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07-15-2005, 01:00 PM
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Flyers likely to keep Roenick

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Flyers general manager Bob Clarke has two words for Jeremy Roenick, and you might be surprised what they are:

Welcome back.

After reviewing every possible salary cap formula and each of his players' salaries for the 2005-06 season, Clarke has come to the determination that Roenick's $4.94 million contract will fit under what is expected to be a hard cap between $37 million and $39 million.
Another quote:

Quote:
That, Clarke said, means the Flyers will not be interested in signing unrestricted defenseman Scott Niedermayer away from the Devils. Instead, Clarke will try to lure Malakhov back to the Flyers and sign at least one other big defenseman.
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07-15-2005, 01:09 PM
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Dammit!!! Why does Clarke have to go and do something dumb like keep Roenick on board and then try to plead with Malakhov to come back? Why doesn't the man just cut the dead weight from the team and let them go? The man infuriates me. He can do something really, really smart and then at the same token, he does something really, really stupid. What does he not understand? JR is done. Malakhov is done. And you'd figured Malakhov would be the last guy they'd want back after he flat out rejected our offer last summer. The next thing we'll see from him is consideration in bringing Lindros back. Damn Clarke, somebody needs to slap him.

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07-15-2005, 01:09 PM
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I've got two words for Malakhov. Get out.

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07-15-2005, 01:31 PM
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Don't be too upset quite yet. THe choice not to sign Niedermeyer has nothing to do with salary. It has to do with a perceived need. Clarke thinks we need a different kind of defenseman. We could end up with Foote, or Pronger (long shot). The article also said that Blake might be cut loose. There will be plenty of options. We'll get a defenseman, and he'll be a good one. He just won't be as good as Niedermeyer, most likely. ...BUT he'll big bigger and probably a better fit for this team.

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07-15-2005, 01:39 PM
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Oh, I'm not mad about the whole not signing Niedermeyer bit. I wasn't a big advocate of his anyways. I figure he's going out west to Vancouver once Naslund leaves to go to Anaheim.

I'm just upset because we have the real opportunity to free up a lot of money by buying out certain players. One of those players is Roenick and instead they're going to keep him. When you consider that 16 million is tied up in Leclair, Amonte and Roenick, I figured we'd be better off spending the 11 million to buy out all three and then go after some younger players who haven't been qualified (Stillman and Demitra) or who are unrestricted and can help out on the blueline (Rathje and Zhitnik). Instead, Clarke does his wonderful sell job of keeping a concussion prone Roenick and how he's going to talk to a 36 year old Malakhov who has a history of injury and has already turned down one contract offer from us.

I don't get the man and how he thinks. What good is a concussion prone Roenick and an injury prone Malakhov do for our team?

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07-15-2005, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12
Oh, I'm not mad about the whole not signing Niedermeyer bit. I wasn't a big advocate of his anyways. I figure he's going out west to Vancouver once Naslund leaves to go to Anaheim.

I'm just upset because we have the real opportunity to free up a lot of money by buying out certain players. One of those players is Roenick and instead they're going to keep him. When you consider that 16 million is tied up in Leclair, Amonte and Roenick, I figured we'd be better off spending the 11 million to buy out all three and then go after some younger players who haven't been qualified (Stillman and Demitra) or who are unrestricted and can help out on the blueline (Rathje and Zhitnik). Instead, Clarke does his wonderful sell job of keeping a concussion prone Roenick and how he's going to talk to a 36 year old Malakhov who has a history of injury and has already turned down one contract offer from us.

I don't get the man and how he thinks. What good is a concussion prone Roenick and an injury prone Malakhov do for our team?
Roenick, I'm ok with. Malakhov, I'm not.

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07-15-2005, 02:47 PM
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I find it a little funny how willing you all are to spend Sniders' money, Buyouts will be nice for the team, but that is $$$ he is just throwing away. Amonte and Leclair, but I doubt JR too. That is just too much $$, I think JR can still make a good contribution to our team. ( Health is only issue )

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07-15-2005, 02:50 PM
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Malakhov and Roenick were two of our best players in the playoffs last time around.

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07-15-2005, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12
Oh, I'm not mad about the whole not signing Niedermeyer bit. I wasn't a big advocate of his anyways. I figure he's going out west to Vancouver once Naslund leaves to go to Anaheim.

I'm just upset because we have the real opportunity to free up a lot of money by buying out certain players. One of those players is Roenick and instead they're going to keep him. When you consider that 16 million is tied up in Leclair, Amonte and Roenick, I figured we'd be better off spending the 11 million to buy out all three and then go after some younger players who haven't been qualified (Stillman and Demitra) or who are unrestricted and can help out on the blueline (Rathje and Zhitnik). Instead, Clarke does his wonderful sell job of keeping a concussion prone Roenick and how he's going to talk to a 36 year old Malakhov who has a history of injury and has already turned down one contract offer from us.

I don't get the man and how he thinks. What good is a concussion prone Roenick and an injury prone Malakhov do for our team?
Did you see the 03/04 playoffs? Specifically game 6 of the Toronto series?

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07-15-2005, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineers
Malakhov and Roenick were two of our best players in the playoffs last time around.
Malakov had a great playoff run but in general he is not motivated and just goes through the motions - I have seen him too much doing that in the last few years to give him a contract for this team.

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07-15-2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
What good is a concussion prone Roenick and an injury prone Malakhov do for our team?
What good has JR done? You must be kidding! Did you see what he went through in 03-04 and return to be a productive player for us for the playoffs? Game 6 ring a bell? The Blackhawk line vs. New Jersey, I know that should ring a bell. Whose line was responsible for us winning Game 6? Him, Primeau and Gagne. I like JR and glad he is staying. He can still score and the year off helped him. As far as Malakhov, I'm probably in the minority but I like the guy and the way he plays. The first game we got him, he ended up railing a Devil right into the boards and it was a very hard hit. He play solid defense, wasn't a showstopper but did his job. He had a broken jaw but didn't really miss too many games. He came back to be one of the most consistent guys in the playoffs with Markov. He was the guy who had the most minutes out on the ice. He is smooth skater and sees the ice very well.

Now, all that being said. It's not 100% that he will even come back to Philly. Also, we don't go after Nieds, big deal. Still alot of good UFAs to be had like a Foote or an Aucoin. JR is a guy we need. Malakhov is not set in stone. We are in a good situation to have a good mix of vets and rookies who are pretty darn good.

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07-15-2005, 03:08 PM
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JR is a heart and soul kind of guy that provides an example of determination to all his teammates. you might not like his mouth but he gives more effort and heart than any other in the nhl. if philly is going to win the cup, he will play a major part. he may be overpaid a little, but remember he's had a FULL year to recover, he will have live legs and and a renewed desire to win it all.

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07-15-2005, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
That, Clarke said, means the Flyers will not be interested in signing unrestricted defenseman Scott Niedermayer away from the Devils. Instead, Clarke will try to lure Malakhov back to the Flyers and sign at least one other big defenseman.
Adam Foote?

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07-15-2005, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineers
Malakhov and Roenick were two of our best players in the playoffs last time around.
Take a look at Malakhov's track record when it comes time for the playoffs. Take a look and see when he really plays. He really plays when it comes time for a contract. Once he gets his contract, then he becomes the Malakhov that is hurt, moody, and mistake prone. I want no part of Malakhov at all.

As for Roenick, one good playoff series. Let's also not forget that Roenick has the benefit of playing on a scoring line. This team is now ready for Gagne to be the leader in terms of the forward group. Gagne had the "luxury" of playing on a checking line. That's what our greatest young talent out of the forwards was used as....a checker. I'll probably take some flak for this, but if you put Gagne on a scoring line, he probably becomes a bigger benefit to the team than Roenick does. And that's the problem. As long as Roenick remains on the team, all the youngsters will be held back in terms of scoring ability. And the last time I checked, usually the team that scores the most wins. While it's fine and dandy we can prevent goals, it would be nice if our youngsters were given a chance to succeed on the offensive side of the game. That's why I want Roenick gone because as long as he's here, the youngsters will never get a chance. It will always be some line of veterans. I'm willing to be that the top scoring line in Philadelphia won't feature Gagne. I'm willing to bet that it will be something like Knuble-Handzus-Roenick. I'm willing to bet that Gagne is put on a line with Primeau and Kapanen again.

And if that's the case, that does us no good at all.

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07-15-2005, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12
Take a look at Malakhov's track record when it comes time for the playoffs. Take a look and see when he really plays. He really plays when it comes time for a contract.
You said this about Primeau and you were wrong. And you're wrong once again.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid%5B%5D=3339

He was re-signed as a RFA by the Habs in 1998, coming off his highest point total with Montreal but also his highest games played with them. His PPG actually dropped from the previous year from 0.46 to 0.41. He signed with the Rangers coming off a 24 game year in which he was dealt away from the Habs for behavior reasons.

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07-15-2005, 03:35 PM
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Once he gets his contract, then he becomes the Malakhov that is hurt, moody, and mistake prone. I want no part of Malakhov at all.
Sorry, haven't seen that guy with us considering his broken jaw and concussion of Marcy Tucker in Game 5. Didn't see that guy at all.

Quote:
As for Roenick, one good playoff series.
He has been with us for 3 years. His first year he had nothing in the playoffs but neither did anyone else that year in 01.

His other two years:

02-03 Flyers 13 games 3g 5a 8pts
03-04 Flyers 18 games 4g 9a 13pts

In 3 seasons with us, he has averaged 22 goals and 35 assists each year. With Recchi gone, we need him here. As someone else stated in another thread, we will sort of have the same look. A few guys will have 20 goals but no real high scorers. JR needs to be one of those guys and he can be easily.

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That's what our greatest young talent out of the forwards was used as....a checker
Who had 24 goals in 03-04.

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but if you put Gagne on a scoring line, he probably becomes a bigger benefit to the team than Roenick does. And that's the problem.
Why is it a problem? That he finally turns into the player everyone thought he would become? That's great to me.

Quote:
all the youngsters will be held back in terms of scoring ability.
Really? Let's see who is gone or going? Leclair, Amonte, Recchi will or are gone. That's 23, 20 and 26 goals leaving our team. Who is still here that is in the 20 goal club? Gagne. That's the only Flyer to score more than 20. JR and Handzus had 19. Knuble had 21 with Boston and people say he won't get there here. If anything, these young guys are going to be depended on for scoring. Carter, Richards and the others will have the opportunity to score. Hitch, Clarke are not stupid. They watched these young guys play all this year with the Phantoms, they watched them win the Calder. They aren't stupid! They aren't going to be held back. If anything, they will let us get rid of a guy like Brashear or someone else like that. They have nothing to prove, that Calder Cup and their millions of accolades do that for them. A lot of the older guys know these young guys are very good and some may just put them out of a job. Leclair and Amonte in point, not needed anymore with a Carter and Richards waiting in the wings.

Quote:
I'm willing to bet that it will be something like Knuble-Handzus-Roenick. I'm willing to bet that Gagne is put on a line with Primeau and Kapanen again.
And I am willing to bet you it WON'T happen with the influx of talent we have. Hitch saw Gagne play with Nash and Thornton. With all the young guys and Handzus and Knuble, he will be on an offensive line.

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07-15-2005, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12
Take a look at Malakhov's track record when it comes time for the playoffs. Take a look and see when he really plays. He really plays when it comes time for a contract. Once he gets his contract, then he becomes the Malakhov that is hurt, moody, and mistake prone. I want no part of Malakhov at all.

As for Roenick, one good playoff series. Let's also not forget that Roenick has the benefit of playing on a scoring line. This team is now ready for Gagne to be the leader in terms of the forward group. Gagne had the "luxury" of playing on a checking line. That's what our greatest young talent out of the forwards was used as....a checker. I'll probably take some flak for this, but if you put Gagne on a scoring line, he probably becomes a bigger benefit to the team than Roenick does. And that's the problem. As long as Roenick remains on the team, all the youngsters will be held back in terms of scoring ability. And the last time I checked, usually the team that scores the most wins. While it's fine and dandy we can prevent goals, it would be nice if our youngsters were given a chance to succeed on the offensive side of the game. That's why I want Roenick gone because as long as he's here, the youngsters will never get a chance. It will always be some line of veterans. I'm willing to be that the top scoring line in Philadelphia won't feature Gagne. I'm willing to bet that it will be something like Knuble-Handzus-Roenick. I'm willing to bet that Gagne is put on a line with Primeau and Kapanen again.

And if that's the case, that does us no good at all.
I agree. However, I believe Roenick said he is going to be playing with Primeau and Kapanen. IF there is any truth to this, Gagne probably will be on a scoring line. Lets all hope!!

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07-15-2005, 05:43 PM
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I think Roenick can still be a productive player, so I'm not upset that they're going to keep him around.

I was hoping that the Flyers would make a run at Niedermayer, but apparently they are not. The article does not have a direct quote from Clarke saying that Niedermayer is out of the question, but I can take a hint. I never thought that it was that likely anyway, just a hunch.

That still leaves the Flyers with about 7-9 million dollars worth of cap space to play with, and quite frankly I hope they use every bit of it. They need a defenseman, and now that Niedermayer seems to be out of the question, I would consider Foote or Hatcher. Foote will probably be in the neighborhood of 4-4.5 million per year, Hatcher less considering he's making about 3.8 million after the rollback and is coming of a lackluster season. Under Hitchcock again, I think Hatcher could be a pretty productive physical defenseman for the Flyers; not Niedermayer for sure, but a solid guy to have back there in my mind. He would also leave enough left over to spend on at least one more quality winger. I'd love to have Demitra as he'd be my first choice, Stillman would probably be my second.

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07-15-2005, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryforHockey25
but if you put Gagne on a scoring line, he probably becomes a bigger benefit to the team than Roenick does. And that's the problem.


Why is it a problem? That he finally turns into the player everyone thought he would become? That's great to me.
At least add the second part of what I said with regards to playing Gagne on a scoring line. Here's the FULL quote:

"But if you put Gagne on a scoring line, he probably becomes a bigger benefit to the team than Roenick does. And that's the problem. As long as Roenick remains on the team, all the youngsters will be held back in terms of scoring ability. And the last time I checked, usually the team that scores the most wins. While it's fine and dandy we can prevent goals, it would be nice if our youngsters were given a chance to succeed on the offensive side of the game. That's why I want Roenick gone because as long as he's here, the youngsters will never get a chance."

Hey, I have no qualms in people ripping me a new one, but at least get the full quote correct. Truth of the matter is that as long as guys like Roenick are around, our youngsters will always take a backseat to guys like him. And that's the problem in Philadelphia. Until the coach actually decides to embrace the younger players and let them play more than the "grizzled" veterans, they'll always be second and third best options in Hitch's eyes. And that's what bugs me. This is a man who has said in the past he wants to use youth on the scoring lines. Here is his chance and opportunity to back up his words by his actions. And I'm not confident he will do that. The moment that Carter or Richards makes a mistake and if it costs the team a goal, a point, a position standing, he will sacrifice those kids and break what confidence they have. He did it to Williams. He did it to Seidenberg and he was beginning to do it to Pitkanen. He's got to remember that this is not Dallas. As well, he has to remember that we don't have the luxury of unlimited spending anymore and he's going to have no choice but to put his confidence in the kids. If it fails, would anyone on here agree with me that maybe, just maybe we might have to look at a coach who can work well with youngsters?

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07-15-2005, 09:49 PM
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I think it comes down to the fact that the Flyers are a contending team, and having a bunch of rookies running around and crapping their pants is not what contending teams do. Veterans are simply better in the key moments of the game. If this were an also ran team I'd almost agree with you, but they're a contender.

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07-15-2005, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
I think it comes down to the fact that the Flyers are a contending team, and having a bunch of rookies running around and crapping their pants is not what contending teams do. Veterans are simply better in the key moments of the game. If this were an also ran team I'd almost agree with you, but they're a contender.
I could see if it were a couple of 18 year olds coming to the team, but Carter and Richards are both 20 and Umberger is 23. So, we're not getting "rookies running around crapping their pants" so to speak. These are guys who won a memorial cup (Richards), a gold medal at the WJC (Richards and Carter) and have also won the Calder Cup as AHL Champions (Richards, Carter and Umberger).

I don't see them having the typical rookie jitters. You can't teach winning and two of the three have winning pedigrees (Richards and Umberger). If anything, they might be able to help. As for being a contender, come on. We'll make the playoffs, but we aren't a Stanley Cup contender. We've taken too many hits to our roster in terms of players who have come and gone, players who will be bought out, new faces that will be brought in, and just chemistry in general. That's not to slam the team, that's just the brutal truth we're gonna have to face. Recchi is gone and he's been "replaced" by Knuble and Stevenson (I'm not convinced they'll make anyone forget him). Zhamnov is gone. Who knows what's going to happen with Desjardins, but he's not a top 4 defenseman anymore. Leclair will be gone, Amonte will be gone. We're going to have seven or eight new faces. That's a lot of players to work into the lineup.

I'd say we're probably about two seasons away from being serious contenders again. That's not a shot at the team, that's the reality in that we need to shed salaries and that we're gonna have to let players walk in order to give the youngsters playing time. So, we might have no choice but to get used to a bunch of rookies "running around crapping their pants" so to speak.

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07-15-2005, 10:10 PM
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"Good" is a relative term. It's comparative to the teams around you. Most (if not all) teams in the NHL will not have the level of talent on their roster as they did in years past. It's not really difficult to imagine why, seeing as most of the top teams had to go from payrolls usually over 50 million, to under 40, and the crappy teams are still...well...crappy.

Personally I'm not worried about losing Amonte, Recchi, and Leclair at all. In fact, I'm glad they're gone. I'm almost 100% confident that whoever is brought in to replace those players will do at least as good of a job, if not better. At this point in their careers, I would consider all three of them to be dead weight on a team like the Flyers, especially John Leclair. If the Flyers can add another solid top 6 winger (or two) and a solid defenseman, I think they'll be in very good shape, especially since most teams are going to have a harder time making the cap and still fielding a good team.

When the time comes to groom rookies by giving them tons of icetime in key situations, I'll be all for it, but I don't believe that time is now.

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07-15-2005, 10:42 PM
  #23
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I know in my mind that not playing the rookies isn't necessarily a bad thing. The rookies can just be on this team and learn more than if they were on the Phantoms again. We'll have Roenick being his loudmouth self, then there's Primeau who is excited to teach the kids about the small details, and then Clarke will give his input as he usually does. There's just so many players ready to finally be mentors to the youth.

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07-15-2005, 11:13 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagneScores12
I could see if it were a couple of 18 year olds coming to the team, but Carter and Richards are both 20 and Umberger is 23. So, we're not getting "rookies running around crapping their pants" so to speak. These are guys who won a memorial cup (Richards), a gold medal at the WJC (Richards and Carter) and have also won the Calder Cup as AHL Champions (Richards, Carter and Umberger).

I don't see them having the typical rookie jitters. You can't teach winning and two of the three have winning pedigrees (Richards and Umberger). If anything, they might be able to help. As for being a contender, come on. We'll make the playoffs, but we aren't a Stanley Cup contender. We've taken too many hits to our roster in terms of players who have come and gone, players who will be bought out, new faces that will be brought in, and just chemistry in general. That's not to slam the team, that's just the brutal truth we're gonna have to face. Recchi is gone and he's been "replaced" by Knuble and Stevenson (I'm not convinced they'll make anyone forget him). Zhamnov is gone. Who knows what's going to happen with Desjardins, but he's not a top 4 defenseman anymore. Leclair will be gone, Amonte will be gone. We're going to have seven or eight new faces. That's a lot of players to work into the lineup.

I'd say we're probably about two seasons away from being serious contenders again. That's not a shot at the team, that's the reality in that we need to shed salaries and that we're gonna have to let players walk in order to give the youngsters playing time. So, we might have no choice but to get used to a bunch of rookies "running around crapping their pants" so to speak.
If we are not considered contenders, who is? I think we are in the top 3 in the league with Tampa and Calgary. Detroit will not be the same, Colorado should be screwed, Toronto will be fun to beat up on again. We are in very good shape for this new NHL!

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07-15-2005, 11:52 PM
  #25
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Consider that Neidermeyer will most likely command not only a high-priced annual salary, but also quite a lengthy contract. Long-term contracts are organization killers in a salary cap world.

The Flyers are sitting pretty; the last thing they need to do is buy out expensive contracts to create cap room and turn right around and blow it before they even get into camp. Someone will be available for a shorter and cheaper price.

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