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The Cam Ward RAGE POST. Rage Against the Machine

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:01 PM
  #376
HankClerval
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Made Punk View Post
There's a difference between percentage and percentiles.
A very good point. But it's a meaningful distinction. Which is more important?

"Forever .500" used to mean both "forever 50th percentage" and "forever 50th percentile".

Now "forever .500" seems to mean "forever 50th percentage" and "forever lower than 50th percentile".

Yay semantics!

--hank

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:11 PM
  #377
RodTheBawd
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Originally Posted by HankClerval View Post
LOL.

So what are you arguing, exactly?

--hank
That the team plays a different system/style depending on who is in net, which is what the person I was replying to was saying isn't the case. Are you that daft?

The real question is, why are you replying to my posts with irrelevant ********, exactly?

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:29 PM
  #378
halleJOKEL
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Old
12-16-2013, 03:13 PM
  #379
geehaad
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Originally Posted by RodTheBawd View Post
Maybe you (and some others here) could take some value out of this article: http://theconversation.com/no-youre-...r-opinion-9978
I'm guessing that you're serious here. If not, please disregard the rest...

I have pointed to a fact in which to base my argument that the team doesn't play a different game upon. I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on, other than "it is patently obvious" and that I don't understand how the game works.

Don't let this post paint you as a hypocrite...construct and defend an argument, son.

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Old
12-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #380
Stephen Goalbert
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion so long as they are able to defend it.

Again I am right in my analysis.

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:13 PM
  #381
Blueline Bomber
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Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
I'm guessing that you're serious here. If not, please disregard the rest...

I have pointed to a fact in which to base my argument that the team doesn't play a different game upon. I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on, other than "it is patently obvious" and that I don't understand how the game works.

Don't let this post paint you as a hypocrite...construct and defend an argument, son.
The fact that you're basing your argument on is that there's no difference in offensive output (in terms of goals scored) when Peters is in net than when Ward is in net.

Ward:

Edmonton - 4 goals for
San Jose - 5 goals for (1 ENG)
Vancouver - 2 goals for
New Jersey - 2 goals for
New Jersey - 4 goals for
Ottawa - 4 goals for (1 ENG)
Boston - 2 goals for
Boston - 1 goal for
Islanders - 4 goals for
Toronto - 3 goals for
Chicago - 2 goals
Phoenix - 3 goals
LA - 1 goal
Pittsburgh - 2 goals
Detroit - 2 goals

41 goals for (39 without the ENGs)
3 or more goals in 7 of the 15 games

Peters:

Phoenix - 3 goals for (1 ENG)
Calgary - 1 goal for
Vancouver - 0 goals for
Nashville - 5 goals for (1 ENG)
Washington - 4 goals for
Detroit - 3 goals for
St Louis - 2 goals for
Anaheim - 2 goals for
Colorado - 2 goals for
Minnesota - 2 goals for
Islanders - 1 goal
Philly - 2 goals
Rangers - 1 goal
Tampa Bay - 0 goals
Pittsburgh - 1 goal
Colorado - 2 goals
Wild - 1 goal

32 goals for (30 without the ENGs)
3 or more goals in 4 of the 17 games

Peters goal support - 1.7 per game
Ward goal support - 2.6 per game

That's a pretty significant difference, IMO. And it supports what my eyes have told me: The team plays a much more defensive brand of hockey in front of Peters at the cost of their offensive output, while Ward gets very little defensive help, but the team can generally score in front of him because of it.

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:28 PM
  #382
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
The fact that you're basing your argument on is that there's no difference in offensive output (in terms of goals scored) when Peters is in net than when Ward is in net. <snip>....

Peters goal support - 1.7 per game
Ward goal support - 2.6 per game
While I do agree the Canes play more conservative in front of Peters, it's misleading to do just a goal support comparison. You are ignoring that Skinner went out the same time as Ward..so all but the last 6 Peter's starts are without him in the line-up, where-as Ward has had Skinner in the line-up for every one of his starts. We have seen the last couple of years how anemic the offense gets when Skinner is out and that is a big factor. In the last 6 games (the only ones where Skinner was in the line-up for a Peter's start):

Phoenix - 3 goals for (1 ENG)
Calgary - 1 goal for
Vancouver - 0 goals for
Nashville - 5 goals for (1 ENG)
Washington - 4 goals for
Detroit - 3 goals for

So 16 goals in 6 games or 2.7 G/Game (or 2.3 if you ignore EN). That's a fairer comparison to Ward's goal scoring support. It's still less than Ward's, but not nearly as dramatic as when Peters first came on the scene and Skinner was out.

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:29 PM
  #383
geehaad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
The fact that you're basing your argument on is that there's no difference in offensive output (in terms of goals scored) when Peters is in net than when Ward is in net.
Nope, my point was that the scoring changes so significantly between games for the same goaltender, and that fact does not support the proposition that the goaltender has a significant affect on the team's offense. Scoring might not be the best indicator (I admitted as much in my post), but it is a data point. If the goaltender was a significant influence (i.e. on par with all of those other factors previously named), then we'd see much more consistency in the offensive output for that goaltender. We don't...it's all over the map.

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:35 PM
  #384
Blueline Bomber
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While I agree having Skinner in the lineup helps the offense (or in some cases, IS the offense), I simply used his own parameters. I went strictly by goals scored and I didn't discount any portion of the season. He also said it didn't matter where I would start/end, the result would be the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geehaad View Post
We don't...it's all over the map.
I'd say having 14 of Peters 17 games having 2 or less goals scored is pretty consistent, but that's just me.

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:39 PM
  #385
Blueline Bomber
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Double post

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:51 PM
  #386
geehaad
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
He also said it didn't matter where I would start/end, the result would be the same.
Dang it...no I didn't. I said that I don't know where to start/end. In my comparison, I used every game that either goaltender has played since Ward returned, since they've traded starts fairly consistently. If personnel is a big contributing factor (Skinner being out while Ward was out, perhaps?), then it absolutely matters when you start/stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
I'd say having 14 of Peters 17 games having 2 or less goals scored is pretty consistent, but that's just me.
Doesn't it, by definition, *have* to be consistent for Ward at the same time? To me, that inconsistency alone ruins the argument. Again, that there are FAR too many other considerations that have a FAR bigger effect.

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Old
12-16-2013, 06:18 PM
  #387
WWAD
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Originally Posted by halleJOKEL View Post
Code:
  so argue                              much fight
                   wow  
                             such anger
                                                       insalts
Well......the title of the thread is RAGE POST.....

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