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Sweden robbed of penalty vs Canada in 1996 world cup?

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Old
10-13-2013, 09:08 AM
  #1
siegeofshanghai*
 
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Sweden robbed of penalty vs Canada in 1996 world cup?

Messier tangle up Sundins leg at the end of the game.


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10-13-2013, 10:51 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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In 2013, it's definitely a penalty. In 1996 with 10 seconds left in the 3rd period? Doubtful.

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10-13-2013, 11:18 AM
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Big Phil
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It is hard to say if that's a penalty in 2013 at the end of the game like that, in a game that important. In a regular season game in January that is a penalty 100% of the time, regardless of era, in my opinion. But did the refs put the whistle away at this time? If they did, then they let things become more loose unless a hook or a trip is DIRECTLY the cause of preventing a goal. 17 years after the fact, this is the first I remember seeing this play, although I would have watched it live of course.

The funny thing is, I think Messier thought it was a penalty, and the Canadian defenseman behind the net (Blake?) sort of paused for a second before touching the puck as if he was expecting a whistle.

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10-13-2013, 12:51 PM
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jkrx
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In Canada Cup, the refs often missed calls that would Canada down. Just watch Sweden - Canada in '86.

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10-13-2013, 01:04 PM
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Tomas W
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Of course it should have been. Both now and in the 90-ies. Is there really any doubt about that?

Yeah lets pretend it was a "missed" call.

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10-13-2013, 01:07 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
It is hard to say if that's a penalty in 2013 at the end of the game like that, in a game that important. In a regular season game in January that is a penalty 100% of the time, regardless of era, in my opinion. But did the refs put the whistle away at this time? If they did, then they let things become more loose unless a hook or a trip is DIRECTLY the cause of preventing a goal. 17 years after the fact, this is the first I remember seeing this play, although I would have watched it live of course.

The funny thing is, I think Messier thought it was a penalty, and the Canadian defenseman behind the net (Blake?) sort of paused for a second before touching the puck as if he was expecting a whistle.
Of course, the refs put away their whistles. It was 10 seconds left at the end of the third period of a big game in the mid 90s. Only way a penalty is called there is a blatant attempt to injure, or an infraction that directly takes away a scoring chance/leads to a scoring chance.

Remember that the World Cups used NHL refs.

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10-13-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Of course, the refs put away their whistles. It was 10 seconds left at the end of the third period of a big game in the mid 90s. Only way a penalty is called there is a blatant attempt to injure, or an infraction that directly takes away a scoring chance/leads to a scoring chance.

Remember that the World Cups used NHL refs.
Nothing in the rule book says that penalties shouldn't be called just because you're at the end of the game.

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10-13-2013, 02:39 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siegeofshanghai View Post
Nothing in the rule book says that penalties shouldn't be called just because you're at the end of the game.
And yet it was common practice before the 2006 directive to referees.

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10-13-2013, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
And yet it was common practice before the 2006 directive to referees.
I agree that it was probably because of the 90s clutch and grab era.

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10-13-2013, 11:56 PM
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MadLuke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
And yet it was common practice before the 2006 directive to referees.
It is still a bit true, context of game, number of penalty called for each team, etc... still impact the chance of being called for a penalty.

Maybe less than before but it is still true.

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10-14-2013, 12:15 AM
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Hammer Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siegeofshanghai View Post
Nothing in the rule book says that penalties shouldn't be called just because you're at the end of the game.
But NHL officials have a tendency not to follow the rule book towards the end of a close game.

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10-14-2013, 12:24 AM
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MadLuke
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But NHL officials have a tendency not to follow the rule book towards the end of a close game.
The nature of penalty in the nhl make it hard on them to do so.

In football remove 10 yard, well 20 yard to the team loosing with the ball, they still can do a 70 yard play and win, in baseball it is never never over. So refere decision except for the very last second or last out they do not kill the show, do not end the game.

In hockey with less than 2 minute to go, giving the loosing team a penalty kind of end the game and at the very less kill the show for the fans.

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10-14-2013, 06:06 AM
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Sure it´s a penalty - but it, as a swede, wasn´t something that made me angry for many seconds even at the time. A "men va faaan" and some angry gesture at the tv.
Maybe it´s because I kind of like "the whistles put down". It´s a little bit of the charm of the game that you know that when it´s the third period in a winner takes it all situation it goes kind of brut. It goes against the logical part of myself - but I like it.
And as furious I was at the time we didn´t get to the finals, hockeywise I historically wouldn´t want anything other than that classic finals.

Being so close at ending the game with Garpenlövs and Alfredssons chances in the 2OT is the moments that stuck with me. Garpenlövs post being just before Canada wins it if I remember correctley. Great game. Great finals. Great tournament - probably my favourite all time.

And wasn´t the real refeere-scandal of the tournament Canadas game against Russia, were they disallowed a couple of russian-goals, more or less allowed headhunting and awarded Canada with a lot more PP´s?

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10-14-2013, 07:02 AM
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Ola
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
In 2013, it's definitely a penalty. In 1996 with 10 seconds left in the 3rd period? Doubtful.
Yeah, I have to second this.

Watch Jeff Beukeboom play in the 94' POs. On a regular basis he -- litterary -- ends up on the wrong side of a forward, puts both his arms around the waist of the forward, and throws himself and his 240 lbs to the ice. He is almost never called for anything.

I remember many sequences like this late in games from that era. I remember Ulfie, playing for NYR, throwing himself around the leg of Big E with like 19 sec left of a game and just hanging thight for a good 15 seconds whilst Big E drags him from the FO dot to the front of the net. On that play I think the ref might have raised an arm, but it was basically a normal scene.

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10-14-2013, 11:56 AM
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Messier actually made a good, albeit dirty hockey play. He was caught kind of flat footed, here comes Sundin about to go wide on him and surely center to Forsberg streaming in down the middle. Knee on knee (could've screwed his own leg up badly there)

I was never a fan of Messier's bully, cheap shot antics...but come hell or high water Sundin was not getting by

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10-14-2013, 12:00 PM
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Jussi
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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
In Canada Cup, the refs often missed calls that would Canada down. Just watch Sweden - Canada in '86.
There was no Canada Cup in '86.

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10-14-2013, 12:22 PM
  #17
jkrx
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There was no Canada Cup in '86.
The sad part is that I didn't even mean '87 but '91...

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10-14-2013, 02:24 PM
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Preisst
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Doesn't look that bad and in that era that type of play seldom, if ever, got called.

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10-14-2013, 02:45 PM
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Definitely would be called in a game today...in October...certainly would not have been called in last years playoffs

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