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Embellishment: How to Rid it From the Game

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Old
10-21-2013, 08:04 AM
  #26
Roll 4 Lines
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Simply calling it would be a good start.

Seems like they call it only along with a trip or a hook, etc. Sometimes there are embellishments with no initial foul, but they rarely call it.

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10-21-2013, 08:07 AM
  #27
Fire Julien
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Hiring good referees who actually call real penalties. But the NHL won't do anything as long as fans accept being robbed of several hundred dollars for every game they attend.

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10-21-2013, 08:09 AM
  #28
Mully
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetcamelfood View Post
The ones that dive are the fringe NHL players and conveniently they dive next to an all start player so they don't mind getting called for a dive because they're still getting what they want which is getting the all star off the ice and the diver's team won't miss their diver very much if called. So this tells me matching penalties don't work. At least just the dive if not also SEVERE fines (hundreds of thousands, especially since most divers don't make more than 900K anyway so they will make them think twice). I know this would never get passed the NHLPA though.
Lots of star players dive and embellish. DK has done it a few times this year.

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10-21-2013, 08:19 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mully View Post
Lots of star players dive and embellish. DK has done it a few times this year.
Yup. We do it too for sure.

I'd like to see diving/embellishing called without cancelling out the initial penalty. Wouldn't mind seeing a major penalty for the Perron-esque dives as well. I just can't see the refs properly assessing the call more times than not.

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Old
10-21-2013, 12:36 PM
  #30
Bruinswillwin77
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It's hard for the refs to distinguish some dives though at real time speed though isn't it?

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10-21-2013, 01:34 PM
  #31
Bmessy
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2 mins for the "trip" or offending penalty
4 mins for the diving
a fine if they see fit
I'd be happy with something like that

or even if the embellishment is bad enough, just call 2 minutes for diving.
Embarrass the player and they will think twice before selling out like a *****
Screw any gray area. If you're falling down easy or pulling full 360s like Krejci you don't deserve to draw any call

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10-21-2013, 01:44 PM
  #32
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I think the only answer is supplementary discipline.

It's just so difficult with the speed of the game to make this call accurately on the ice. Find the offenders on tape and hammer down after.

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10-21-2013, 01:47 PM
  #33
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I think it's too late, the movement started with the Habs, Canucks, and a couple other teams and it was effective enough that now everyone does it.

Fining players for each time would help, but when the maximum fine is what, $10,000? Someone like Subban or the Sedins aren't going to miss that $100,000-150,000 each year....

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10-21-2013, 01:55 PM
  #34
weaponomega
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It has to be supplementary discipline - an incremental fine system, plus an embarrassing write up on the culprit on NHL.com including some sort of animated gif.

I think only after reviewing the incident can you reasonably conclude the player embellished. It is hard for it to be called accurately during games.

I think if the onus is put on referees to try and remove diving, then they'll either call too many things that aren't dives, or out of fear of calling a player for a false dive, they'll call nothing, even blatantly obvious dives.

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Old
10-21-2013, 02:37 PM
  #35
wetcamelfood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mully View Post
Lots of star players dive and embellish. DK has done it a few times this year.
OK fair enough but all I meant was the penalties aren't cutting it so the place to hit them where they care is their $

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10-21-2013, 03:27 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mully View Post
Lots of star players dive and embellish. DK has done it a few times this year.
Yep, and other Biuins have in the past as well.

As for referees missing it in real time, I don't see why fines couldn't be levied after the fact, once video has been reviewed?

Dunno if that would stop it, just an eye-deer.

Edit: I really should read 2 posts before mine before I comment! LOL

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10-21-2013, 03:28 PM
  #37
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To me, calling a player for diving when he just lost an edge/tripped over a stick is just as bad as letting diving players go unpunished. I think walking that line is giving refs the yips. They call no dives, or call them on blown tires or head snaps. Look back at the Avs game. DK could have had a pair of embellishment calls and I wouldn't have blinked an eye. Loui gets tangled up, trips, and then pops right back up to contest for the puck. They call that embellishment? I thought the original penalty was a bit ticky tacky anyway, but still. WTF?

I think continuing to fight for the puck should be proof against a diving call. All else being equal, the player who keeps scrambling should get the benefit of the doubt, and the player who takes their time while waiting for the arm to go up shouldn't. I think if the refs took that into account, the whole thing would be a lot easier to call. You're already calling the penalty, take a second to assess the possible dive.

That said, they also need to man up and call some solo dives, even on stars. No way to do it but to do it.

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Old
10-21-2013, 04:13 PM
  #38
Mully
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wetcamelfood View Post
OK fair enough but all I meant was the penalties aren't cutting it so the place to hit them where they care is their $

Could not agree more. Call out the offenders and stick them with a fine.

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Old
10-21-2013, 05:01 PM
  #39
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Fine the offenders AND the coach.

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10-21-2013, 05:10 PM
  #40
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I just don't know if fines will do anything. Wouldn't the NHLPA have to agree to it? ..And if that is indeed the case, can we truly expect the fine amount to be harsh enough to discourage future diving? If the PA has no say in the implementation of fines for diving, then I'll support it if and only if the fines are astronomically high. Otherwise, it's just going to be a situation like in the NFL, where guys like Suggs and Meriweather will pay the 10k and keep on violating the rules.

And if none of my post makes any sense, it's because of pain medication.

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Old
10-21-2013, 05:19 PM
  #41
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You will never get rid of it completely. Teams that tend to have a good power play will continue to do it because they get the results they want from it. Simple as that. I hate diving and I REALLY hate it when the Bruins do it. Our power play is more of a burden than anything else so I don't understand why that is anyone's strategy. I don't know what's gotten into Krejci this season but he better cut it out quick.
Ways to decrease it would be to call it consistently and harshly. I like the idea of a 4 minute minor for first offense and a game misconduct if the player does it again in the same game. However, eliminating diving does not seem to be a priority at all to the NHL and the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

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10-21-2013, 05:33 PM
  #42
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I don't like the idea of penalizing a player more than two minutes for embellishing. I've seen players get called for embellishing that were not embellishing at all, but the ref simply missed what caused the player to react. It's not fair to give a team a sizable disadvantage over something that can be so subjective and easily missed.

The fairest and best way to get rid of embellishment is to have incidents reviewed after games by a committee, much like they do with dirty hits. When a player clearly embellishes (much easier to see with replays from multiple angles than live) then fine and warn him on the first offense. A second offense should get a larger fine and suspension. A third offense should get an even larger fine and longer suspension, and so on and so forth. Being kept out of games is a pretty big deterrent.

I guarantee you that method will cut embellishment down in a huge way. The only reason players embellish is because they can get away with it fairly easily. Once they realize that their antics are being looked at on replay and that there are severe consequences then they will tone it down. Will there still be incidents of embellishment? Probably, however over time it will become rare to see embellishment. The NHL needs to do something about this as soon as possible. It soils the game's honor.

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10-22-2013, 07:24 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zestfule View Post
Honestly, I think diving is too hard to call during the play, we always have plenty of replays to ponder over and scream dive the refs have to make a split second decision. I think the refs should report cases where they weren't sure and have BS look into each one and access heavy fines whenever it happens and if a player gets 3 or something they get suspended a game, eventually the players will catch on. It might be a slower solution but I think this would be the safest way to go about it.
This.

It would be too difficult to identify and take action against during the game. Retrospective action is the way to go, just suspend them for every game they take a dive. Either way some sort of action needs to be taken.

As a massive football (the real kind) fan, I've seen just what happens when nothing gets done to prevent players from trying to cheat the ref. Before you know it, you have every other player diving when possible in order give their team the upper hand. It's really spoilt such a great game in a big way.

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10-22-2013, 08:34 AM
  #44
ODAAT
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2 minutes for the initial penalty call made, 4 for making the game look like a laughingstock.

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10-22-2013, 08:44 AM
  #45
Donnie Shulzhoffer
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Actually enforce the current rules.

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10-22-2013, 08:50 AM
  #46
ODAAT
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Originally Posted by Donnie Shulzhoffer View Post
Actually enforce the current rules.
C`mon Donnie, now your just being foolish

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10-22-2013, 08:52 AM
  #47
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C`mon Donnie, now your just being foolish
Sorry about that. I should know better to make sense in this forum.

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10-22-2013, 08:52 AM
  #48
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Sorry about that. I should know better to make sense in this forum.
Yep, no place for making sense nor rational thoughts

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10-22-2013, 09:09 AM
  #49
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I really like the double-minor idea.

A version of that which might be easier for the league to swallow is giving each team one embellishment call per game. Second embellishment call gets a bench minor for unsportsmanlike (if matching) or delay of game (solo call) tacked on. This would mean another player that was on the ice has to sit at the same time so you are down at least one guy (if matching) or two guys (solo call).

This preserves the league leanings of "more offense" which is why I think its not called as a matching penalty very often. The league wants power plays because they equal goals.

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Old
10-22-2013, 09:29 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Donnie Shulzhoffer View Post
Actually enforce the current rules.
I'd vote for you if you ran for any public office...

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