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Franchise Greatest Players

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07-15-2005, 06:02 PM
  #1
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Franchise Greatest Players

Who is the greatest player for each NHL franchise? IMO, these are the "golden 30" that have the greatest accomplishments for each team.

New Jersey Devils - Martin Brodeur
New York Islanders - Bryan Trottier
New York Rangers - Andy Bathgate
Philadelphia Flyers - Bobby Clarke
Pittsburgh Penguins - Mario Lemieux

Boston Bruins - Bobby Orr
Buffalo Sabres - Dominik Hasek
Montreal Canadiens - Jean Beliveau
Ottawa Senators - Cy Denneny (modern day: Alexei Yashin)
Toronto Maple Leafs - Frank Mahovlich

Atlanta Thrashers - Ilya Kovalchuk
Carolina Hurricanes - Ron Francis
Florida Panthers - Pavel Bure
Tampa Bay Lightning - Martin St. Louis
Washington Capitals - Rod Langway

Chicago Blackhawks - Bobby Hull
Columbus Blue Jackets - Rick Nash
Detroit Red Wings - Gordie Howe
Nashville Predators - No greats yet
St. Louis Blues - Brett Hull

Calgary Flames - Al MacInnis
Colorado Avalanche - Patrick Roy
Edmonton Oilers - Wayne Gretzky
Minnesota Wild - No greats yet
Vancouver Canucks - Markus Naslund

Anaheim Ducks - Paul Kariya
Dallas Stars - Ed Belfour
Los Angeles Kings - Wayne Gretzky
Phoenix Coyotes - Dale Hawerchuk
San Jose Sharks - Evgeni Nabokov


Thoughts?


Last edited by Ogopogo*: 07-18-2005 at 03:59 PM.
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Old
07-15-2005, 06:04 PM
  #2
Luigi Lemieux
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you say nashville doesn't have any greats yet consider dwayne roloson one?

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07-15-2005, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
you say nashville doesn't have any greats yet consider dwayne roloson one?
Roloson has been in the top 7 vote getters for the Vezina trophy two years in a row. That is a great accomplishment. Granted, that does not put him in the top 50 goalies of all time but, it is a modest amount of greatness.

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07-15-2005, 06:18 PM
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Montreal I would say Richard instead of Beliveau.

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07-15-2005, 06:19 PM
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Modano over Belfour. *enter "he's not great he's only been hanging around padding his stats with slightly above average seasons" argument*

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07-15-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Roloson has been in the top 7 vote getters for the Vezina trophy two years in a row. That is a great accomplishment. Granted, that does not put him in the top 50 goalies of all time but, it is a modest amount of greatness.
then why not include world cup goalie and nhl all star tomas vokoun for the preds?

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07-15-2005, 06:20 PM
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I'd say Kimmo Timonen, Tomas Vokoun, or Scott Walker have been the best Predator -- they're not "great" but they're the faces of that franchise. Also, I'd say Modano is arguably a better Star than Belfour.

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07-15-2005, 06:25 PM
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Vancouver Canucks: Pavel Bure over Markus Naslund
New York Rangers: Mark Messier over Andy Bathgate
Ottawa Senators (modern day): Daniel Alfredsson (Chara has only been a star player for one year)
Calgary Flames: Lanny McDonald over Al MacInnis (they even modeled their new team logo after him)
Dallas Stars: Mike Modano over Ed Belfour
San Jose Sharks: Owen Nolan over Evgeni Nabokov

and I think Steve Yzerman might give Gordie a run for his money.

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07-15-2005, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Metamorphosis
then why not include world cup goalie and nhl all star tomas vokoun for the preds?
All Star game doesn't constitute greatness as you know, Dark. Post season all star and he would be on the list.

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07-15-2005, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Modano over Belfour. *enter "he's not great he's only been hanging around padding his stats with slightly above average seasons" argument*
LOL.

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07-15-2005, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
All Star game doesn't constitute greatness as you know, Dark. Post season all star and he would be on the list.
you think an absence of a superstar has done more for Nashville than Vokoun has?

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07-15-2005, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
New York Rangers - Andy Bathgate
Bathgate certainly doesn't belong to be mentioned ahead of Brian Leetch, Mark Messier, Mike Richter, Rod Gilbert or Eddie Giacomin.

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07-15-2005, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Vancouver Canucks: Pavel Bure over Markus Naslund
New York Rangers: Mark Messier over Andy Bathgate
Ottawa Senators (modern day): Daniel Alfredsson (Chara has only been a star player for one year)
Calgary Flames: Lanny McDonald over Al MacInnis (they even modeled their new team logo after him)
Dallas Stars: Mike Modano over Ed Belfour
San Jose Sharks: Owen Nolan over Evgeni Nabokov

and I think Steve Yzerman might give Gordie a run for his money.
Interesting thoughts.

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07-15-2005, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
you think an absence of a superstar has done more for Nashville than Vokoun has?
I think Vokoun is a very good goalie, he just hasn't achieved greatness yet. Perhaps this is his year in 2005-06?

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07-15-2005, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
I think Vokoun is a very good goalie, he just hasn't achieved greatness yet. Perhaps this is his year in 2005-06?
I just don't see how you figure Vezina candidate makes Roloson a superstar, but Vokoun's world cup goalie and all star selection don't

also, I agree with the sentiment of putting Richard ahead of Beliveau and I'd also put Gaborik ahead of Roloson.

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07-15-2005, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Bathgate certainly doesn't belong to be mentioned ahead of Brian Leetch, Mark Messier, Mike Richter, Rod Gilbert or Eddie Giacomin.
Bathgate won a Hart trophy, was a Hart runner up and was 9 times a top 7 NHL scorer. Although they are all very good, I don't think any of those other Rangers can boast that kind of excellence.

By my system, I have Bathgate as the #11 scorer of all time.

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07-15-2005, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Bathgate won a Hart trophy, was a Hart runner up and was 9 times a top 7 NHL scorer. Although they are all very good, I don't think any of those other Rangers can boast that kind of excellence.

By my system, I have Bathgate as the #11 scorer of all time.
Leetch, Calder, 2 Norris and a Conn Smythe. More GP as a Ranger. More points. 32 fewer goals. 284 more assists. 252 more points. Second leading scorer all time for the Rangers, leader in assists.

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07-15-2005, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
I just don't see how you figure Vezina candidate makes Roloson a superstar, but Vokoun's world cup goalie and all star selection don't

also, I agree with the sentiment of putting Richard ahead of Beliveau and I'd also put Gaborik ahead of Roloson.
Beliveau has 2 Harts and 4 Hart runner ups along with 10 Stanley Cups. Richard has one Hart and 2 runner ups along with 8 Stanley Cups. Richard was a slightly better scorer but, the Hart trophies give Beliveau the edge, IMO.

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07-15-2005, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Leetch, Calder, 2 Norris and a Conn Smythe
Messier, Stanley Cup

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07-15-2005, 06:36 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Leetch, Calder, 2 Norris and a Conn Smythe
I agree, Leetch was an excellent player - one of the greatest players ever. But, his Norris trophy index of 29 puts him a little behind Bathgate's scoring index of 41.5.

They are both phenomenal but, Bathgate dominated his era more than Leetch dominated his.

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07-15-2005, 06:38 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Messier, Stanley Cup
Messier and Bathgate are very close in greatness but, much of Messier's greatness took place while he was in Edmonton. Bathgate accomplished more in a Ranger uniform than Messier did. But, again, both are phenomenal.

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07-15-2005, 06:40 PM
  #22
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There's more to greatness than point indexes and trophy votes.

Rocket Richard lit a fire of passion for hockey under the ass of Montreal that has yet to be rivaled. Beliveau and Lafleur idolized Richard.

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07-15-2005, 06:41 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogopogo
Messier and Bathgate are very close in greatness but, much of Messier's greatness took place while he was in Edmonton. Bathgate accomplished more in a Ranger uniform than Messier did. But, again, both are phenomenal.
Leetch More GP as a Ranger. More points. 32 fewer goals. 284 more assists. 252 more points. Second leading scorer all time for the Rangers, leader in assists. And a Stanley Cup. Is also the franchise leasder in playoff scoring. Bathgate isn't in the top 25.

By that note, Bathgate is behind Gilbert, Leetch and Ratelle. Messier is behind Bathgate (38 points but he played 21 fewer games).

Messier won a Hart and Pearson in 92 with the Rangers.

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07-15-2005, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
Leetch More GP as a Ranger. More points. 32 fewer goals. 284 more assists. 252 more points. Second leading scorer all time for the Rangers, leader in assists. And a Stanley Cup.

By that note, Bathgate is behind Gilbert, Leetch and Ratelle. Messier is behind Bathgate (38 points but he played 21 fewer games)
Because of era, #of games scheduled games and other systemic differences, raw point totals cannot be compared. Players pre 1970 will always rank behind 1970-1995 players in raw numbers. That is just the difference in the eras. Looking beyond the numbers gives us a better idea of what they mean. Bathgate spent a lot more time near the top of the NHL scoring race than Gilbert, Leetch, Ratelle and Messier. Bathgate just played 70 game seasons during a more defensive era.

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07-15-2005, 06:46 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
There's more to greatness than point indexes and trophy votes.

Rocket Richard lit a fire of passion for hockey under the ass of Montreal that has yet to be rivaled. Beliveau and Lafleur idolized Richard.
I agree, Richard's legend in Montreal is probably equal to nobody's. My feeling is that the eyewitnesses, the Hart Trophy voters, give us great insight. They felt that Beliveau was more valuable to the Canadiens than Richard was. Because I never saw either of them play, I have to go with the eyewitnesses of the time.

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