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Old
10-21-2013, 02:11 PM
  #51
PocketNines
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The reason people focus solely on the points with Stewart is because aside from the occasional fight, points and being a likeable teammate are the only way he contributes. He is a very poor forechecker, he rarely uses his body, this is why people forget he's out there. Heck, I forget he's out there, and then after the game I remember that I forgot. I hated Keith Tkachuk because of his playoff unclutchitude but at least during the regular season he was a difference-making force in front of the net.

It sounds like we're all agreeing Stewart is what he is; he's streaky and will inevitably take over a few games this season. Will they be the big clutch ones against tough teams? That's all the playoffs are. I agree with the scout, who nailed it in his assessment of Stewart. I'm one of the people who thinks if you can trade him in a package for an upgrade (maybe get Vanek at the deadline) you do it. The guy's gotten third line minutes for a few years here now. He's not that critical to the team's success. He was not a huge part of that playoff push against LA last season, that was mostly other guys. I just don't see him as irreplaceable. He's not bringing irreplaceable defense. He's not irreplaceable in the forecheck game. Oshie and Tarasenko are both ahead of him on the RW depth chart and should be. He's a 4.15M one-dimensional 3d liner who scores in bursts and has yet to be a difference maker under top-team pressure (the games we as fans NEED our favorite team to win). That's why I said I want to see from Stewart what Halak showed against Chicago. I've been a frequent Halak critic but I spoke up immediately when I thought I saw a new level from him in a Blues uniform. So I'd speak up and say the same about Stewart ... if he showed it to me. The whole concept where there needs to be a whipping boy is false in my case – I'd much rather a player I'm down on prove me wrong to the team's benefit. What real Blues fan wouldn't?

This gets us back to my pure evaluation of his contribution – how likely is Stewart to give you that dominating performance WHEN YOU NEED IT? It's a crime Steen is paid less than Stewart, by the way. You could basically fall into three main camps: pessimistic, optimistic and agnostic. I am pessimistic because if you don't have the hockey sense effort in those big games isn't enough. Everybody's putting out max effort. As a pessimist, I'd prefer they upgrade that risk. As a Blues fan, I'd love to be proven wrong. But I'f I'm proven right then I will be annoyed they didn't upgrade that risk in such a crucial season and that the team is dragging him with them in the playoffs.

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10-21-2013, 04:05 PM
  #52
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If he performs this year, re sign him. If not, let him go and call up Jaskin.

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10-21-2013, 04:27 PM
  #53
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If he performs this year, re sign him. If not, let him go and call up Jaskin.
He's signed through next year.

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10-21-2013, 04:33 PM
  #54
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Oh right.. we're screwed

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10-21-2013, 04:56 PM
  #55
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Even worse, it's at $4.2m, an upgrade from $4.1m this year.

Can you still buy out players next summer?

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10-21-2013, 05:02 PM
  #56
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Since I've resigned myself to the fact that Stewart is an over-compensated complimentary player, the only thing that disappoints me these days is that he isn't a dominant power play producer. There is no reason why he shouldn't be good for 10-14 power play goals per year with his amazingly soft hands in tight areas and massive frame that can't be moved unless your name plate says Chara or Weber. 35-40% of his goals should be on the PP like the great power forwards, including the aforementioned Tkachuk. Just watch the 2013 highlight reel of all his goals on YT. He's incredibly gifted with the puck and at the very least has passable hand-eye coordination. I would be perfectly fine with his even strength deficiencies with all the good two-way forwards the Blues have if Stewball was a PP beast. He's just an enigmatic player.

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10-21-2013, 05:03 PM
  #57
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No thanks. I'd keep him. Streaky or not. Has a better playoff history than many on the Blues roster. Certainly can't forget the beat down on Nolan in the Kings playoff game either. Too bad the team didn't have enough heart and soul to feed off of it. Hopefully with the line changes, we will see some more production out of Roy and Stewart. Excited about Tarasenko and Roy together along with paarjavi.

I think you need to give him some credit for being an awesome screen on a couple PPG this year. He and Backes are both doing a great job this year in that role. Call that unassisted assists that both of them have...ha ha


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Old
10-21-2013, 05:14 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by intangible View Post
Even worse, it's at $4.2m, an upgrade from $4.1m this year.

Can you still buy out players next summer?
You can't be serious can you? Buy out a guy that's got one year at 4.2 million? Good lord. If we are really going to move on we'll trade him. And there would be multiple teams in on him because of his skill.

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10-21-2013, 05:23 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by intangible View Post
Even worse, it's at $4.2m, an upgrade from $4.1m this year.

Can you still buy out players next summer?
I believe you can, but that would be horrible asset management. Even if management agrees that he's not a guy they want on the team anymore, they could easily flip him for a valuable asset or two. He's a bit overpaid, but he's a good player that other teams would want on their team.

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10-21-2013, 05:44 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
The reason people focus solely on the points with Stewart is because aside from the occasional fight, points and being a likeable teammate are the only way he contributes. He is a very poor forechecker, he rarely uses his body, this is why people forget he's out there. Heck, I forget he's out there, and then after the game I remember that I forgot. I hated Keith Tkachuk because of his playoff unclutchitude but at least during the regular season he was a difference-making force in front of the net.

It sounds like we're all agreeing Stewart is what he is; he's streaky and will inevitably take over a few games this season. Will they be the big clutch ones against tough teams? That's all the playoffs are. I agree with the scout, who nailed it in his assessment of Stewart. I'm one of the people who thinks if you can trade him in a package for an upgrade (maybe get Vanek at the deadline) you do it. The guy's gotten third line minutes for a few years here now. He's not that critical to the team's success. He was not a huge part of that playoff push against LA last season, that was mostly other guys. I just don't see him as irreplaceable. He's not bringing irreplaceable defense. He's not irreplaceable in the forecheck game. Oshie and Tarasenko are both ahead of him on the RW depth chart and should be. He's a 4.15M one-dimensional 3d liner who scores in bursts and has yet to be a difference maker under top-team pressure (the games we as fans NEED our favorite team to win). That's why I said I want to see from Stewart what Halak showed against Chicago. I've been a frequent Halak critic but I spoke up immediately when I thought I saw a new level from him in a Blues uniform. So I'd speak up and say the same about Stewart ... if he showed it to me. The whole concept where there needs to be a whipping boy is false in my case – I'd much rather a player I'm down on prove me wrong to the team's benefit. What real Blues fan wouldn't?

This gets us back to my pure evaluation of his contribution – how likely is Stewart to give you that dominating performance WHEN YOU NEED IT? It's a crime Steen is paid less than Stewart, by the way. You could basically fall into three main camps: pessimistic, optimistic and agnostic. I am pessimistic because if you don't have the hockey sense effort in those big games isn't enough. Everybody's putting out max effort. As a pessimist, I'd prefer they upgrade that risk. As a Blues fan, I'd love to be proven wrong. But I'f I'm proven right then I will be annoyed they didn't upgrade that risk in such a crucial season and that the team is dragging him with them in the playoffs.
Mostly a good post, but a few things...

1. Stewart has still shown more to me in a Blues uniform than Halak has. And one game against Chicago certainly won't change my opinion of that. You talk about big games, when has Halak even been in the net during them? You can argue whether that's his fault or not, but in a Blues uniform he has yet to accomplish much.

2. Steen will make more than Stewart soon enough. You can't really compare their contracts right now since Steen was re-signed a few years ago.

Anyways, I will probably just stop posting in this thread since it contains a bunch of ridiculous overreactions as usual. Buy out Stewart, really? Lol. Thank God none of you will ever come close to running an NHL team.

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10-21-2013, 08:06 PM
  #61
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I believe you can, but that would be horrible asset management. Even if management agrees that he's not a guy they want on the team anymore, they could easily flip him for a valuable asset or two. He's a bit overpaid, but he's a good player that other teams would want on their team.
Did you see the contracts given out this summer? Stewart is far from overpaid. Look at players like Wheeler, Clarkson, and Horton. The going rate for comparable players to Stewart is the 5 million range. It's not the same NHL with contracts it was a few years ago.

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10-22-2013, 03:10 AM
  #62
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You can't be serious can you? Buy out a guy that's got one year at 4.2 million? Good lord. If we are really going to move on we'll trade him. And there would be multiple teams in on him because of his skill.
I am serious. Small sample size, but 2 pts in 7 games... lol. Guy's been a wreck out there. No way in hell a team takes on $4.2m for such a streaky player who seemingly no longer cares. And god knows we won't eat any salary in a trade.

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10-22-2013, 03:11 AM
  #63
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I am serious. Small sample size, but 2 pts in 7 games... lol. Guy's been a wreck out there. No way in hell a team takes on $4.2m for such a streaky player who seemingly no longer cares. And god knows we won't eat any salary in a trade.
Wow.

Buy a player out after 7 games. Holy cow I've seen it all now.

Hopefully Philly buys out Claude Giroux next. 3 points and a -5 in 8 games... What a disaster. Terrible player, I bet he doesn't care either.

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10-22-2013, 06:02 AM
  #64
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Trade him to Pens - they need a winger for Crosby. Not sure what Pens have useful for Blues though. May be Benett? But I doubt they will trade Benett for Stewart.

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10-22-2013, 06:28 AM
  #65
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I am serious. Small sample size, but 2 pts in 7 games... lol. Guy's been a wreck out there. No way in hell a team takes on $4.2m for such a streaky player who seemingly no longer cares. And god knows we won't eat any salary in a trade.
Who lead the Blues in scoring last year? He certainly didn't get top line minutes. I guess we should've cut Backes last year. He gets paid a lot of money for 5 goals.

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10-22-2013, 06:56 AM
  #66
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Just like Steen won't have 60 points after 40 games, Stewart won't have 12 at that point. Stewart will find a hot streak and get his points.

Freaking out after 7 games

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10-22-2013, 10:53 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by intangible View Post
I am serious. Small sample size, but 2 pts in 7 games... lol. Guy's been a wreck out there. No way in hell a team takes on $4.2m for such a streaky player who seemingly no longer cares. And god knows we won't eat any salary in a trade.
If you think that no team out there would take him then you'd be very wrong. 4.2 million is a very good contract for a guy that is going to put up 25 to 30 goals and 60 points when healthy. Are you going to be saying this when he goes on a year and scores 10 goals in 10 games? He's streaky. That's the nature of the beast. If you want to trade him because he doesn't fit with the style of this team and he's too streaky that's fine. I would agree. But don't be acting like his contract is horrendous and that we are stuck with him forever. He's only on a two year deal for crying out loud. If there was a trade market for Gaborik last year, I can guarantee you there would be one for Stewart if we decided to move him.

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Old
10-22-2013, 11:06 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by intangible View Post
I am serious. Small sample size, but 2 pts in 7 games... lol. Guy's been a wreck out there. No way in hell a team takes on $4.2m for such a streaky player who seemingly no longer cares. And god knows we won't eat any salary in a trade.
He has by no means been a "wreck" out there. And how would you know he no longer cares? He has constantly been the most energetic player on the ice the past few games. Regardless of if he's scoring, he's helping people score. His intensity is unmatched.

And to say no team would trade for him is ridiculous. He was a top-line power forward last year and just hasn't found his touch this year. He'll find it. He's still a very valuable asset to this team regardless of his scoring. Army knew he was streaky yet still signed him to that contract. Why? because he know how much leadership and value Stewie brings regardless of if he scores 15 times or 35 times.

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10-22-2013, 11:11 AM
  #69
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His intensity is unmatched.
What? Are you watching the same team as I am? His intensity -can- be solid, but it's certainly not Steen/Oshie level.

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10-22-2013, 11:13 AM
  #70
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This place reminds me more of the asylum every year.

Hitchcock has enough players to work with that if a guy 'doesn't care' he isn't going to be getting much ice time.

From what I've seen, Stewart isn't at his most confident right now. But I've also seen him involved in several dangerous chances (mostly in combination with Roy). I think taking Morrow off that line and adding a linemate with more speed is going to help a bit.

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10-22-2013, 11:14 AM
  #71
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What? Are you watching the same team as I am? His intensity -can- be solid, but it's certainly not Steen/Oshie level.
Intensity can be defined differently. Oshie and Steen are intense, but I feel that word more defines the type of player Stewie is. Osh and Steener are more focused, not intense. They don't make the big hit, they don't stick up for teamates. That's the intensity I mean when I mention Stewie.

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10-22-2013, 11:15 AM
  #72
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Crazier extremes guys? Fan reactions to Elliott, Stewart, or Halak?

I'm still leaning towards Elliott, but intangible closing the gap for Stewart.

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10-22-2013, 11:17 AM
  #73
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I'm just going to slowly walk out of this thread and ignore the craziness on both sides of the argument.

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10-22-2013, 12:27 PM
  #74
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This place reminds me more of the asylum every year.
Hitchcock has enough players to work with that if a guy 'doesn't care' he isn't going to be getting much ice time.

From what I've seen, Stewart isn't at his most confident right now. But I've also seen him involved in several dangerous chances (mostly in combination with Roy). I think taking Morrow off that line and adding a linemate with more speed is going to help a bit.
Yeah, I know. We used to have a good argument, but over the last 2 years it seems like there just is a lot of silliness. It is too bad, this used to be a good place to be rational and talk hockey. You would think with the winning team, we would see less of the whipping boy mentality, but doesn't seem that way - seems to have gotten worse.

Stewart and Leopold...... Way to much fan overreaction.

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10-22-2013, 01:33 PM
  #75
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I'm on the fence when it comes to Stewart.

I don't see a guy who has intensity problems, or who doesn't care on the ice, but I do see a player with significant limitations.

1) He has poor lateral agility and short area quickness in spite of his high top-end speed. This holds him back defensively and on the forecheck, especially when coupled with his unspectacular anticipation/hockey IQ.

2) His hands are fairly soft, but slow. He doesn't have the ability to stickhandle around people, and it leaves him with a slow stick defensively.

3) He still hasn't learned to use his size effectively away from the net. He needs to use his body more effectively to shield the puck when he has it, and to separate others from the puck when he doesn't. This includes, but isn't limited to, his technique in board battles.

4) He passes up too many shots. Sometimes he makes a good pass instead, but other times he's trying to stickhandle through people or force the puck to a linemate when the play isn't there.

On the flip side:

1) He's come a long way in his positional play since his arrival. He's rarely caught out of position now, even if the limitations I mentioned above still cap his effectiveness defensively at an "acceptable" level.

2) His puck management has improved tremendously. He's virtually eliminated gross mistakes from his game.

3) He's repeatedly shown the willingness to go to the front of the net, and he's screening goalies more effectively while he's there. This wasn't a big part of his game before joining the Blues.

4) His top-end speed and soft hands are still plus assets that put pressure on defenses. He has the ability to contribute offensively off the rush, or off the cycle of his linemates.

I don't see Stewart ever being a stud defensively, or a terror on the forecheck, or even an intimidating physical force. He's never going to win games for the team in those areas.

I do think that he's shown the ability to learn and improve, though. He still needs to use his body more effectively in the puck possession game, and to shoot more when he has a lane to get the puck to the net. If he can improve in those two areas, which I think is possible, then he can be a consistent contributor on offense who won't lose you games when he doesn't have the puck. That's his upside, IMO.

For the record, I'm not attempting to place a "value" on that type of player. It's just how I see Stewart in a contextual vacuum.

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