HFBoards Goals against per minute?
 Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie
 Notices Please do not post or solicit links to illegal game streams.

 By The Numbers Hockey Analytics... the Final Frontier. Explore strange new worlds, to seek out new algorithms, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

# Goals against per minute?

 12-21-2012, 11:49 AM #1 Nalens Oga HeavenOrLasVegas     Join Date: Jan 2010 Country: Posts: 13,969 vCash: 2405 Goals against per minute? Just wondering if this stat exists to measure the goals scored on a player while he's on the ice (strictly against, not +/-) divided by the amount of minutes he plays. It should be fairly easy to measure I'd think but I don't see it listed anywhere. Obviously we can look at goals scored while against a player while he's on the ice but then top pairing dmen would have as many or more goals scored while they're on the ice against them as a 3rd pairing however equalizing it based on minutes played would lead to more interesting numbers.
12-21-2012, 01:16 PM
#2
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Oh God What's This

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country:
Posts: 75,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by QuietCompany Just wondering if this stat exists to measure the goals scored on a player while he's on the ice (strictly against, not +/-) divided by the amount of minutes he plays. It should be fairly easy to measure I'd think but I don't see it listed anywhere. Obviously we can look at goals scored while against a player while he's on the ice but then top pairing dmen would have as many or more goals scored while they're on the ice against them as a 3rd pairing however equalizing it based on minutes played would lead to more interesting numbers.

www.behindthenet.ca tracks that. Through mid December last year, for instance, they had Sean Couturier at .98 GAON/60, which led the team by a hilariously huge margin considering quality of competition as well.

__________________
Saturday night, I like to raise a little harm. I'll sleep when I'm dead.

12-21-2012, 02:27 PM
#3
wgknestrick
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus www.behindthenet.ca tracks that. Through mid December last year, for instance, they had Sean Couturier at .98 GAON/60, which led the team by a hilariously huge margin considering quality of competition as well.
Just remember the behindthenet numbers are not adjusted for goaltender and that Couturier's results (while impressive) are not sustainable over an entire season. Min is about 1.3GA/60 for just about any season (assuming 50 games played as qualifiers).

If they could also adjust the GA/60 for quality of comp and quality of goaltender, I think you are honing in on the most important single defensive metric in all of hockey.

 12-21-2012, 03:22 PM #4 Beef Invictus Global Moderator Oh God What's This     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Centreville Country: Posts: 75,395 vCash: 500 If they factor quality of goaltender, that makes Couturier's numbers even more impressive And no, he did not sustain that pace. I think he dropped to 1.50 by the end of the season, maybe worse. He was possibly helped by Timonen also having a beastly run from mid November until he started breaking down in late Dec/early Jan. You're right, GAON/60 isn't all that great for comparing players on different teams because goalie quality isn't accounted for. But it's very good for comparing players on the same team. Edit: The main reason I mention Couturier is that he's great for showing how effective the stat can be; the eyeball test showed Couturier was easily the best defensive forward on his team, and the stat showed the same thing. In that case it's easy to test how reliable it is because there was such obvious separation between his skill and his teammates' skill, and the stat reflected it. The Flyers were a good testbed because they had one forward who was very good defensively, 2-3 other guys who were adequate, and the rest...not so much. The standout player stood out. Last edited by Beef Invictus: 12-21-2012 at 03:29 PM.
 12-21-2012, 03:36 PM #5 seventieslord Student Of The Game     Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Regina, SK Country: Posts: 31,114 vCash: 500 Jeez, from what I recall, defensive ability wasn't even part of "the book" on Couturier pre-draft. I thought he was the next LeCavalier.
12-21-2012, 08:33 PM
#6
Mike Farkas
Grace Personified

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Country:
Posts: 7,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by seventieslord Jeez, from what I recall, defensive ability wasn't even part of "the book" on Couturier pre-draft. I thought he was the next LeCavalier.
Negative, seventies, at least from my viewings of him. I saw him as closer to a Jordan Staal type, not VL4. Maybe other outlets penned him otherwise though...

 12-31-2012, 01:39 AM #7 Beef Invictus Global Moderator Oh God What's This     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Centreville Country: Posts: 75,395 vCash: 500 Reading this again makes me really wish we had a stat for goalie quality. I'm not a math savant so I can't even imagine how that would work. Defensive stats rely in part on the goalie; goalie stats rely in part on the defense. And so on, etc. As for Couturier, once he was drafted I did my research. I determined he was "competent" defensively...which ended up being an understatement. If Philly has to choose between Schenn and Couturier, I hope they keep him. Bobby Clarke II? I sure freaking hope so.
01-02-2013, 02:56 PM
#8
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment

Join Date: Feb 2002
Country:
Posts: 132,155
vCash: 50
Quote:
 Originally Posted by seventieslord Jeez, from what I recall, defensive ability wasn't even part of "the book" on Couturier pre-draft. I thought he was the next LeCavalier.
Well, he did claim prior to the draft that he prides himself on being a 200-foot player.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus Reading this again makes me really wish we had a stat for goalie quality. I'm not a math savant so I can't even imagine how that would work. Defensive stats rely in part on the goalie; goalie stats rely in part on the defense. And so on, etc. As for Couturier, once he was drafted I did my research. I determined he was "competent" defensively...which ended up being an understatement. If Philly has to choose between Schenn and Couturier, I hope they keep him. Bobby Clarke II? I sure freaking hope so.
NO! Don't compare him to Clarke. We know what happens when that starts being put out there.

__________________

 01-02-2013, 08:41 PM #9 Beef Invictus Global Moderator Oh God What's This     Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Centreville Country: Posts: 75,395 vCash: 500 LA can thank me later.
12-15-2016, 10:36 AM
#10
Riptide
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Yukon
Country:
Posts: 26,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Nalens Oga Just wondering if this stat exists to measure the goals scored on a player while he's on the ice (strictly against, not +/-) divided by the amount of minutes he plays. It should be fairly easy to measure I'd think but I don't see it listed anywhere. Obviously we can look at goals scored while against a player while he's on the ice but then top pairing dmen would have as many or more goals scored while they're on the ice against them as a 3rd pairing however equalizing it based on minutes played would lead to more interesting numbers.
I'm going to bump an old thread and for that I apologize. But BTN doesn't have any data for the 16-17 season. Is there another site that might have this info (pure ES goals against)? I'm not actually looking for the GA60, but just the GA at ES.

__________________
I've been looking for trouble... but trouble hasn't been cooperating!

12-15-2016, 04:25 PM
#11
Connor McDaigle
Eetu, Brute?

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,224
vCash: 50
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Riptide I'm going to bump an old thread and for that I apologize. But BTN doesn't have any data for the 16-17 season. Is there another site that might have this info (pure ES goals against)? I'm not actually looking for the GA60, but just the GA at ES.
You should be able to use corsica, in on-ice stats. Way over to the right hand side of the table. It's only 5v5, not ES, but it should be close to what you're looking for.

12-15-2016, 11:41 PM
#12
major major
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 11,987
vCash: 500
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Riptide I'm going to bump an old thread and for that I apologize. But BTN doesn't have any data for the 16-17 season. Is there another site that might have this info (pure ES goals against)? I'm not actually looking for the GA60, but just the GA at ES.
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/

I think this is the same source data.

Forum Jump