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Ruff, Hartley & Trotz - a trio of greats

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Old
04-03-2016, 03:13 AM
  #1
VanIslander
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Ruff, Hartley & Trotz - a trio of greats

Which of the three is the best of the bunch?

As a longtime Preds & Caps fan I have to say Trotz is the hot choice! But Ruff as been solid and Hartley has been great against teams I've liked again and again.

I cannot think of a question I'm more conflicted about than: Which of these is the best coach of the bunch?

Please indicate WHY you think any one of them is a greater all-time coach than another.

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04-03-2016, 05:51 AM
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Comparable

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Which of the three is the best of the bunch?

As a longtime Preds & Caps fan I have to say Trotz is the hot choice! But Ruff as been solid and Hartley has been great against teams I've liked again and again.

I cannot think of a question I'm more conflicted about than: Which of these is the best coach of the bunch?

Please indicate WHY you think any one of them is a greater all-time coach than another.
Bob Hartley tends to have a short shelf life. Message tends to fall on deaf ears with the pros where roster stability is a factor. Still has a junior approach and mentality, youngsters move on due to age. Had success with the young Flames last year but you see the slippage this year.

Lindy Ruff excellent coach for a small market team with a small hockey media base - Buffalo or Dallas. Good at developing players, allows players to do what they do best while integrating each into a team offensively and defensively.

Barry Trotz by far the best of the trio. Has evolved from his early Nashville days where he had pigeon holed himself as an expansion/defensive type coach. Managed to focus Ovechkin on the two elements of his game that work - scoring and an aggressive forecheck while surrounding him with players who will compensate for his shortcomings defensively and offensively. Similar to the approach used by Scotty Bowman with Guy Lafleur and Brett Hull.

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04-03-2016, 07:30 AM
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Lindy Ruff. He unleashes the dogs to score goals, but still demands they adhere to the system. Plus, he stands up for his team/players.


Last edited by Weakside Lock: 04-03-2016 at 07:38 AM.
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Old
04-03-2016, 10:12 AM
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Hartley has the only cup, Ruff has a finals appearance.

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04-03-2016, 11:51 AM
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The last three posters have chosen three different options: Trotz, Ruff, Hartley.

That justifies my mental dilemma. Of course, there's no need to split hairs. They could be seen as on par, of the same level in terms of all-time greatness.

And, to the point: they all still have time to show more and establish their legacy and reputation more.

(I'll) stay tuned...

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04-03-2016, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Lindy Ruff excellent coach for a small market team with a small hockey media base - Buffalo or Dallas. Good at developing players, allows players to do what they do best while integrating each into a team offensively and defensively.
Dallas is hardly a "small market team" it just seems like that because its 4th on the sport totem pole.

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04-03-2016, 02:10 PM
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Trotz is the best by a lot. I don't have a very high opinion of Hartley at all.

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04-03-2016, 02:16 PM
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3rd in Texas

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Originally Posted by Shawked View Post
Dallas is hardly a "small market team" it just seems like that because its 4th on the sport totem pole.
Third in Texas:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/a0763098.html

If you include Fort Worth it grows but then you have to do the same for the greater metropolitan area of all US and Canadian cities.

Doubt that hockey is the 4th sport. Behind football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, probably soccer.

Point is that Ruff does not like media scritiny, which he avoids in Dallas.

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04-03-2016, 02:24 PM
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Not Hartley. I wouldn't call him a "great" coach.

Ruff? Hmmm. I guess he's not bad. I'll give him credit, he got a lot of miles out of those post lockout Sabres teams. Finished 1st overall in points in 2007, now who would have thought of that?

Trotz is a guy that I always felt probably shouldn't have had a job that long in Nashville. I don't know, he's alright, has done well with Ovechkin in Washington and such.

Ruff is the choice for me if I had to pick one.

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04-03-2016, 04:39 PM
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I wouldn't call Hartley a great coach either. He was great for us last year with all the rookies but I don't think he's the coach for us when we become a playoff contender. I'd easily trade him for Trotz or Ruff.

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04-03-2016, 05:22 PM
  #11
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Ruff is interesting, seems like the most versatile of the bunch as he took a very defense first, Hasek-led squad to the Conference finals and then the SCF, but also a no. 1 ranked offense to the Conference finals as well in 06-07. He's a bit like Trotz in that both of them might have clung on too long in their previous jobs, but it's cool to see they can adapt their systems to new teams and still have success (or in Trotz's case, more success).

I don't like Hartley very much. He reminds me a fair bit of Andy Murray. Is that a fair comparison?

I'd go Ruff by a bit over Trotz, with a decent sized gap before Hartley.

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04-03-2016, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Third in Texas:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/a0763098.html

If you include Fort Worth it grows but then you have to do the same for the greater metropolitan area of all US and Canadian cities.

Doubt that hockey is the 4th sport. Behind football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, probably soccer.

Point is that Ruff does not like media scritiny, which he avoids in Dallas.
Good thing its 11th in the Americas. NYC, LA & Chicago are the only American cities ahead of it.

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04-03-2016, 06:06 PM
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Bob Hartley

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Originally Posted by Sutter pours bourbon View Post
Ruff is interesting, seems like the most versatile of the bunch as he took a very defense first, Hasek-led squad to the Conference finals and then the SCF, but also a no. 1 ranked offense to the Conference finals as well in 06-07. He's a bit like Trotz in that both of them might have clung on too long in their previous jobs, but it's cool to see they can adapt their systems to new teams and still have success (or in Trotz's case, more success).

I don't like Hartley very much. He reminds me a fair bit of Andy Murray. Is that a fair comparison?

I'd go Ruff by a bit over Trotz, with a decent sized gap before Hartley.
Bob Hartley has not changed much from his initial NHL season. Old style motivational coach. Murray is more of a teacher, technician type coach.

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04-04-2016, 03:12 AM
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I feel it's a stretch to call any of those guys all-time great coaches.

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04-05-2016, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutter pours bourbon View Post
Ruff is interesting, seems like the most versatile of the bunch as he took a very defense first, Hasek-led squad to the Conference finals and then the SCF, but also a no. 1 ranked offense to the Conference finals as well in 06-07. He's a bit like Trotz in that both of them might have clung on too long in their previous jobs, but it's cool to see they can adapt their systems to new teams and still have success (or in Trotz's case, more success).
I wouldn't call Hašek's Buffalo "a very defense first squad".

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04-05-2016, 02:08 PM
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Trotz
Ruff
Hartley

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04-05-2016, 08:09 PM
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I wouldn't call Hašek's Buffalo "a very defense first squad".
What would you call them, then?

They were FAST. And I'm not saying their defensemen were outstanding, but they weren't a run-and-gun offensive team, even for the era. They had some excellent 2-way forwards to compliment a solid if not-flashy d-corps. They did seem to play more of a counter-punch style in the playoffs though, opened things up a bit. Balanced scoring, grit with wheels. A bit like the Ducks in 06-07.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Hasek. Mostly just pointing out how different Ruff's current approach is by comparison, and his latter day Buffalo teams as well.

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04-05-2016, 10:05 PM
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Their defense corps was consistently terrible. Zhitnik was good (and not great) but who else did they have? You really had to talk yourself into guys like Jason Woolley. I don't think that's Ruff's fault, but it's a weird way to categorize them.

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04-05-2016, 10:08 PM
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Bob 'Artley, 'ockey Coach, is not an all-time great.

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04-06-2016, 11:43 AM
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If those guys are all-time greats a guy like Vigneault must be one too. He's won three Presidents' Trophies and been to two Stanley Cup Finals with two different teams.

And I'm not even a Vigneault fan.

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04-07-2016, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the edler View Post
If those guys are all-time greats a guy like Vigneault must be one too. He's won three Presidents' Trophies and been to two Stanley Cup Finals with two different teams.

And I'm not even a Vigneault fan.
He's absolutely one, of the last 20 years anyway. I wouldn't call any of the coaches in this thread all time great tho.

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04-07-2016, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Bob Hartley tends to have a short shelf life. Message tends to fall on deaf ears with the pros where roster stability is a factor. Still has a junior approach and mentality, youngsters move on due to age. Had success with the young Flames last year but you see the slippage this year.

Lindy Ruff excellent coach for a small market team with a small hockey media base - Buffalo or Dallas. Good at developing players, allows players to do what they do best while integrating each into a team offensively and defensively.

Barry Trotz by far the best of the trio. Has evolved from his early Nashville days where he had pigeon holed himself as an expansion/defensive type coach. Managed to focus Ovechkin on the two elements of his game that work - scoring and an aggressive forecheck while surrounding him with players who will compensate for his shortcomings defensively and offensively. Similar to the approach used by Scotty Bowman with Guy Lafleur and Brett Hull.
This is actually just a much better version of exactly what I would have said.

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04-07-2016, 03:03 AM
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If those guys are all-time greats a guy like Vigneault must be one too. He's won three Presidents' Trophies and been to two Stanley Cup Finals with two different teams.

And I'm not even a Vigneault fan.
Yes. Vigneault is a legit top-30 coach of all-time at this point. I really respect his demonstrated focus on matchups and zone starts that earned two otherwise top-10-ish scorers an Art Ross trophy each. That is as close to innovation as you can get in a post-2000 coach.

To put it in terms VI understands - Trotz is an ok ATD coach. Ruff is a low end ATD or MLD coach. Hartley is an AAA coach.

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04-07-2016, 03:23 AM
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I'm sort of curious as to why the OP picked these three guys. What about Laviolette? Julien? Hitchcock? All who've won cups and made finals appearances....

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04-07-2016, 01:01 PM
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I'm sort of curious as to why the OP picked these three guys. What about Laviolette? Julien? Hitchcock? All who've won cups and made finals appearances....
He probably thinks they are all better than these three, as most/all of us do.

Isn't this like going into a "Janney vs. Yashin vs. Spezza" thread and saying "what about Hawerchuk and Savard???"

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