see a lot of people bring up Fedor's huge power. The best guy he KOed was Arlovski, and we just saw him lose to a guy who fought at 170. The next best guy is Sylvia (dropping him led to the sub so I'll count it). We also saw Mercer and Couture drop Sylvia in like ten seconds. I wouldn't exactly say his resume screams ridiculous power. I like Fedor, and I also like Cain, but Cain would thoroughly dominate him. Cain should be minimum -500 against a prime Fedor. Fedor has very few realistic paths to victory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
You have no clue how fast Prime Fedor was... Also, I highly doubt Cain can defend against his hip tosses.
You've got to be kidding me. You think Fedor would put Cain on his back easier than Cain would get Fedor there? Cain would have Fedor on his back in a matter of seconds if he so chose. Fedor's only chance in this fight, and it's slim, is pulling off an armbar.

Quote:
Also, we have to consider what this fight would be fought in. I think a cage would make the fight a lot closer for Cain, but Fedor would obliterate him in the ring.
Cain would beat Fedor in a cage, ring, alley, Red Square, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
You clearly don't understand a throw. It's not about strength, it's about leverage.

Fedor is a combat sambo champion and Olympian. Its basis is in judo, aka hip tosses. You're insane if you think Cain is nearly as good as him at that.

Not to mention, Fedor maximized it by combining it with incredibly strategic striking. He'd put you into a position where you couldn't counter it.
As I mentioned above, you don't think Cain could put Fedor on his back? There is zero question this would happen, and quite easily too. I'm really surprised anyone thinks Fedor even would have a decent chance in that fight, let alone win it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayBannerman View Post
I do my best to be as close to unbiased as possible. I don't like Anderson at all, but I still think he is the GOAT along with Fedor.
This is a separate discussion. I like Fedor and hate Anderson, but I can understand both being right at the top in a GOAT conversation. That is completely different than talking about who would win in a fight. Fedor could be the GOAT (based on career) and still get smoked by Cain.

BGDDYKWL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-25-2013, 01:02 PM
  #287
Ballgarath
Registered User
 
Ballgarath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
I see a lot of people bring up Fedor's huge power. The best guy he KOed was Arlovski, and we just saw him lose to a guy who fought at 170. The next best guy is Sylvia (dropping him led to the sub so I'll count it). We also saw Mercer and Couture drop Sylvia in like ten seconds. I wouldn't exactly say his resume screams ridiculous power. I like Fedor, and I also like Cain, but Cain would thoroughly dominate him. Cain should be minimum -500 against a prime Fedor. Fedor has very few realistic paths to victory.


You've got to be kidding me. You think Fedor would put Cain on his back easier than Cain would get Fedor there? Cain would have Fedor on his back in a matter of seconds if he so chose. Fedor's only chance in this fight, and it's slim, is pulling off an armbar.


Cain would beat Fedor in a cage, ring, alley, Red Square, etc.


As I mentioned above, you don't think Cain could put Fedor on his back? There is zero question this would happen, and quite easily too. I'm really surprised anyone thinks Fedor even would have a decent chance in that fight, let alone win it.


This is a separate discussion. I like Fedor and hate Anderson, but I can understand both being right at the top in a GOAT conversation. That is completely different than talking about who would win in a fight. Fedor could be the GOAT (based on career) and still get smoked by Cain.
100% agree

Ballgarath is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.