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Old
07-17-2005, 11:11 PM
  #26
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Just some ideas:

Someone mentioned that LW is a problem. I believe Knuble can play either wing.

I understand that Sharp and Carter play well together, but are Flyers fans happy for Sharp to start the season as the 2nd line RW?

I know Carter is considered a better scorer than Richards, but Richards scored just as well in the AHL playoffs and would be definitely a 'Hitchcock' kind of player. He might end up playing on a higher line than Carter.

I like the idea of ... Kapanen-Richards-Knuble ... but I realise Kapanen is more likely to find himself on a checking line this year.

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07-17-2005, 11:17 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by mikedifr
Just tossing out my thoughts here, but everyone seems to be placing Carter on a line with Gagne. While this may look good on the surface, two young speedy offensive players, from what I have heard and saw with the Phantoms, Carter is more of a finisher than a playmaker. I think that is why he and Sharp played well together, cause although not a huge scoring threat, Sharp is more of a passer than a shooter. IMO I think Carter would be better with a playmaking winger on his line like a Recchi (Stillman??) I think Gagne needs a playmaking center with him like Zhamnov last year. If both Rookies were going to be giving scoring line roles, I actually rather see Richards with Gagne and a strong RW. Gagne's speed makes up for Richards lack of. Richards will do the dirty work to get Gagne the puck. If Roenick is not playing with Primeau, I wouldnt mind seeing Gagne Richards Roenick. And I would like to sign Stillman and play him with Carter and Sharp. I think the playing styles of all the individuals on these two combinations really complement each other. Stillman had 55 and 43 assists the last two years. I would love to see him dish to Carter with that nasty wrist shot he has.

I'm glad to see that someone else on here has Richards actually playing with some talented guys and not scrubs that he's been put onto lines with. What a great way to use Richards talents....put him on a line with Turner Stevenson and whatever scrub we can find........ . Richards will more than likely be partnered with Gagne simply because of the fact that he is a playmaker. Gagne is a shooter.

As for Carter, Cory Stillman would be an ideal linemate for him. I think Patrick Sharp will also be a wonderful addition on that line simply because of the fact that he and Carter had some great chemistry down in the AHL. I think they can really do some damage. I've seen people dismiss Sharp on here, but it's easy to dismiss someone when the only players they've played with have been guys like Brashear and Claude Lapointe. Let's see what a healthy Patrick Sharp can do with some actual talent around him.

As for Umberger, unfortunately it looks like he's going to spend another year in the AHL. He's ready to play in the NHL now, but it seems to be a numbers game in Philadelphia. I guess though that if he goes back to the AHL, it'll be to learn the RW position. I've read that we're weak on the left, but when you consider that Sami, Simon, and Knuble all play the left wing, we're not too too bad there. I'd love to see Umberger on the RW simply so that when Roenick's contract is done, Umberger can be slotted into that spot with Gagne and Richards and really tear it up.

Of course, this will also lead to what to do with Handzus. I won't even mention the T word on this board because someone here will get their Depends in an uproar, but it does open up the possibilites......unless the Flyers decide that it might be Primeau's time to go. After all, he stays in a city for how many seasons before he's dealt?

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Old
07-17-2005, 11:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12

Of course, this will also lead to what to do with Handzus. I won't even mention the T word on this board because someone here will get their Depends in an uproar, but it does open up the possibilites......unless the Flyers decide that it might be Primeau's time to go. After all, he stays in a city for how many seasons before he's dealt?
i can't see clarke getting rid of our captain...

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07-18-2005, 12:55 AM
  #29
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I think they'll bring up Umberger and spend money on the defense instead of at forward. The injuries to the defense were what did the Flyers in against the Bolts. I think we'll see a combination of Pitkanen, Markov, Johnsson, Seidenberg, and 3 FAs.

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Old
07-18-2005, 07:59 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
Anyone think there is a chance Stevenson will be cut loose?
I don't see much of a need to at $1.25M. He'll be a quality player on the 4th line.

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Old
07-18-2005, 09:15 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ghost
Id rather see Gratton then Fedoruk or Brashear.
One of the great things about signing Foote, is that then we dont ned to play either, since he can also lay down with the best of them is necessary.

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Old
07-18-2005, 09:16 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Flyers_
Sim wasnt our property last season you know? he was loaned to the phantoms, and i wouldnt want him on the big club, id welcome him back on the phantoms though, and maybe a call-up, but not a regular
Yes, but Sim is now a free agent, and can be signed without having to trade for his rights.

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Old
07-18-2005, 09:54 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12
I've seen people dismiss Sharp on here, but it's easy to dismiss someone when the only players they've played with have been guys like Brashear and Claude Lapointe. Let's see what a healthy Patrick Sharp can do with some actual talent around him.


Agreed. Sharp is a smart player with slightly above average skill. Not a star, doesnt do anything specific extremely well, but does everything pretty well. He did have 5 goals in 41 games. While that might not sound like a lot, it projects to 10 over a full season and like you said above he was playing with guys like Brashear, Somik, Lapointe. I think he can be a 20 goal 50 point guy on a 2nd line with two skilled players. Especially if he continues the great chemistry with Carter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12
Of course, this will also lead to what to do with Handzus. I won't even mention the T word on this board because someone here will get their Depends in an uproar, but it does open up the possibilites......unless the Flyers decide that it might be Primeau's time to go. After all, he stays in a city for how many seasons before he's dealt?


I am one that doesnt want to trade Handzus, but only until we see what Carter and Richards can do.

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Old
07-18-2005, 10:51 AM
  #34
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Knuble is a great addition...but I think Gagne and Carter would be better off with more of an offensive minded winger with speed and skill.

Gags - Carter - Demitra/JR...or a skilled UFA of your choice.
Knuble - Handzus - JR
Kapanen - Primeau - Radio
Stevenson/Brash/Fedoruk/Somik - Richards - Sharp

I don't like Brash or Fedoruk in the lineup...but we do need some who can scrap good on the 4th line.

Foote - Johnsson
Pitkanen - Markov
Zhitnik - Desjardins

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Old
07-18-2005, 11:25 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
Gags - Carter - Demitra/JR...or a skilled UFA of your choice.
Knuble - Handzus - JR
Kapanen - Primeau - Radio
Stevenson/Brash/Fedoruk/Somik - Richards - Sharp

Foote - Johnsson
Pitkanen - Markov
Zhitnik - Desjardins
How are we going to sign Demitra, Zhitnik, and Foote under a cap? I mean, of course it looks great, but each one of those players will go for at least 4 mil, and we have about 5, maybe 6 max in space.

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Old
07-18-2005, 11:53 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
and we have about 5, maybe 6 max in space.
You have a few million unaccounted for.

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Old
07-18-2005, 12:13 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
How are we going to sign Demitra, Zhitnik, and Foote under a cap? I mean, of course it looks great, but each one of those players will go for at least 4 mil, and we have about 5, maybe 6 max in space.
Don't forgett we have to buy out Leclair and Amonte.

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Old
07-18-2005, 12:18 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
Don't forgett we have to buy out Leclair and Amonte.

buying them out wont give us enough money to sign all thos UFAs, remmeber we have some RFAs to re-sign, Gagne, Johnson, Esche, etc...plus Richards and Carter...

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Old
07-18-2005, 12:22 PM
  #39
MojoJojo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
Don't forgett we have to buy out Leclair and Amonte.
Thats after the buyouts of LeClair, Amonte and Brashear and we resign our RFA's and prospects. Heres my best take on the cap situation

RFA's:
Johnsson- 2.6
Esche- 2.3 (some have suggested this is too high)
Gagne- 2.0
Radio- .7
Sharp- .6
Seidenberg- .6
Somik - .45
Rookies:
Carter - .912 (rookie max under old CBA)
Richards - .912


JR(4.9) - Primeau(3.4) - Kapanen(1.5)
Gagne (2.0)- Carter(.912) - Knuble(1.5)
Richards (.912)- Handzus(2.1)- Stevenson(1.3)
Fedoruk (.45)- Sharp(.6) - Radivojevic(.7)
Somik(.45), Umberger(.912)

Johnsson(2.6) - UFA
Pitkanen(.912) - Markov(2.4)
Seidenberg(.6) - Desjardins(2.3)
Timmander(.61)

Esche (2.3)
Nitty (.45)

grand total: 33.8 mil for a full 23 man roster, with 5.2 left over for our free agent defenseman give or take a million. If we keep Umberger off the books and sign a UFA wing, that gives us 6.1 for a defenseman and a winger. I dont see Esche taking significantly less than what I put down, but you might save a half mil here.

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Old
07-18-2005, 12:32 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Esche- 2.3 (some have suggested this is too high)
I think that's a bit high. He's never even started 50 games in his career at the NHL level, and he's not the future in goal for the Flyers. I don't think he gets more than 1.5.

My math has them at approximately $21 Million after the three buyouts. I have similar numbers for my RFA's give or take a few hundred thousand, except for Esche, which I already mentioned. After all of them are signed, and Richards and Carter, I have the Flyers at about $31 Million.

Even if we just add $1 million on to that to account for left over numbers, they still have at least $7 million to play with.


Last edited by Brad*: 07-18-2005 at 12:38 PM.
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Old
07-18-2005, 12:45 PM
  #41
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Another thing to consider, say we go out and sign Zhitnik for 3.5 or so. That leaves us with a good deal of wiggle room for when the trade deadline looms. Once we trade for a player at the deadline, we only have to pick up about a quarter of his contract. Therefore, by keeping 3 mil or so free at the deadline, we can trade for two really good players to head into the playoffs with.

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Old
07-18-2005, 12:48 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
I think that's a bit high. He's never even started 50 games in his career at the NHL level, and he's not the future in goal for the Flyers. I don't think he gets more than 1.5.

My math has them at approximately $21 Million after the three buyouts. I have similar numbers for my RFA's give or take a few hundred thousand, except for Esche, which I already mentioned. After all of them are signed, and Richards and Carter, I have the Flyers at about $31 Million.

Even if we just add $1 million on to that to account for left over numbers, they still have at least $7 million to play with.
Remember you need a 23 man roster, so that means 3 extra players (a 7th defenseman and two extra forwards) which is about 2 mil right there.

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Old
07-18-2005, 01:59 PM
  #43
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The Flyers shouldnt sign a star UFA wing or D. If they wait until the deadline, they will be able to afford a $5m winger and a $5m D man assuming they are available.

They start with a salary of $33m, this will leave over $10m room at the deadline.

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Old
07-18-2005, 02:02 PM
  #44
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They're at 31 million with 21 players on the roster on my list. That leaves about 8 million for two players.


Last edited by Brad*: 07-18-2005 at 03:28 PM.
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Old
07-18-2005, 03:04 PM
  #45
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Kapanen-Primeau-Roenick
Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Stillman-Carter-Sharp
Radivojevic-Handzus-Stevenson
**Somik-Umberger

Johnsson-Foote/Zubov/Zhitnik
Markov-Pitkanen
Desjardins-Seidenberg
**Meyer

Esche
Niittymaki

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Old
07-18-2005, 03:21 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper
Kapanen-Primeau-Roenick
Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Stillman-Carter-Sharp
Radivojevic-Handzus-Stevenson
**Somik-Umberger

Johnsson-Foote/Zubov/Zhitnik
Markov-Pitkanen
Desjardins-Seidenberg
**Meyer

Esche
Niittymaki
Any thoughts in bringing back Yuskevich to play D, wouldn't be nearly as expensive and would allow us to sign a scorer and possibly another d

Johnsson/Yuskevich
Markov-Pitkanen
Desjardins-Seidenberg

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Old
07-18-2005, 04:23 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury
Does anyone else think it's silly to have Pitkanen pencilled in at #5-6 defenseman?
No, Merc, I don't. I think it's silly to number lines and defensive pairs. It's convenient for our discussions, but I don't think it means a whole heck of a lot to a coaching staff. I think we put WAY too much weight into this numbering thing rather than trying to make predictions on which trios or pairs would work the best together.

---------------------------------

Steve,
I think your calculator is broken, or if you're using a solar, your thumb is covering the panel. :-) The cap is reportedly going to be $39M. However, I completely concur with you and Mojo that the Flyers MUST leave room to do something during the season. If they spend all the way up to the cap before a puck even touches the ice, they're going to be over a barrel if they need to do something mid-stream. I hope they don't spend so much so that they're limited in what they can do in future off-seasons, but it would be nice and I'm sure necessary to put a dollar in the kitty, as it were.

This whole salary cap is really going to test an organization's ability to see into the future. An expensive, long-term contract signing can really handcuff an organization. From where I'm sitting, pre-lockout, limited investment signings like Stevenson and particularly Knuble lead me to believe Clarke and the front office is well-prepared to think the way they should in this new environment.

----------------------------

I think Yushkevich is done. The Flyers can do better for the same price.

----------------------------

I am not a card-carrying member of the Corey Stillman in Philadelphia fan club.

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Old
07-18-2005, 04:28 PM
  #48
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This is what I got

Gagne-Carter-JR
Knuble-Handzus-Glen Murray
Kapanen-Primeau-Radio
Stevenson-Richards-Sharp

Johnsson-Foote
Markov-Pitkanen
Desjardins-Seidenberg

Esche-Niittymaki

Free Agents
Glen Murray worked very well with Thornton and Knuble in Boston. And Handzus isn't Thornton, but the 3 could definitly work well together. Something about Stillman and Demitra just doesn't sit well with me. I wouldn't mind a pure scorer like Kariya either.

Adam Foote, not to much to say other than just about every team's fan wants him on their roster. Another defenseman can be brought in dumping Seidenberg into the 7th Dman spot.

Not a final copy, but a good guess at what it might be. I think I would rather Umberger on the team to really get the youth movement going especially with Stevenson being perhaps a little pricey for a 4th liner. A Umberger, Richards, Sharp line would be pretty inexperienced, but it would give Richards someone to play with on the fourth line.

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Old
07-18-2005, 04:38 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley
This whole salary cap is really going to test an organization's ability to see into the future. An expensive, long-term contract signing can really handcuff an organization. From where I'm sitting, pre-lockout, limited investment signings like Stevenson and particularly Knuble lead me to believe Clarke and the front office is well-prepared to think the way they should in this new environment.
The Flyers are in a pretty good situation. In the next few years, with the new free agency rules, there will be a ton of excellent young talent on the market. The Flyers are in very good shape because they won't have many expensive contracts past next year. LeClair and Amonte will be gone, and Roenick and Desjardins are both free agents after this season who are unlikely to be resigned. I think the Flyers can afford to sign themselves a solid veteran or two to fill those holes this off season, and I believe they will.

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Old
07-18-2005, 04:42 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley
Steve,
I think your calculator is broken, or if you're using a solar, your thumb is covering the panel. :-) The cap is reportedly going to be $39M.
Teams can go over the cap, they just cannot average over $39m a season.

If you save money earlier in the season, you can go over $39m at the deadline when you only have to pay the players for a couple of months.

You can have a $50m wage bill post trade deadline and still stay under the cap.

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