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Old
10-20-2013, 07:38 PM
  #26
Sabresfansince1980
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Let me add to what I posted earlier. In 1-3 years...

Girgensons-(Grigorenko, Reinhart, McDavid?)-XXXXX
Ennis-Hodgson-Armia
Foligno-Larsson-Compher
Tropp-Catenacci-Flynn

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Zadorov-Myers
McNabb-Ristolainen
McCabe, Ruhwedel

I think we'd all agree that the defense would be fairly good, and not much different from above.
What does anyone think the biggest weaknesses are for the FWs, aside from a top-six RW?
Buffalo should have a shot at Reinhart or McDavid, but what if they miss both? Put Compher at C and look for a couple RWs?
Even if Reinhart or McDavid is added (or even both), does that roster look strong enough to be a Cup contender?


Last edited by Sabresfansince1980: 10-20-2013 at 07:48 PM.
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Old
10-20-2013, 08:24 PM
  #27
Mike203
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
In 1-3 years...

Girgensons-(Rhinehart, McDavid?)-XXXXX
Ennis-Hodgson-Armia
Foligno-Larsson-Flynn
Tropp-XXXXX-Kaleta/XXXXX

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Zadorov-Myers
McCabe/McNabb-Ristolainen

Not bad, but still needs more top-end scoring talent - at least a winger or two.
I agree we need 2 more top line talents. Here's how I see our lines in a few years

XXXXX-XXXXX-Armia
Girgensons-Hodgson-Compher
Foligno-Ennis-Tropp
Catenacci-Larsson-Bailey

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Zadorov-Myers
McCabe-Ristolainen

I know I missed Grigs, I see him as a bust

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10-20-2013, 08:48 PM
  #28
ZZamboni
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Originally Posted by Mike203 View Post
I agree we need 2 more top line talents. Here's how I see our lines in a few years

XXXXX-XXXXX-Armia
Girgensons-Hodgson-Compher
Foligno-Ennis-Tropp
Catenacci-Larsson-Bailey

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Zadorov-Myers
McCabe-Ristolainen

I know I missed Grigs, I see him as a bust
You're entitled to you opinion. It's a shame you view a drafted 1st round 19 year old as a bust.

I don't like to project players to be on the roster we haven't even drafted like McDavid etc....


I'll just keep it simple and away from fantasy and just say I am excited for the future of what could be.

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Old
10-20-2013, 08:51 PM
  #29
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Not ready to call Grigorenko a bust yet. No one should be really...

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Old
10-20-2013, 08:54 PM
  #30
ZZamboni
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Not ready to call Grigorenko a bust yet. No one should be really...
Correct. But a bunch of fans are.

Just slightly knee-jerk and horribly premature. But opinions are opinions.

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10-20-2013, 09:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Correct. But a bunch of fans are.

Just slightly knee-jerk and horribly premature. But opinions are opinions.

My confidence in him taking the correct steps are pretty low ...

However...one thing that keeps my hopes up is his positive attitude.

"You want to be on the ice, Grigorenko said. So far Im happy, but hopefully its just get more ice time and show my skills, and to get some power-play time would be awesome."

I feel like I compete, Grigorenko said. I feel like for every player its different. I compete. Some guys compete and its hit everyone, good forecheck. For me, compete can be different things like good positioning or if I have the puck good passes. Its all part of the game."

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10-20-2013, 09:03 PM
  #32
Mike203
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Correct. But a bunch of fans are.

Just slightly knee-jerk and horribly premature. But opinions are opinions.
I just don't think you can teach "compete". I hope I'm wrong and he fulfills his potential.

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10-20-2013, 09:10 PM
  #33
haseoke39
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I don't think Grigorenko's going to flunk out of the league. But I don't think he has the compete level to be a top line center, either. I'd be very pleased to see him turn into Derek Roy, maybe eat some lesser opponents on the third line if we can get that top line C in the draft.

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10-20-2013, 10:39 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Correct. But a bunch of fans are.

Just slightly knee-jerk and horribly premature. But opinions are opinions.
What if instead of calling him a bust, or not, for that matter we put a sample roster of guys who have shown that they can play in the NHL and then show possible guys who could fill positions, so we at least know what we definitely have. For example it could be:

xxxxx-Hodgson-xxxxx
Ennis-xxxxx-Foligno (unless foligno goes back to center)
Girgs-Larsson-Flynn
xxxxx-xxxxx-Tropp

Potential fill-ins: Grigs, Armia, Compeher, Bailey Catennacci, Baptiste, Possler

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Myers-xxxxx
xxxxx-xxxxx

Potential fill-ins: Ristolanen, Zadorov, Mccabe, McNabb, Ruhwedel.

While its by no means a projected roster, it displays what we know we have and who could fill in based on what we've seen of them and how we know they can play. This way we aren't writing Grigs into the 1C position but also aren't calling him a bust.

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10-21-2013, 01:34 AM
  #35
ZZamboni
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Originally Posted by jc17 View Post
What if instead of calling him a bust, or not, for that matter we put a sample roster of guys who have shown that they can play in the NHL and then show possible guys who could fill positions, so we at least know what we definitely have. For example it could be:

xxxxx-Hodgson-xxxxx
Ennis-xxxxx-Foligno (unless foligno goes back to center)
Girgs-Larsson-Flynn
xxxxx-xxxxx-Tropp

Potential fill-ins: Grigs, Armia, Compeher, Bailey Catennacci, Baptiste, Possler

Ehrhoff-Pysyk
Myers-xxxxx
xxxxx-xxxxx

Potential fill-ins: Ristolanen, Zadorov, Mccabe, McNabb, Ruhwedel.

While its by no means a projected roster, it displays what we know we have and who could fill in based on what we've seen of them and how we know they can play. This way we aren't writing Grigs into the 1C position but also aren't calling him a bust.

I like and prefer this way of thinking and projecting. Well done. It stays away from fantasy. It stays away from claiming busts or successes. It also (rather safely) assumes Vanek, Stafford, Leino, Kaleta and Miller will be gone which could very well happen. I think Ott may stay with the team for a few years and as much as it may not be liked, Weber as a #5/6. This may be pretty close to accurate at the start of the 2015-2016 season.

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10-21-2013, 02:46 AM
  #36
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I would hope that younger guys would supplant someone like Ennis and we are able to fill the rest of the roster out with veteran help after we've better assessed who brings what.

If that makes sense.

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10-21-2013, 02:47 AM
  #37
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^ down the road, I mean.

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10-21-2013, 05:25 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I don't think Grigorenko's going to flunk out of the league. But I don't think he has the compete level to be a top line center, either. I'd be very pleased to see him turn into Derek Roy, maybe eat some lesser opponents on the third line if we can get that top line C in the draft.
Roy was effective PKing, on PP and as a two way center. He put up roughly 70pts a year before injuries hit. Most of that as our #1 center after the co-captains left. I don't think there is a chance in hell Grigs becomes that type of player.

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10-21-2013, 06:46 AM
  #39
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We're getting our long awaited North American top line C in June - hopefully we get him without giving anything up, meaning we win the draft lottery - the Buffalo Sabres with the first selection in the 2014 NHL Entry Draft are proud to select Sam Reinhart of the Kootenay Ice!!!

We are going to get another first rounder for Vanek, and an extra 2nd rounder or two in Vanek and Miller deals. If luck conspires against us and we are picking 2nd, 3rd or 4th then we use that first rounder to move up a spot or two - to get what we need the most.

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10-21-2013, 09:15 AM
  #40
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There are things that I do like about what they have going on -

- A clear move toward competitive, self-motivated players in the prospect pool
- A move toward size and skill, particularly on defense
- Positioning for multiple high-end picks in each of several consecutive drafts
- A commitment from the ownership and front office to build for the future

The piece that is missing is the complete 1st line players with the drive they now want as the scoring catalysts going forward.

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10-21-2013, 09:15 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Great center depth and defensive depth; that's how you build contenders.
Jame will knight you, and award you a fiefdom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I don't think Grigorenko's going to flunk out of the league. But I don't think he has the compete level to be a top line center, either. I'd be very pleased to see him turn into Derek Roy, maybe eat some lesser opponents on the third line if we can get that top line C in the draft.
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Roy was effective PKing, on PP and as a two way center. He put up roughly 70pts a year before injuries hit. Most of that as our #1 center after the co-captains left. I don't think there is a chance in hell Grigs becomes that type of player.
This. All-situations Derek Roy is the wrong comparison for Grigs.

========
I like that the youth is playing together. If there weren't so many BUF injuries, there would be a better division between the youth in Roch and BUF. I wish RonRol would stop juggling lines so much and just let guys play where they need to play for their long-term role / line, or at least 2/3 of a line.

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10-21-2013, 11:04 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
There are things that I do like about what they have going on -

- A clear move toward competitive, self-motivated players in the prospect pool
- A move toward size and skill, particularly on defense
- Positioning for multiple high-end picks in each of several consecutive drafts
- A commitment from the ownership and front office to build for the future

The piece that is missing is the complete 1st line players with the drive they now want as the scoring catalysts going forward.
I couldn't have said it better.

Your line about the ownership is right on. Pegula is willing to tank for a few years which allows us high end draft picks. No other owner in Sabres history (that I could think of) could do this (or was willing to do this) because they needed the revenues from the team to pay the bills.

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10-21-2013, 11:26 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BottomLiner View Post
We're getting our long awaited North American top line C in June
Look, I want Sam Reinhart on this team too... but please don't use "North American" as some sort of intangible quality. You sound like Andrew Peters or Mike Milbury when you equate nationality with greatness.

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10-21-2013, 02:39 PM
  #44
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Look, I want Sam Reinhart on this team too... but please don't use "North American" as some sort of intangible quality. You sound like Andrew Peters or Mike Milbury when you equate nationality with greatness.
It is an intangible quality that is more common in North American hockey players - the reason there are stereotypes in this world is because there's truth to them. Of course you can't paint everybody with the same broad brush, there are exceptions.

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10-21-2013, 02:53 PM
  #45
Sabre the Win
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Look, I want Sam Reinhart on this team too... but please don't use "North American" as some sort of intangible quality. You sound like Andrew Peters or Mike Milbury when you equate nationality with greatness.
As I posted in another thread and I quote.

Quote:
Being a kid growing up in Canada, around here we have one sport. Hockey. we live, breath and are raised on hockey. We develop great hockey morals and standards at an early age. I don't think there is one kid who didn't play road hockey, ice hockey, ball hockey as a kid. That is why you find more Canadian players with character. Hockey is in our blood as opposed to America where you have NFL, NBA and then Hockey.

Canadian boys are defiantly a good have on any hockey team. Great vision that our top end talent develops from this country and its not just about the money, its for the love of the sport Hockey that we are fed every minute.
and I repeat, too many players these days don't play for the love, they play for the money. Myers being one and of course he's American. Hodgson got a contract and got his money and yet he's out there competing and trying, in the off season he's in Toronto working out why? Canadian boys love the game.

So yeah it kinda is a quality we posses.

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10-21-2013, 03:07 PM
  #46
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and I repeat, too many players these days don't play for the love, they play for the money. Myers being one and of course he's American. Hodgson got a contract and got his money and yet he's out there competing and trying, in the off season he's in Toronto working out why? Canadian boys love the game.

So yeah it kinda is a quality we posses.
This is a frightfully stupid point. Myers was born in the US, but he grew up and developed in Canada. He also has dual citizenship and played for Team Canada in the Junior Championship. Having an American birth certificate is completely irrelevant to what kind of player he is

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Old
10-21-2013, 03:14 PM
  #47
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This is a frightfully stupid point. Myers was born in the US, but he grew up and developed in Canada. He also has dual citizenship and played for Team Canada in the Junior Championship. Having an American birth certificate is completely irrelevant to what kind of player he is
I'm not saying American players are bad, Olympics speak volumes for American born hockey players but Myers is a regressing sloth who plays like he's only in it for the money, not the glory a Stanley Cup can bring. Canadian boys all they dream about is holding that Stanley Cup. That's a quality you get with Canadian hockey players. The Stanley Cup in Canada equals your Super Bowl.

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10-21-2013, 03:17 PM
  #48
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This is a frightfully stupid point. Myers was born in the US, but he grew up and developed in Canada. He also has dual citizenship and played for Team Canada in the Junior Championship. Having an American birth certificate is completely irrelevant to what kind of player he is
Hahaha great response, but it wasn't needed. Those are the type of posts you read, laugh inside a little, and think 'I'm glad I'm not that guy.'

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10-21-2013, 03:23 PM
  #49
Mike203
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As I posted in another thread and I quote.



and I repeat, too many players these days don't play for the love, they play for the money. Myers being one and of course he's American. Hodgson got a contract and got his money and yet he's out there competing and trying, in the off season he's in Toronto working out why? Canadian boys love the game.

So yeah it kinda is a quality we posses.
What the hell? I would take many non Canadian players who have just as much "love for the game". Best 2 defenseman in last 20 years... Chara and Lidstrom.

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10-21-2013, 03:27 PM
  #50
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Hahaha great response, but it wasn't needed. Those are the type of posts you read, laugh inside a little, and think 'I'm glad I'm not that guy.'
Spot on.

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