HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

Vancouver proposal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-16-2005, 07:24 PM
  #1
Hobey Baker
Registered User
 
Hobey Baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Charlestown
Country: United States
Posts: 7,238
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Hobey Baker
Vancouver proposal

No no no, don't worry. This isn't the tired Dumont for Sopel thread (although it has been a while). In the "If you were the GM..." thread on the main boards, a guy representing Vancouver said he'd trade Jovo for Dumont and the rights to Biron. With all the talk about needing a solid d-man lately, I thought I'd bring it here. I have to double check the salary for Jovo....

In the meantime, what do you guys think? Are we overpaying at all? I hate to break up the Briere-Hecht-Dumont line, but getting Jovo would be pretty nice.

Hobey Baker is offline  
Old
07-16-2005, 07:51 PM
  #2
Rowley Birkin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: England
Posts: 3,117
vCash: 500
i wouldn't want to move Dumont, period. Jovo's value is heavily lowered by the new CBA, salary cap, UFA age etc. you're right, he's a player i'd love to have, but losing Dumont.. i dunno. Aside from Satan he's the best scorer we have, and is reliable and consistent. And fairly cheap as well. Add the chemistry with Briere, and I'd need a great offer to move him.

Rowley Birkin is offline  
Old
07-16-2005, 08:02 PM
  #3
Hobey Baker
Registered User
 
Hobey Baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Charlestown
Country: United States
Posts: 7,238
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Hobey Baker
Jovanovski would cost $3.99M after rollback. Seems like a friendly price to me.

Hobey Baker is offline  
Old
07-16-2005, 08:07 PM
  #4
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,698
vCash: 500
As a Canucks fan, I wouldn't touch that trade. I like Dumont, but IMO, he's not worth a player such as Jovo. As for Biron, he's not an uprgrade on Cloutier and there are going to be similar goaltenders available on the UFA market. This trade wouldn't interest me at all if I was Nonis.

I think Buffalo could be a good spot for Jovo if the Canucks sign Niedermayer, but I think there would be other teams that could offer more enticing players. A package involving Jay McKee would interest me personally.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
07-16-2005, 08:11 PM
  #5
Tra La La
Registered User
 
Tra La La's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buffalo, New York
Country: Ireland
Posts: 4,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB
Jovanovski would cost $3.99M after rollback. Seems like a friendly price to me.

I think It's to high for Buffalo. The 2.9 Drury gets is The Upper Limit. I can see another 3 mil player but not higher.

Thats why I think Satan will go.

Tra La La is offline  
Old
07-16-2005, 09:13 PM
  #6
Freezerburn
Registered User
 
Freezerburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beamsville, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,082
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB
No no no, don't worry. This isn't the tired Dumont for Sopel thread (although it has been a while). In the "If you were the GM..." thread on the main boards, a guy representing Vancouver said he'd trade Jovo for Dumont and the rights to Biron. With all the talk about needing a solid d-man lately, I thought I'd bring it here. I have to double check the salary for Jovo....

In the meantime, what do you guys think? Are we overpaying at all? I hate to break up the Briere-Hecht-Dumont line, but getting Jovo would be pretty nice.
Ah the Sabres message board cliches, Celsius jerseys (dang they're sweet), and a Dumont for Sopel trade discussion (could the trade values match any better?!). Without these two discussions, I don't think that a Sabres board would be a real Sabres board. And I am actually serious about that.

As for the trade, I like it. Despite losing Dumont, Jovo would be an immediate bolster to the defense and he would improve the overall roster.

Freezerburn is offline  
Old
07-16-2005, 11:08 PM
  #7
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,145
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
I would be all over that deal like a hobo on a ham sandwich.

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 09:33 AM
  #8
Buffalo Stylee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Buffalo/Niagara
Country: United States
Posts: 1,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
i wouldn't want to move Dumont, period. Jovo's value is heavily lowered by the new CBA, salary cap, UFA age etc. you're right, he's a player i'd love to have, but losing Dumont.. i dunno. Aside from Satan he's the best scorer we have, and is reliable and consistent. And fairly cheap as well. Add the chemistry with Briere, and I'd need a great offer to move him.
werd.

Buffalo Stylee is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 09:49 AM
  #9
sabresfan3383
Registered User
 
sabresfan3383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tonawanda, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 779
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to sabresfan3383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin
i wouldn't want to move Dumont, period. Jovo's value is heavily lowered by the new CBA, salary cap, UFA age etc. you're right, he's a player i'd love to have, but losing Dumont.. i dunno.
I wholeheartedly agree, breaking up the Dumont-Briere-Hecht line is something I wouldn't do, unless its for a younger scorer ala Nash, Spezza or the like. Depending on what number pick we get maybe we could package something together to get Jovo with like the 7th to 15th pick.

sabresfan3383 is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 10:04 AM
  #10
Hobey Baker
Registered User
 
Hobey Baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Charlestown
Country: United States
Posts: 7,238
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Hobey Baker
Dumont clearly is a player on the rise, and he comes at a good price. Something to consider, though, is that despite Jovanovski having a down year last season due to injury (56 GP 7-16-23), he did outscore Dumont the two years prior. I look at our flooded list of forward prospects, and I wonder if adding the offensive punch from the blueline is worth the price of J.P. This would be contingent upon Jovanovski bouncing back to his form of 2001-02 and 2002-03 and him signing an extension (he'll be 30 in June). Last season, J.P. himself bounced back from a weak statistical year....then again, he was up for a contract.

Hobey Baker is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 11:39 AM
  #11
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB
No no no, don't worry. This isn't the tired Dumont for Sopel thread (although it has been a while). In the "If you were the GM..." thread on the main boards, a guy representing Vancouver said he'd trade Jovo for Dumont and the rights to Biron. With all the talk about needing a solid d-man lately, I thought I'd bring it here. I have to double check the salary for Jovo....

In the meantime, what do you guys think? Are we overpaying at all? I hate to break up the Briere-Hecht-Dumont line, but getting Jovo would be pretty nice.
Jovo for Dumont

well if you think that deal could get done

how about Bertuzzi, Sopel, both Sisters, and three first rounders for the 9th round pick in this years draft

jumptheshark is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 11:42 AM
  #12
Hobey Baker
Registered User
 
Hobey Baker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Charlestown
Country: United States
Posts: 7,238
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Hobey Baker
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark
Jovo for Dumont

well if you think that deal could get done

how about Bertuzzi, Sopel, both Sisters, and three first rounders for the 9th round pick in this years draft
Done deal. Where do I sign? Don't forget Biron - you can take him, too.

Hopefully, you're directing your superior posting at your fellow nuckfan who came up with the proposal.

Hobey Baker is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 12:50 PM
  #13
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,292
vCash: 500
someone who gets sarcasm


jumptheshark is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 12:56 PM
  #14
lecherous
Registered User
 
lecherous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,186
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to lecherous
If the Vancouver fans don't want to part with Jovo, how about Dumont + Biron for Ohlund

I wouldn't trade Dumont unless we got Ohlund instead of Jovo. Can you imagine what it'd be like with Kalinin and Ohlund in our first pairing? Oh man.

I might be overvaluing Ohlund, but I place him right up there with a guy like Wade Redden.

AND...Ohlund is quite a bit cheaper. With the rollback he's at $2.28m which is pretty awesome.

Honestly though, I'd rather trade a guy like Drury than Dumont, mostly because of the salaries relative to their value as players. Plus, Dumont's value goes up quite a bit just because he's a part of that amazing line.

lecherous is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 01:36 PM
  #15
trbr86
Registered User
 
trbr86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,819
vCash: 500
Wait wait wait, I think some of you should actually read the original post where I proposed Jovanovski for Dumont and Biron. I am aware that the value of the players that the two sides are exchanging are not exactly equal, but you have to understand the scenario that I envisioned the Canucks being in: The Canucks had already signed Scott Niedermayer, effectively replacing both Jovanovski's spot on the roster and his space under the salary cap. Vancouver would need to move Jovanovski to free up salary cap space to sign either a winger for the Sedinís line or a goaltender to replace Cloutierís high salary. Trading for Dumont and Biron filled both those holes considering the limited salary cap space that the team had in that scenario.

To nicely summarize the scenario...
Vancouver: + Niedermayer + Dumont + Biron, - Jovanovski - Cloutier
Buffalo: + Jovanovski, - Dumont - Biron

By no means would I do this deal if the Canucks were to go with the same team that they had in 03-04. And by certainly no means would I do the deal with Ohlund.

trbr86 is offline  
Old
07-17-2005, 02:10 PM
  #16
SedinFan*
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 10,543
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SedinFan*
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB
No no no, don't worry. This isn't the tired Dumont for Sopel thread (although it has been a while). In the "If you were the GM..." thread on the main boards, a guy representing Vancouver said he'd trade Jovo for Dumont and the rights to Biron. With all the talk about needing a solid d-man lately, I thought I'd bring it here. I have to double check the salary for Jovo....

In the meantime, what do you guys think? Are we overpaying at all? I hate to break up the Briere-Hecht-Dumont line, but getting Jovo would be pretty nice.
Bad move for the Canucks to move Jovanovski in general, unless Scott Neidermayer was going to be signed. Biron in my mind in overrated.

SedinFan* is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 06:30 AM
  #17
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 16,552
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Am I the only one who remembers that the Dumont-Briere-Hecht line was already broken up?

Sure, we'll (hopefully) see it again, but that isn't reason not to move him. I like Dumont. We all like Dumont. The chip on his shoulder he played with last season was impressive and endearing. But we have plenty of 2nd-line wingers. We're probably going to dump Biron if we have to. Jovo... now that's a player we could use no matter how inconsistent he is.

I don't though see why the Canucks would be interested. Biron over Cloutier we'd probably see as an upgrade but they'd probably figure to be more or less a lateral move. I'm sure they could find a player similar to Dumont's abilities for free this year, assuming they could get one to sign with them.

Rob Paxon is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 08:28 AM
  #18
Digable5
Registered User
 
Digable5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: B-Lo
Country: United States
Posts: 3,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
Am I the only one who remembers that the Dumont-Briere-Hecht line was already broken up?
Thank you! People seem to forget that the Sabres used these lines at the end of the season:

Dumont-Briere-Satan
Hecht-Drury-Grier

And they worked! Assuming all six players are still on the team, I expect them to start the season this way.

Digable5 is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 08:47 AM
  #19
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,145
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digable5
Thank you! People seem to forget that the Sabres used these lines at the end of the season:

Dumont-Briere-Satan
Hecht-Drury-Grier

And they worked! Assuming all six players are still on the team, I expect them to start the season this way.
I cant see us sticking wiht them same lines at this seasons start for a number of reasons. Satan may not return, We have Vanek looking for a spot on the roster, and I can see Grier as a cap casualty so that a guy like Kotalik, Pyatt, Roy, or heck even Timmy can move up and fill in at a cheaper price.

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 10:34 AM
  #20
Digable5
Registered User
 
Digable5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: B-Lo
Country: United States
Posts: 3,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
I cant see us sticking wiht them same lines at this seasons start for a number of reasons. Satan may not return, We have Vanek looking for a spot on the roster, and I can see Grier as a cap casualty so that a guy like Kotalik, Pyatt, Roy, or heck even Timmy can move up and fill in at a cheaper price.
That's why I said "Assuming all six players are still on the team". Vanek could look really good along with Roy and Afinogenov. Or even Connolly and Roy/Afinogenov. I don't doubt Grier being a "cap casualty" and Satan finding a new home. However, I wouldn't mess with a good thing if no moves are made. Minus Grier and Satan I would expect the lines to look as follows:

Dumont-Briere-Afinogenov
Hecht-Drury-Roy
Vanek-Connolly-Pominville
Pyatt/Peters-Gaustad-Mair

Kotalik is an extra forward or trade bait.

Digable5 is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 10:49 AM
  #21
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,145
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digable5
That's why I said "Assuming all six players are still on the team".
My bad I shouldve noticed that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digable5
Vanek could look really good along with Roy and Afinogenov. Or even Connolly and Roy/Afinogenov. I don't doubt Grier being a "cap casualty" and Satan finding a new home. However, I wouldn't mess with a good thing if no moves are made. Minus Grier and Satan I would expect the lines to look as follows:

Dumont-Briere-Afinogenov
Hecht-Drury-Roy
Vanek-Connolly-Pominville
Pyatt/Peters-Gaustad-Mair

Kotalik is an extra forward or trade bait.

Yeah I cant say that I would miss Grier if he is gone, I have always wanted to see Afinogenov get 1st line minutes and i think he would do great alongside Briere and Dumont. I am also very excited to see Connolly come back (yes i am crazy), and him playing wiht Vanek looks great. As for Satan I think it would be better if he did come back, but I just dont se it happening for some reason.

JOHNBOY is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 10:53 AM
  #22
kmad
Riot Survivor
 
kmad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,812
vCash: 500
Vancouver can do without trading this time around.

We can pick up a similar player to Dumont with (possibly) a smaller pricetag on the UFA market where we wouldn't have to deal our #2 defenseman (#1 offensively) and future captain.

kmad is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 11:02 AM
  #23
Digable5
Registered User
 
Digable5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: B-Lo
Country: United States
Posts: 3,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
My bad I shouldve noticed that.
No problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNBOY
Yeah I cant say that I would miss Grier if he is gone, I have always wanted to see Afinogenov get 1st line minutes and i think he would do great alongside Briere and Dumont. I am also very excited to see Connolly come back (yes i am crazy), and him playing wiht Vanek looks great. As for Satan I think it would be better if he did come back, but I just dont se it happening for some reason.
I'm a huge Connolly fan myself and I'm just as excited as you are. When so many of us Sabres fans dream of a "true No. 1" Center, we tend to forget Timmy. Yes he has struggled, but he's still young and fairly inexpensive. He'll be huge for us if he can realize his potential. Well worth the risk. Besides, Vanek would do well having a playmaking center on his line. Afinogenov would then be given the shot at first line minutes to either produce or prove he's not a top tier player. Adding Pominville to that pair, pretty much gaurantees no defense will be played, but hopefully they'll spend their whole time on the ice pressuring the opposing teams goalie.

Digable5 is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 11:03 AM
  #24
Rowley Birkin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: England
Posts: 3,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digable5
That's why I said "Assuming all six players are still on the team". Vanek could look really good along with Roy and Afinogenov. Or even Connolly and Roy/Afinogenov. I don't doubt Grier being a "cap casualty" and Satan finding a new home. However, I wouldn't mess with a good thing if no moves are made. Minus Grier and Satan I would expect the lines to look as follows:

Dumont-Briere-Afinogenov
Hecht-Drury-Roy
Vanek-Connolly-Pominville
Pyatt/Peters-Gaustad-Mair

Kotalik is an extra forward or trade bait.
I am a fan of Max, but he doesn't merit a 1st line spot at the moment. For me, we have to keep Miro, or sign a replacement.

I agree with dumping Grier, and i would dump or trade Pyatt and Connolly as well. For me, Pyatt is only a 4th liner, and Tim doesn't even make the roster. And i would keep Kotalik around. I don't know why he isn't more popular in Buffalo. He's a great scorer, with low trade value at the moment. Moving him makes no sense.

Another player I definately try to shop is Drury. Especially now with the cap. He is way over paid.

Rowley Birkin is offline  
Old
07-18-2005, 11:26 AM
  #25
JOHNBOY
BUFFALO SABRES
 
JOHNBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver NC
Country: United States
Posts: 10,145
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to JOHNBOY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digable5
No problem.


I'm a huge Connolly fan myself and I'm just as excited as you are. When so many of us Sabres fans dream of a "true No. 1" Center, we tend to forget Timmy. Yes he has struggled, but he's still young and fairly inexpensive. He'll be huge for us if he can realize his potential. Well worth the risk. Besides, Vanek would do well having a playmaking center on his line. Afinogenov would then be given the shot at first line minutes to either produce or prove he's not a top tier player. Adding Pominville to that pair, pretty much gaurantees no defense will be played, but hopefully they'll spend their whole time on the ice pressuring the opposing teams goalie.
Yeah with game about to be opened up I dont think that this line should have to many problems. Yeah I honestly beleive Timmy is gonna have a break out season and even if he doesnt better his play in his own zone, he just has to produce offensivley. Im thinkin like about 15 goals 35 assists for Tim.


JOHNBOY is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.