HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 7) Can't Win Olympic Games Edition

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-31-2013, 07:02 PM
  #251
habsfanatics*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I improved it by adding the D.

And so far the board has been pretty much in agreement on the games.

Limited way of doing it? Maybe. But I think that it lends itself a little better to folks agreeing on what went on at least from a general perspective. Folks couldn't agree on the word 'mediocre' so how are they going to react when I grade it a six when they think it should be a 7 or a 5?

Sometimes simple is better and I think this is one of those cases.
You're doing fine.

habsfanatics* is offline  
Old
10-31-2013, 07:05 PM
  #252
habsfanatics*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well, another example of "objective data" is Montreal leading the league in blocked shots by an appreciable margin. The goalies have been the biggest difference so far, though, I think most of us agree.
I'm a big supporter of our d, but the trend has become troublesome imo. Blocking shots isn't a good indicator of strong defense, it has no correlation with wins at all, it might even have a slight correlation with losses, which makes sense, when you're blocking a high number of shots, it means you're without possession of the puck.

The team has struggled in possession/defense compared to last year imo. It's mostly strong goaltending holding the fort for now.


Last edited by habsfanatics*: 10-31-2013 at 07:10 PM.
habsfanatics* is offline  
Old
10-31-2013, 07:09 PM
  #253
habsfanatics*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 5,017
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Haven't seen many people credit Carey Price for the improvement in the penalty kill, this is kind of a strawman.

I think many people said that the Habs defense played well on the whole last season until the team lost Emelin and Diaz went down, so again a little misleading.

The defense has been inconsistent all season long outside of the last two games, and they were a legitimate concern moving forward. Remember even Elliot Freidman reported that Bergevin this season looked into acquiring a defenseman to help out the backend. Also, are you really going to hold the position that the defense has played well this season? They've been below average on most nights, almost all the wins the team had on the West Coast trip came because of solid play by the goaltenders who bail the team out. Also it's not like the Canadiens have played world beaters yet, they've had a very lax schedule thus far, they've only played 4 teams currently holding a playoff position.
I've been saying from the start that the SV % on the PK would likely regress closer to normal and that the PK would recover automatically. Sure adjustments have been made, but barely above .800 SV% on the PK was never going to continue. The PK would have improved without any changes imo. Price's SV % on the PK last year was an anomaly imo, out of his control for the most part.

habsfanatics* is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #254
Perrah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,205
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Here's what I've learned from this thread.

1) Last year Carey Price was a victim of a bad penalty killing unit
2) This year's improved penalty killing unit is because of Carey Price

a) last year the team was near the best in the league in shots against, but that has nothing to do with quality of defence.
b) this year the habs are giving up higher shot totals which is absolute proof of a low quality defence.

I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried but at least one member can.
You said yourself the defense last year was top-10 and I dont know what you use to come up with that but I assume it was the low SA/G. This year you said the D is off to a good start despite being in the bottom third of the league for SA/G. Perhaps you could explain a bit further to avoid teaching us a great lesson that you seem to frown upon in your post.

Perrah is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:00 PM
  #255
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,935
vCash: 500
So... Price's stat line for tonight was GAA 4.06 and sv pctg .840.

Anyone else think that he played better than that stat line suggested? I actually thought he played pretty well...

Let the flaming begin.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:09 PM
  #256
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 29,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So... Price's stat line for tonight was GAA 4.06 and sv pctg .840.

Anyone else think that he played better than that stat line suggested? I actually thought he played pretty well...

Let the flaming begin.
Thought he was mediocre, but definitely not nearly as bad as the stat line looks. Don't think he could have made himself any smaller on two of the goals, but then again one was a breakaway, so how much are you gonna fault the guy, really.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:12 PM
  #257
pine*
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,337
vCash: 500
Stats would say terrible.
But I think his play was average. Does he want one or two goals back? Sure. But defense hung him out to dry with breakdowns all over the place, our 4th line got exposed and he couldn't save the day. It happens.

pine* is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:14 PM
  #258
Genesis76
Registered User
 
Genesis76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Country: Greece
Posts: 1,512
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So... Price's stat line for tonight was GAA 4.06 and sv pctg .840.

Anyone else think that he played better than that stat line suggested? I actually thought he played pretty well...

Let the flaming begin.
plz tell me your just trying to troll the haters.

He was left alone all by himself so the goals were not his fault.

But I wasn't impressed with his reaction time either.

Genesis76 is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:20 PM
  #259
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis76 View Post
plz tell me your just trying to troll the haters.

He was left alone so the goals were not his fault.

But I wasn't impressed with his reaction time either.
I thought he played well tonight. It reminded me of the Toronto game where we had some lousy bounces and that's what happened tonight. I felt like he could've done better on the breakaway goal but for the most part they were tough stops.

At the very least he was a hell of a lot better than the stat line suggests.

I also think the we actually played a decent game too. Had some defensive breakdowns but I don't think we played a bad game. Wild capitalized on everything though. Sometimes that's just how it goes...

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:29 PM
  #260
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Thought he was mediocre, but definitely not nearly as bad as the stat line looks. Don't think he could have made himself any smaller on two of the goals, but then again one was a breakaway, so how much are you gonna fault the guy, really.
Funny enough, I thought the breakaway was probably the worst goal he let in. And I really don't think we played all that bad a game. Made a couple of mistakes and they went in the net.

I'll probably say Mediocre/Mediocre on both because if I say good folks will freak out. But I really don't think he played a bad game.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:30 PM
  #261
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 29,151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Funny enough, I thought the breakaway was probably the worst goal he let in. And I really don't think we played all that bad a game. Made a couple of mistakes and they went in the net.

I'll probably say Mediocre/Mediocre on both because if I say good folks will freak out. But I really don't think he played a bad game.
Ultimately it's hard to polish 4 goals on 23 shots, but I know what you're saying, and I agree.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:33 PM
  #262
WeThreeKings
DJ Salem
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,886
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Funny enough, I thought the breakaway was probably the worst goal he let in. And I really don't think we played all that bad a game. Made a couple of mistakes and they went in the net.

I'll probably say Mediocre/Mediocre on both because if I say good folks will freak out. But I really don't think he played a bad game.
I'd use mediocre or average for Price. Goals were not his fault but he did nothing to contribute to a win, any goalie in the league could have done what he did for us tonight.. the D was horrific.

WeThreeKings is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:35 PM
  #263
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'd use mediocre or average for Price. Goals were not his fault but he did nothing to contribute to a win, any goalie in the league could have done what he did for us tonight.. the D was horrific.
I think the D made some horrific plays but I didn't think we played that bad on the backend. I would've said mediocre due to the mistakes...

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:36 PM
  #264
WeThreeKings
DJ Salem
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,886
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think the D made some horrific plays but I didn't think we played that bad on the backend. I would've said mediocre due to the mistakes...
Well, if you're saying the 4 goals are legitimate scoring chances.. well 3/4 were.. I'd say the D was horrific. We didn't give up a volume of chances but we gave up too many critical chances at the worst moments.

WeThreeKings is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:40 PM
  #265
Andy
Moderator
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,363
vCash: 500
I would go Price mediocre - Defense Mediocre - Boullion sucks

Andy is offline  
Old
11-01-2013, 10:42 PM
  #266
WeThreeKings
DJ Salem
 
WeThreeKings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 52,886
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to WeThreeKings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I would go Price mediocre - Defense Mediocre - Boullion sucks
If we add Therrion sucks, I'm 100% behind it.

WeThreeKings is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 08:05 AM
  #267
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,935
vCash: 500
Game 1: Price Good, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 2: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 3: Price Good, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 4: Budaj Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 5: Price Good, Defense Bad - Win
Game 6: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Win
Game 7: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 8: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Loss
Game 9: Price Mediocre, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 10: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 11: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Loss
Game 12: Budaj Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 13: Price Mediocre, Defense Mediocre - Loss


Oh and Therrien sucks.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 08:17 AM
  #268
NLHabsFan
Registered User
 
NLHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,622
vCash: 500
I don't think Price played bad, but we needed him to make those saves for the 5min the 4th line was used and killed. Not bad goals given up, but needed him to save that terrible trio and 3rd pairing D for us to win tonight. Move on to the next game, will be tougher.

NLHabsFan is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 08:33 AM
  #269
Frank Drebin
Registered User
 
Frank Drebin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,890
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
People are still debating whether or not Price is good?
Just the few with an agenda.

Price has been great this year.

6th in sv %, and this is after a (statistically) bad game

For those who still don't like him, who would you rather have? Someone said Crawford last year...

Frank Drebin is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #270
Lafleurs Guy
Moderator
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 40,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Just the few with an agenda.

Price has been great this year.

6th in sv %, and this is after a (statistically) bad game

For those who still don't like him, who would you rather have? Someone said Crawford last year...
Came into last night's game with .946. After last night it's .939.

Lafleurs Guy is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 12:23 PM
  #271
Pi
Registered User
 
Pi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,668
vCash: 50
As an outsider, I really don't get the Carey bashing at all.

Let's assume that Carey Price is traded. Who starts in net? Is Peter Budaj the goalie of the future ? No one in UFA as good as Price, even another goalie through trade isn't exactly worth pursuing because they won't be much better than Price, if at all.

I guess I just think that there isn't much of a difference between the best goalie in the league and a top 10-15 goalie. It all just depends on how you play in front of that goalie that matters the most.

Carey Price is the best option for the Habs in net, AINEC. He has shown he can play 70 games, he's shown that he can be consistent (although he can be a bit better in that department) and he's shown he can steal games on his own (the game against Vancouver was a pretty good example of how well Price played).

People forget Price is only 26. Most 26 year old goalies have been in the league for 2-4 years at most and only been a starter for 1-2 of those. Carey is different than most goalies out there in the NHL.

What more do you want from a #1 goalie? It really doesn't get much better than that.

Pi is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 12:50 PM
  #272
Andy
Moderator
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
As an outsider, I really don't get the Carey bashing at all.

Let's assume that Carey Price is traded. Who starts in net? Is Peter Budaj the goalie of the future ? No one in UFA as good as Price, even another goalie through trade isn't exactly worth pursuing because they won't be much better than Price, if at all.

I guess I just think that there isn't much of a difference between the best goalie in the league and a top 10-15 goalie. It all just depends on how you play in front of that goalie that matters the most.

Carey Price is the best option for the Habs in net, AINEC. He has shown he can play 70 games, he's shown that he can be consistent (although he can be a bit better in that department) and he's shown he can steal games on his own (the game against Vancouver was a pretty good example of how well Price played).

People forget Price is only 26. Most 26 year old goalies have been in the league for 2-4 years at most and only been a starter for 1-2 of those. Carey is different than most goalies out there in the NHL.

What more do you want from a #1 goalie? It really doesn't get much better than that.
I agree with everything here, especially the bolded.

Andy is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 12:54 PM
  #273
Draft
Registered User
 
Draft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 4,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Game 1: Price Good, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 2: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 3: Price Good, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 4: Budaj Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 5: Price Good, Defense Bad - Win
Game 6: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Win
Game 7: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 8: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Loss
Game 9: Price Mediocre, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 10: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 11: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Loss
Game 12: Budaj Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 13: Price Mediocre, Defense Mediocre - Loss


Oh and Therrien sucks.
I thought the defence was really bad last game. I'm not sure Price even had a chance on 3/4 of the goals.

Draft is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 01:16 PM
  #274
Habs Icing
Formerly Onice
 
Habs Icing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 7,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Game 1: Price Good, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 2: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 3: Price Good, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 4: Budaj Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 5: Price Good, Defense Bad - Win
Game 6: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Win
Game 7: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 8: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Loss
Game 9: Price Mediocre, Defense Bad - Loss
Game 10: Price Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 11: Price Good, Defense Mediocre - Loss
Game 12: Budaj Good, Defense Good - Win
Game 13: Price Mediocre, Defense Mediocre - Loss


Oh and Therrien sucks.
I don't quite agree with all those adjectives. Some of them should be downgraded to mediocre but why split hairs.

I think a better comparison would be to keep track of how times Price was outplayed by the opposing goalie.

Having said that I don't believe we lost last night because of Price. We didn't win and he was one of the many reasons.

Another thought occurred to me. If Price is selected as the #1 goalie for Team Canada and he soils his underwear - like I suspect he will - will you guys blame Team Canada's defence?

Habs Icing is offline  
Old
11-02-2013, 01:27 PM
  #275
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,111
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Just the few with an agenda.

Price has been great this year.

6th in sv %, and this is after a (statistically) bad game

For those who still don't like him, who would you rather have? Someone said Crawford last year...
My issue with the save % is it only seems to count depending on which side of the Price discussion you're on.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.