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Where can Comrie really end up?

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:25 PM
  #51
JDB3939
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As far as Edmonton wanting Koltsov. Mario likes Koltsov way too much to trade him I think. He has only ever said great things about Konstantin even before he was signed. He has talked with higher regard of Koltsov than with any other Pens prospect I've seen.

Now as for Abid, Beech, or Kraft. All 3 would be available. Not all in one deal necesarily, but 2 of them is a possibility for someone like Comrie.

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09-29-2003, 12:42 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem
Yea.. and Simone Gagne led the team in scoring when his contract was up which meant he got paid 9 million, just like Leclaire! Oh.. wait..

Theres obviously no talking to you Lanny.. your hate for the Oilers just blinds you from any logic.
WTF??? Grab a brain. Who gives a rats ass what team the guy plays for. The fact is that the player made $4.5 million last season. That's what he got paid to do his job. Now he's going to take a hit of $3.4 million to sign with the team, out of the goodness of his heart? Riiiiiiight! Oh wait, I'm saying that because I hate the Oilers, not because it makes complete and total sense.

Okay smart guy. Let me get it straight as to what you're saying.

1) Comrie is asking for only $2 million a season.

2) The Oilers are not prepapred to pay their leading goal scorer from the past two seasons $2 million a season, and are willing to risk the season for a measly $800K.

3) Rich Winter is going to get his client to leave a whack of cash on the table to re-sign with the Oilers.

4) No one is willing to cough up more than a prospect for Comrie, who is only asking for $2 million a season.

5) Comrie has no leverage because he does not have arbitration rights.

These are the things that you're trying to get people to believe? I just want to make sure that this is what you are saying. You know, I don't want my "hate" for the team to get in the way of the comprehension of the obvious.

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Old
09-29-2003, 12:51 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
WTF??? Grab a brain. Who gives a rats ass what team the guy plays for. The fact is that the player made $4.5 million last season. That's what he got paid to do his job. Now he's going to take a hit of $3.4 million to sign with the team, out of the goodness of his heart? Riiiiiiight! Oh wait, I'm saying that because I hate the Oilers, not because it makes complete and total sense.

Okay smart guy. Let me get it straight as to what you're saying.

1) Comrie is asking for only $2 million a season.
Prolly about 2.5ish

Quote:
2) The Oilers are not prepapred to pay their leading goal scorer from the past two seasons $2 million a season, and are willing to risk the season for a measly $800K.
I dont think they want to pay the guy 2.5 million.
Risk the season? Wow.. when did the season start?

Quote:
3) Rich Winter is going to get his client to leave a whack of cash on the table to re-sign with the Oilers.
He doesnt have a choice.
Quote:
4) No one is willing to cough up more than a prospect for Comrie, who is only asking for $2 million a season.
I dont know what youre talking about here. Maybe my comprehension is low. Feel free to explain.

Quote:
5) Comrie has no leverage because he does not have arbitration rights.
He has some leverage if the team goes into the season and starts doing a flames impression. Still not that much. CBA is coming up.. why risk giving a guy a bloated contract for one season?

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Old
09-29-2003, 01:06 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem
Prolly about 2.5ish



I dont think they want to pay the guy 2.5 million.
Risk the season? Wow.. when did the season start?



He doesnt have a choice.

I dont know what youre talking about here. Maybe my comprehension is low. Feel free to explain.


He has some leverage if the team goes into the season and starts doing a flames impression. Still not that much. CBA is coming up.. why risk giving a guy a bloated contract for one season?
1) So where does this magic $2.5 million number come from? Hmmm? I've backed my number up based on what the Oilers paid him last season. Again, why would he take less? A base of $2.5 is possible, but I can't see any agent getting his player a penny less than what he made last season.

2) Yes, risk the season. No Comrie, and nothing in return from him, could be disasterous for Edmonton. We're talking about the team's top line center, not some fourth line plumber who doesn't contribute. We're also talking about the guy who has scored more goals than anyone in Oiler togs over the past two years.

3) Comrie doesn't have a choice? Oh, he has a choice alright. He can sit and watch Lowe and the Oilers sweat. He may not have arbitration rights but he does have the right to with-hold his services and hope for his employer to struggle. And with Horcoff and Reasoner as the top two natural centers in Edmonton that is more leverage than any player in his position can hope for.

4) Comrie was on the block at the draft. The rumors then were the Rangers and the Ducks were interested in Comrie, but were only willing to give up Lundmark or Chistov at the time. Both of those players are still considered prospects. That was also before Comrie held out, which will drive his value even further south.

5) Why risk giving a guy a bloated contract for one season? Why not? K-Lo gave him one for three years, so what's so bad about another year? Hell, if you're willing to set a guy up to pay him $4.5 million in the final year of his rookie contract, where's the harm in paying him 2/3 that to get him under contract for a year before new rules are put in place?

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09-29-2003, 01:22 PM
  #55
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lanny, a few things to set you straight

1 I am pretty sure comrie made 3.5 last year, not 4.5. I read the 4.5 number recently and was pretty sure it was 3.5 total, not 3.5 in bonusses.

2 matheson is saying that a figure of 2.0 mill is where they will settle. I trust his opinion more than anyone on this site, including you.

3 your hatred for the oilers is obvious, always has been, always will be. Relax, it is ok. This site is for fans and you are obviously not a fan of the oilers. Everyone else can respect that. Can you respect our desicion to not give you a lot of credibility when it comes to discussing the oilers?

4 I don't see why people get upset over this. The reality is that none of know where he is headed to so it makes no sense to get all bothered when someone else disagrees with your prognastication. You both look like children.

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09-29-2003, 01:23 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
1) So where does this magic $2.5 million number come from? Hmmm? I've backed my number up based on what the Oilers paid him last season. Again, why would he take less? A base of $2.5 is possible, but I can't see any agent getting his player a penny less than what he made last season.
It comes from logic. Look at Comrie comparables.
Quote:
2) Yes, risk the season. No Comrie, and nothing in return from him, could be disasterous for Edmonton. We're talking about the team's top line center, not some fourth line plumber who doesn't contribute. We're also talking about the guy who has scored more goals than anyone in Oiler togs over the past two years.
Again, the season hasnt even started. Atleast wait till the season begins to start talking about risking the season.
Quote:
3) Comrie doesn't have a choice? Oh, he has a choice alright. He can sit and watch Lowe and the Oilers sweat. He may not have arbitration rights but he does have the right to with-hold his services and hope for his employer to struggle. And with Horcoff and Reasoner as the top two natural centers in Edmonton that is more leverage than any player in his position can hope for.
We'll see..
Quote:
4) Comrie was on the block at the draft. The rumors then were the Rangers and the Ducks were interested in Comrie, but were only willing to give up Lundmark or Chistov at the time. Both of those players are still considered prospects. That was also before Comrie held out, which will drive his value even further south.
If the Oilers got Chistov for Comrie im sure almost every Oiler fan would be happy.

Quote:
5) Why risk giving a guy a bloated contract for one season? Why not? K-Lo gave him one for three years, so what's so bad about another year? Hell, if you're willing to set a guy up to pay him $4.5 million in the final year of his rookie contract, where's the harm in paying him 2/3 that to get him under contract for a year before new rules are put in place?
No one thought Comrie was going to hit all those bonuses. Hell.. i think they were planning on keeping Weight at like 5mil.. leaving Comrie to center the second line.

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09-29-2003, 01:53 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
1) So where does this magic $2.5 million number come from? Hmmm? I've backed my number up based on what the Oilers paid him last season. Again, why would he take less? A base of $2.5 is possible, but I can't see any agent getting his player a penny less than what he made last season.
Remember the goofy contract that Chris Gratton got from the Flyers, the one that gave him a base of $1.5m with a $9m signing bonus? That averaged out to $3.5 million a year... he got less on his following contract. Winter and Comrie knew when they signed the first contract that they wouldn't have the same bargaining power this time.

David Legwand signed for $1.5/$1.7... Mike York signed for $1.2/2.0... Marc Savard, who I hear is pretty similar to Comrie, agreed to $2.0 before his arbitration hearing.


Quote:
2) Yes, risk the season. No Comrie, and nothing in return from him, could be disasterous for Edmonton. We're talking about the team's top line center, not some fourth line plumber who doesn't contribute. We're also talking about the guy who has scored more goals than anyone in Oiler togs over the past two years.
As you yourself have pointed out, the Oilers season would be at risk even with all hands on deck. You're not going to turn around and say Mike Comrie is the difference between playoffs and no playoffs, are you?

Even if the playoffs were a Sure Thing with Comrie signed, the business-sense of signing him to a contract larger than 2-3 home playoff gates just doesn't add up.

Quote:
3) Comrie doesn't have a choice? Oh, he has a choice alright. He can sit and watch Lowe and the Oilers sweat. He may not have arbitration rights but he does have the right to with-hold his services and hope for his employer to struggle. And with Horcoff and Reasoner as the top two natural centers in Edmonton that is more leverage than any player in his position can hope for.
Again, this supposed leverage Comrie has depends on the idea that the Oilers can't afford a losing season. That's dubious. In dollars and cents terms, the Oilers are poised for their best season in several years, thanks to the season ticket base, the new affiliate agreement, the stronger Canadian dollar, and Comrie's contract being done. The team is financially on solid ground up to the end of the CBA, and doesn't need to do anything foolish to get people through the turnstiles.

Quote:
4) Comrie was on the block at the draft. The rumors then were the Rangers and the Ducks were interested in Comrie, but were only willing to give up Lundmark or Chistov at the time. Both of those players are still considered prospects. That was also before Comrie held out, which will drive his value even further south.
Last time I checked, nobody was expecting Kovalchuk...

Quote:
5) Why risk giving a guy a bloated contract for one season? Why not? K-Lo gave him one for three years, so what's so bad about another year? Hell, if you're willing to set a guy up to pay him $4.5 million in the final year of his rookie contract, where's the harm in paying him 2/3 that to get him under contract for a year before new rules are put in place?
Why not?
-because unlike last time, the Oilers have Comrie's NHL rights locked up.
-because the base salary Comrie gets in this contract sets his qualifying offer for every future contract.
-because there's no point in offering a guy more than an arbitrator would give him, especially before he's even eligible to file.
-because giving him that much money really would make him untradeable in today's climate.

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09-29-2003, 02:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by thor dyck
lanny, a few things to set you straight

1 I am pretty sure comrie made 3.5 last year, not 4.5. I read the 4.5 number recently and was pretty sure it was 3.5 total, not 3.5 in bonusses.

2 matheson is saying that a figure of 2.0 mill is where they will settle. I trust his opinion more than anyone on this site, including you.

3 your hatred for the oilers is obvious, always has been, always will be. Relax, it is ok. This site is for fans and you are obviously not a fan of the oilers. Everyone else can respect that. Can you respect our desicion to not give you a lot of credibility when it comes to discussing the oilers?

4 I don't see why people get upset over this. The reality is that none of know where he is headed to so it makes no sense to get all bothered when someone else disagrees with your prognastication. You both look like children.
And a few things to set you straight.

1) The number that I have seen repeated over and over is $4.5 million dollars. That is the one that is widely accepted and discussed. I'll stick with that one thank you.

2) Mathison is a pom pom waiver from the Edmonton media. He's been nothing but a mouth piece for Lowe in this whole sitaution and many others. He is as far from objective as anyone can be. I actually don't see anyone in the Edmonton media that could be construed as being objective, but that is for another post in itself. I have some information from a player agent who has some vested interst in how the Comrie situation shakes out. Player agents talk, so I think his information is pretty solid and probably a helluva lot more accurate. I see no reason for him to say something about the situation that isn't true.

3) I don't hate any team. I hate the clowns that cheer for given teams, especially the ones that refuse to see the obvious in front of them. I have nothing against the Oilers players. They're a collection of bodies that will be cast to the wind in a matter of five years and most will be playing elsewhere. That's the nature of the NHL and it affects every team in the league. So why hate a "team" because the players that are there are not going to be there for an extended period of more than a couple of years for the most part. There are players that I really hate, but very few of them are on the Oilers. As a matter of fact the Oilers have a few of my favorite players, so I don't think it's a hate thing with the team. Just the uneducated mouth breathers who profess their undying devotion to the team and blindly accept anything that comes out of the front office. Oh, and BTW, the Flames have their own fair share of uneducated mouth breathers that drive me up the wall too, so does that mean I hate the Flames as well?

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09-29-2003, 02:28 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
Remember the goofy contract that Chris Gratton got from the Flyers, the one that gave him a base of $1.5m with a $9m signing bonus? ...

... -because giving him that much money really would make him untradeable in today's climate.
Jesus, I give up. Comrie is going to capitulate and sign for the $1.2 million that Lowe is offering, declining all potential bonuses, signing or incentive. He's going to sign before Friday and be in the lineup for the season opener where he will score a hat trick and lead the Oilers to their forst rout of many this season. Comrie will score 50 goals, add 75 assists, win the Art Ross, Richard, Hart and Pearson trophies. He will donate his entire salary to charity, take a vow of silence and become a monk, in the off season, living in the desolate reaches of Tibet, helping others attain enlightenment. Makes complete sense, contrary to the evidence at hand.


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09-29-2003, 02:47 PM
  #60
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Comrie wasn't on the trading block at the draft. The Oilers wanted to move up in the draft into the top 5. The teams in the top 5 wanted Comrie to give up a top 5. The Oilers backed out because they didn't want to trade Comrie.

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09-29-2003, 02:50 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Can you elaborate on that ?

You don't agree that Comrie would be untradable at a salary around $4.5 million per year? At a time when teams are trying to unload *established* stars over salary?

You doubt that there are other examples of players whose lucrative bonuses didn't set the base for their later contracts?

What's the source of this all pressure that's going to force Lowe into caving?

While your sarcastic little spiel was certainly amusing, I'd really appreciate hearing your insight into this.

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09-29-2003, 03:05 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Jesus, I give up.
That's probably the best thing to do when you lose an arguement. By the way, I haven't noticed anyone say any of that stuff in your last post. Why do you make it up and put it in the mouths of Oiler fans?

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09-29-2003, 03:13 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Jesus, I give up. Comrie is going to capitulate and sign for the $1.2 million that Lowe is offering, declining all potential bonuses, signing or incentive. He's going to sign before Friday and be in the lineup for the season opener where he will score a hat trick and lead the Oilers to their forst rout of many this season. Comrie will score 50 goals, add 75 assists, win the Art Ross, Richard, Hart and Pearson trophies. He will donate his entire salary to charity, take a vow of silence and become a monk, in the off season, living in the desolate reaches of Tibet, helping others attain enlightenment. Makes complete sense, contrary to the evidence at hand.

Better hope your not psychic, or you'll be kicking yourself in the rear.

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09-29-2003, 03:32 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
I have some information from a player agent who has some vested interst in how the Comrie situation shakes out. Player agents talk, so I think his information is pretty solid and probably a helluva lot more accurate. I see no reason for him to say something about the situation that isn't true.
Ask your buddy if? Comrie has asked to be traded!
My information is that in fact he did...and long before the holdout.

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09-29-2003, 03:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie
Can you elaborate on that ?

You don't agree that Comrie would be untradable at a salary around $4.5 million per year? At a time when teams are trying to unload *established* stars over salary?

You doubt that there are other examples of players whose lucrative bonuses didn't set the base for their later contracts?

What's the source of this all pressure that's going to force Lowe into caving?

While your sarcastic little spiel was certainly amusing, I'd really appreciate hearing your insight into this.
I completely agree that Comrie is untradeable at $4.5 million a season. Hell, I think he's untradeable at $2.5 million a season. I don't think that is up for debate. What is up or debate is the the situation between the Oilers and the Comrie camp. The Oiler fans are certain that Comrie is going to sign for a silly amount, that being just over the rookie cap. Sure, that makes sense. Ignorance of the fact that he held the team hostage for his first contract. Ignorance of the fact that he's coming off of a contract that made him $4.5 million this past year. Ignorance of the fact that his agent is one of the best in the business and gets what is best for his client. Ignorance of the fact that he is not in camp and the media is trashing him left, right and center. Ignorance of the fact that the Oilers don't have the depth to drop a top six player and the Comrie camp knows this well and would benefit him greatly through a hold out. Ignornace of the fact that Lowe himself stated that he tried to trade Comrie at the draft and that there were no takers. Its one thing to be a fan of a team, but its another to turn a blind eye at the facts that are staring back at you.

So where is the source of all this pressure to sign or trade Comrie? Gee, I don't know, the same desire that drives every team in the NHL? The desire of the Oilers to be competitive and the desire to be a playoff team? Or don't the fans want that in Edmonton? And please don't try and sell me some **** and bull story about the fans in Edmonton being extremely loyal and willing to stand behind the team through thick and thin, or we'll have to remind you of the great support the fans gave the team in the midst of its playoff drought in the 90's. Fans support a winner, plain and simple, and if the Oilers aren't willing to take the required steps to ice a winner it will only be a matter of time before support begins to dwindle. All it takes is the one domino to fall and a lot of bad things can happen (no I'm not saying it is going to, but the potential is there if you know what I mean). The pressure is there to sign a home grown player and a key contributor to the hockey club. If you say there isn't, then you're kidding yourself and probably leaving what looks to be a con-trail behind you when you walk, from all that smoke you've been blowing up your own ass.

As I have said repeatedly in this thread, if the sticking point is a mere $800K per season then Comrie would be signed by now. Hell, K-Lo over-paid Moreau more than that, so that argument is moot. There are substantial dollar values that are obviously standing between a deal. All the indicators are there. What is so bloody hard to believe about it? Lowe bent himself over on the first contract and that is going to be the basis for all other contracts that Comrie signs with Edmonton, and likely any other NHL team. Winter is a damn good agent (likely the best in the business) and will not give in easily. Why would Winter leave money on the table for his client when the loop holes for his next contract will likely be closed after the next CBA? He won't. That is not in the best interest of his client. The best thing he can do is to sit and practice in Michigan and wait for a deal to be hammered out or force a trade a la Mike Peca.

I guess I should turn this whole discussion around and ask WHY is Comrie going to sign for less, give up a chance to exert the leverage he has and get what he wants? Its already been mentioned he doesn't like playing in Edmonton, so why would he sign a deal that would be in the Oiler's best interest and allow them to keep him? He could get more money, be in a city he wants to be in, and have more stability by holding out. Why would he forgo this plan to set himself up for failure?

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09-29-2003, 04:05 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
I completely agree that Comrie is untradeable at $4.5 million a season. Hell, I think he's untradeable at $2.5 million a season. I don't think that is up for debate. What is up or debate is the the situation between the Oilers and the Comrie camp. The Oiler fans are certain that Comrie is going to sign for a silly amount, that being just over the rookie cap. Sure, that makes sense. Ignorance of the fact that he held the team hostage for his first contract. Ignorance of the fact that he's coming off of a contract that made him $4.5 million this past year. Ignorance of the fact that his agent is one of the best in the business and gets what is best for his client. Ignorance of the fact that he is not in camp and the media is trashing him left, right and center. Ignorance of the fact that the Oilers don't have the depth to drop a top six player and the Comrie camp knows this well and would benefit him greatly through a hold out. Ignornace of the fact that Lowe himself stated that he tried to trade Comrie at the draft and that there were no takers. Its one thing to be a fan of a team, but its another to turn a blind eye at the facts that are staring back at you.

So where is the source of all this pressure to sign or trade Comrie? Gee, I don't know, the same desire that drives every team in the NHL? The desire of the Oilers to be competitive and the desire to be a playoff team? Or don't the fans want that in Edmonton? And please don't try and sell me some **** and bull story about the fans in Edmonton being extremely loyal and willing to stand behind the team through thick and thin, or we'll have to remind you of the great support the fans gave the team in the midst of its playoff drought in the 90's. Fans support a winner, plain and simple, and if the Oilers aren't willing to take the required steps to ice a winner it will only be a matter of time before support begins to dwindle. All it takes is the one domino to fall and a lot of bad things can happen (no I'm not saying it is going to, but the potential is there if you know what I mean). The pressure is there to sign a home grown player and a key contributor to the hockey club. If you say there isn't, then you're kidding yourself and probably leaving what looks to be a con-trail behind you when you walk, from all that smoke you've been blowing up your own ass.

As I have said repeatedly in this thread, if the sticking point is a mere $800K per season then Comrie would be signed by now. Hell, K-Lo over-paid Moreau more than that, so that argument is moot. There are substantial dollar values that are obviously standing between a deal. All the indicators are there. What is so bloody hard to believe about it? Lowe bent himself over on the first contract and that is going to be the basis for all other contracts that Comrie signs with Edmonton, and likely any other NHL team. Winter is a damn good agent (likely the best in the business) and will not give in easily. Why would Winter leave money on the table for his client when the loop holes for his next contract will likely be closed after the next CBA? He won't. That is not in the best interest of his client. The best thing he can do is to sit and practice in Michigan and wait for a deal to be hammered out or force a trade a la Mike Peca.

I guess I should turn this whole discussion around and ask WHY is Comrie going to sign for less, give up a chance to exert the leverage he has and get what he wants? Its already been mentioned he doesn't like playing in Edmonton, so why would he sign a deal that would be in the Oiler's best interest and allow them to keep him? He could get more money, be in a city he wants to be in, and have more stability by holding out. Why would he forgo this plan to set himself up for failure?
lol. Nobody wants Comrie, says Lowe? 'fraid not. When Lowe was trying to move up in the draft everybody wanted to do something with either Hemsky or Comrie. Comrie has no where near the leverage you are trying to say he does. The Oilers have a surplus of forwards with out him. Also they have many players who should be healthy this year and have improved performances (Smyth, York, Dvorak). To say that Comrie has ALL the leverage is IGNORANT of the fact that the Oilers have great depth at forward (opposite to your claim of poor depth). The Oilers have excellent depth at forward, and that is why Comrie will probably sit for multiple weeks.

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09-29-2003, 04:09 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Why would he forgo this plan to set himself up for failure?
Quite simple.. because he could end up sitting for more than 2 full seasons if he doesn't sign a contract with the Oilers. K-Lowe can force Mike to sit this season (if he can afford to or not is another question) and the impending CBA lockout might keep him out another year or two. A young player like Comrie can't afford to miss a full season of hockey, let alone two; that much time away from NHL action could severely stunt his growth as a player and his pocket cash. How much Comrie made off his rookie contract is a moot point, he had the Oilers by the neck and forced them to cave in to his demands. This time around it is Lowe's turn and I sincerely hope he doesn't bail from his hardline stance and listen to Winter's proposals.. I say keep the $1.6-$2.0 million offer on the table or trade him, regardless of how the Oilers start the season off.

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09-29-2003, 04:16 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
The Oiler fans are certain that Comrie is going to sign for a silly amount, that being just over the rookie cap. Sure, that makes sense.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I've seen one Oiler fan yet that says Comrie will sign for a low amount. I know many hope he will, but they know it's unrealistic. Most Oiler fans think he'll sit out or be traded.

I think maybe Lanny's just arguing something that isn't there, because I haven't heard any expectations from Oiler fans that Comrie is going to sign at all, let alone for a small amout.

What some of us will argue though, is that Lowe is completely within his rights, and doing the right thing if he doesn't want to cave in to Comrie's demands.

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09-29-2003, 04:22 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by thome_26
lol. Nobody wants Comrie, says Lowe? 'fraid not. When Lowe was trying to move up in the draft everybody wanted to do something with either Hemsky or Comrie. Comrie has no where near the leverage you are trying to say he does. The Oilers have a surplus of forwards with out him. Also they have many players who should be healthy this year and have improved performances (Smyth, York, Dvorak). To say that Comrie has ALL the leverage is IGNORANT of the fact that the Oilers have great depth at forward (opposite to your claim of poor depth). The Oilers have excellent depth at forward, and that is why Comrie will probably sit for multiple weeks.
First of all I have not said Comrie has ALL the leverage. He doesn't. Its the Oiler fans who are arguing, incorrectly, that Comrie has NO leverage (mostly because of having no arbitration rights). Both parties of have leverage they can use in this negotiation. To say otherwise is foolish.

Second, the Oilers have great depth at forward? In what way? Just because you have six guys that can play that fourth line center role doesn't mean you have depth. Where is the proven depth up front in the guys that are going to be your go-to scorers? Ryan Smyth and.... ??? Mike York is the closet thing to being a proven quantity up front. Who else? Isbister... huge question mark. Dvorak... huge question mark. Hemsky... massive question mark. Let me guess, you're counting guys like Horcoff, Reasoner, Pisani, Moreau, Laraque, Rita and Torres as more depth? Sure, they can fill space on the roster and provide the same level of play as the next guy, but that is hardly the depth you need to be successful. You need depth on the top two lines, that pushes guys like York and Isbister to the third and fourth lines, to be successful. At that point you'll have depth. Until then you've got a lot of question marks that you hope end up contributing.

If you think the Oilers are just going to hum along without Comrie you're delusional. Then again, you did argue that the Oilers are not going to miss Carter, Marchant and Niinimaa, so anything is possible in your little world. I know pretty well any team in the NHL can lose four of its top six scorers and not skip a beat. Only in Edmonton.


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09-29-2003, 04:26 PM
  #70
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One more time Spin Doctors...

WHY is Comrie going to sign for less, give up a chance to exert the leverage he has and get what he wants?

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09-29-2003, 04:32 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald

If you think the Oilers are just going to hum along without Comrie you're delusional. Then again, you did argue that the Oilers are not going to miss Carter, Marchant and Niinimaa, so anything is possible in your little world. I know pretty well any team in the NHL can lose four of its top six scorers and not skip a beat. Only in Edmonton.



I don't think they'll hum along with him either....

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09-29-2003, 05:06 PM
  #72
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Thinking that the Oilers with a healthy York, Smyth, and possiblly Dvorak PLUS the improvement of Hemsky (it's not just some little whim, it's a VERy commen thinking that he'll emerge as a top liner full time). Horcoff had an excellent second half, playoffs, and WC so there is reason to think that he'll improve. Horcoff is a guy who will push for top six time. Chimera is a guy who will push for top six time. Rita has the potential (like him or not, or what ever opinion you have of him, he's a top 20 prospect) the be a top six. The Oilers have lots of reason to be optimistic. Everybody knows that Comrie will be missed offensively. Everybody knows Niinimaa will be missed, as well as Marchant to a lesser degree. But to argue that the Oilers don't have the organiztional depth is a joke. How many other teams had a guy play in 65 games, on the fourth line (for about 50 of the games) and score 15 goals? I'm sure there was a couple, although I can't think of any.

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09-29-2003, 06:08 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
The Oiler fans are certain that Comrie is going to sign for a silly amount, that being just over the rookie cap.
I don't recall anybody saying Comrie will accept a Q.O. to play in Edmonton. In fact Oiler fans are increasingly of the view that he'll never play another game as an Oiler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
So where is the source of all this pressure to sign or trade Comrie? Gee, I don't know, the same desire that drives every team in the NHL? The desire of the Oilers to be competitive and the desire to be a playoff team? Or don't the fans want that in Edmonton? And please don't try and sell me some **** and bull story about the fans in Edmonton being extremely loyal and willing to stand behind the team through thick and thin, or we'll have to remind you of the great support the fans gave the team in the midst of its playoff drought in the 90's. Fans support a winner, plain and simple, and if the Oilers aren't willing to take the required steps to ice a winner it will only be a matter of time before support begins to dwindle. All it takes is the one domino to fall and a lot of bad things can happen (no I'm not saying it is going to, but the potential is there if you know what I mean). The pressure is there to sign a home grown player and a key contributor to the hockey club. If you say there isn't, then you're kidding yourself and probably leaving what looks to be a con-trail behind you when you walk, from all that smoke you've been blowing up your own ass.
Nobody is on Comrie's side on this one. His "hometown hero" status is gone, probably forever.

Anyway, what are the consequences if the Oilers suck this season? Missing the playoffs once before the lockout isn't going to kill the fanbase.

You were on record saying the Oilers were longshots to make the postseason, even before the Comrie situation became public. So when you say "risk the season", what are we risking here? Finishing 11th instead of 9th?

And if Comrie is such a difference-maker, how come the overall perception of his ability is so negative on this board? Wasn't your previous Comrie take that he was just a product of first-line minutes and quality linemates, same as Hemsky? When did Comrie become indispensible in your view?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
As I have said repeatedly in this thread, if the sticking point is a mere $800K per season then Comrie would be signed by now. Hell, K-Lo over-paid Moreau more than that, so that argument is moot. There are substantial dollar values that are obviously standing between a deal. All the indicators are there. What is so bloody hard to believe about it? Lowe bent himself over on the first contract and that is going to be the basis for all other contracts that Comrie signs with Edmonton, and likely any other NHL team. Winter is a damn good agent (likely the best in the business) and will not give in easily.
Unfortunately for Mike, the bonuses he received last season don't form the basis of anything except his own expectations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
Why would Winter leave money on the table for his client when the loop holes for his next contract will likely be closed after the next CBA? He won't. That is not in the best interest of his client.
What "loopholes for his next contract"? There are no loopholes for his next contract. He's an RFA, he's qualified... end of discussion.

The CBA raises an interesting issue, though... If Comrie doesn't sign a contract this season, I wonder when his next paycheque is going to be? Could be years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
The best thing he can do is to sit and practice in Michigan and wait for a deal to be hammered out or force a trade a la Mike Peca.
The best thing he can do? At this point that's the only thing he can do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
I guess I should turn this whole discussion around and ask WHY is Comrie going to sign for less, give up a chance to exert the leverage he has and get what he wants? Its already been mentioned he doesn't like playing in Edmonton, so why would he sign a deal that would be in the Oiler's best interest and allow them to keep him? He could get more money, be in a city he wants to be in, and have more stability by holding out. Why would he forgo this plan to set himself up for failure?
Why should he accept less to play in Edmonton? He won't.

Why should he accept less to play somewhere else? Because nobody- not the Oilers, not the team he gets traded to- is going to give him anything close to what you believe he's hoping for. Not 4.5 million, not even 3 million with attainable bonuses.

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09-29-2003, 06:14 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
First of all I have not said Comrie has ALL the leverage. He doesn't. Its the Oiler fans who are arguing, incorrectly, that Comrie has NO leverage (mostly because of having no arbitration rights). Both parties of have leverage they can use in this negotiation. To say otherwise is foolish.

Second, the Oilers have great depth at forward? In what way? Just because you have six guys that can play that fourth line center role doesn't mean you have depth. Where is the proven depth up front in the guys that are going to be your go-to scorers? Ryan Smyth and.... ??? Mike York is the closet thing to being a proven quantity up front. Who else? Isbister... huge question mark. Dvorak... huge question mark. Hemsky... massive question mark. Let me guess, you're counting guys like Horcoff, Reasoner, Pisani, Moreau, Laraque, Rita and Torres as more depth? Sure, they can fill space on the roster and provide the same level of play as the next guy, but that is hardly the depth you need to be successful. You need depth on the top two lines, that pushes guys like York and Isbister to the third and fourth lines, to be successful. At that point you'll have depth. Until then you've got a lot of question marks that you hope end up contributing.

If you think the Oilers are just going to hum along without Comrie you're delusional. Then again, you did argue that the Oilers are not going to miss Carter, Marchant and Niinimaa, so anything is possible in your little world. I know pretty well any team in the NHL can lose four of its top six scorers and not skip a beat. Only in Edmonton.

They were potentially replaced not lost. Only way they would be lost is if they were injured, or if the new guys contribute absolutely nothing.
Comrie will be missed, but he isn't a cog that will decimate the Oilers if missing. The Oilers will go on to play the way they do, and when Comrie is needed or traded than that is that. No point arguing how the Oilers will fair without Comrie, as the season hasn't started yet.

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09-29-2003, 06:24 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny MacDonald
One more time Spin Doctors...

WHY is Comrie going to sign for less, give up a chance to exert the leverage he has and get what he wants?

I think it's probably gone beyond this now, don't you? I think a better question at this point is CAN Mike Comrie and the Oilers come together on a deal.

imo the answer is no. Comrie may not play this season. What's that kids name, Ovechkin? Hmmm.

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