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Is it time for Lou to get his walking papers

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Old
11-05-2013, 09:07 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by ZadorovNJD View Post
It will be a huge embarrassment when we forfeit a top 5 pick and Lou should be fired for keeping #29 to draft a future 4th liner.
Or the 2014 Draft comes and goes and the world keeps turning

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11-05-2013, 10:00 PM
  #552
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How can people come to a conclusion on something when they have not the least bit of a clue of what they are talking about?
Welcome to the internet.

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11-05-2013, 10:01 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
I don't know why you seem to think that whatever Lou will do, it's bound to turn into gold and that the rest of the other gm's are nothing more then "ok" and wouldn't do a solid job no matter what.

The game has passed him by in several aspects. His dinosaur mentality has screwed us more often then not and we need someone who understands "today's game" and isn't stuck in the past.
You keep vomiting this stuff out, yet you never say how it is 'passed him by', you never name a possible better replacement, and you never say what you would do differently.

Yeah - I'm sure there are good GMs out there and maybe even the best GM ever that no one has hired yet. Good. Find them.

I didn't say it will all turn to gold, and I didn't even say we'll make the playoffs this year.

Just simply, in my opinion: looking at what he could have done this offseason, and looking at what he did, and looking at what he needs to do now - I don't see anything wrong in his performance that means we need to fire the guy.

The 29th pick - gotcha, I think we all think this was braindead.
Clowe - seems like everyone hates the contract terms, and half of us hated signing the guy in the first place.
Urbom - yeah, seems like we are 50-50 split on this.
Sal and Pando get too big a contract.
Rolston signing looked good on paper at the time, was a disaster in hindsight.
Travis (in hindsight) got too big a contract.

What, exactly, does 'the game has passed him by' entail? Everyone lauded his offseason moves at the time. Do you know of some free agents that weren't on the market but really were?

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11-05-2013, 10:24 PM
  #554
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Being a GM involves a lot of guesswork and probabilistic thinking, most of the work happens behind the scenes and only the final product makes the press; being a fan involves (rightly or wrongly) viewing things from a starkly results oriented viewpoint mostly because we don't see any of the off-screen wizardry; res ipsa loquitur.

From this largely uninformed standpoint, I still trust Lou; not to be perfect but to see the whole picture more clearly than most.

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11-06-2013, 08:22 AM
  #555
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I think what has been such a huge problem for Lou has been the ownership. I think the ownership was a bigger problem than we think.

Vanderbeek was probably the reason why they could attract many big free agents especially if there are money problems. Maybe that is why Lou has had to overspend just to get people to come to NJ. Lets be honest if you were a free agent would you want to sign with the step child to New York and Philadelphia with a potentially broke owner unless you were getting paid a ton?

Notice how the Devils started to go down him around the lockout time? Vanderbeek bought the Devils from Puck Holdings in 2004. I feel since Vanderbeek took over the team hasn't been as successful, in terms of results, as the Devils had before. Deep down from the second Kovalchuk became a Devil I knew it was an ownership move and not a Lou move. Vanderbeek left this team in terrible shape and now is Lou's problem with Lou getting the blame.

I think Vanderbeek was the reason why Lou has been handcuffed. Vanderbeek wasn't a great owner and in my opinion The Devils would have been better off if Puck Holdings still had control.

But hey thats just me.

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Old
11-06-2013, 10:51 AM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
You keep vomiting this stuff out, yet you never say how it is 'passed him by', you never name a possible better replacement, and you never say what you would do differently.

Yeah - I'm sure there are good GMs out there and maybe even the best GM ever that no one has hired yet. Good. Find them.

I didn't say it will all turn to gold, and I didn't even say we'll make the playoffs this year.

Just simply, in my opinion: looking at what he could have done this offseason, and looking at what he did, and looking at what he needs to do now - I don't see anything wrong in his performance that means we need to fire the guy.

The 29th pick - gotcha, I think we all think this was braindead.
Clowe - seems like everyone hates the contract terms, and half of us hated signing the guy in the first place.
Urbom - yeah, seems like we are 50-50 split on this.
Sal and Pando get too big a contract.
Rolston signing looked good on paper at the time, was a disaster in hindsight.
Travis (in hindsight) got too big a contract.

What, exactly, does 'the game has passed him by' entail? Everyone lauded his offseason moves at the time. Do you know of some free agents that weren't on the market but really were?
I've said so numerous times and called out for saying the same **** over and over again.

1- Our blueline is made to play in the mid 1980's, not in today's game. We have a cement skater on 2/3 of our units when everyone is healthy and both players are our two highest paid d-men. That right there is just insane when you think about it !!!

2- We've been drafting poorly in the past several years and it's up to Lou to choose a proper staff.

3- We can't seem to get the best out of our better prospects

4- We've been losing key players to free agency over and over and over and over again... FOR FREE.

5- Lou's dinosaur mentality has hurt us more ways then one since he doesn't want to talk contract during the regular season. That point is in direct link to point #4 cause instead of getting a vibe of what someone will demand when talks will get underway, we could've sold a piece we had no intention on keeping for valuable asset... just like Doug Wilson did last year with Clowe and Murray.

6- Lou doesn't believe in rebuilds, wich is "ok" if you have a solid core to work with. We don't have that solid core now that Parise and Kovalchuk bolted elsewhere but he still tried to patch a massive hole with several UFA's and even the dumbest Gm alive knows that you can't build a contender in a single year by "buying" talent left and right. Lou has been giving us the "band-aid" treatment for the past several years now and it's leading us no where.

7- Lou's been offering absurd contracts every other year to players like Zajac, Clowe, Salvador, #28, Pandolfo, etc...

8- Not handing in the 29th overall pick, on top of the middle finger, to Bettman was possibly the worst decision of all time IMO. A 2nd grader would've taken the right decision, yet, our HOF'er didn't and we'll look like the biggest idiots come draft day and we're screwing ourselves out of a solid prospect... something we need more then any other team cause we're starting to look like the ****ing Calgary Flames when talking about our pipeline.

9- We had to dress 16 forwards for about a month cause we couldn't under the cap... how bad is that?

With all those points, if the name of the person who made those decisions was "Johnny Smith", he would've been canned by now but since we like to work with the past and not the present, Lou's still around to take bad calls on top of bad calls.


Last edited by DEVILS ALL THE WAY*: 11-06-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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Old
11-06-2013, 11:20 AM
  #557
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... Add to that list point #10.

10- Call up one of the worst hockey players of all time in Cam Janssen, to spark a team that is filled with veterans.


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11-06-2013, 11:30 AM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Dominion View Post
How the heck did Lou choose Harrold over Urbom?

Every time I see Urbom play he looks good/smooth and talented.
dime a dozen

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11-06-2013, 11:33 AM
  #559
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healthy scratch up until a week ago and still nothing more than an average hockey player

so yes, dime a dozen

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11-06-2013, 11:33 AM
  #560
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this thread is exactly why we should not be so quick to dismiss Lou. this isnt some head coach we can can after 20 months- this has to be somewhat permanent. change is good and all, but when lou is gone a loooot of people are going to miss 'the good old days'.

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11-06-2013, 11:37 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
You keep vomiting this stuff out, yet you never say how it is 'passed him by', you never name a possible better replacement, and you never say what you would do differently.

Yeah - I'm sure there are good GMs out there and maybe even the best GM ever that no one has hired yet. Good. Find them.

I didn't say it will all turn to gold, and I didn't even say we'll make the playoffs this year.

Just simply, in my opinion: looking at what he could have done this offseason, and looking at what he did, and looking at what he needs to do now - I don't see anything wrong in his performance that means we need to fire the guy.

The 29th pick - gotcha, I think we all think this was braindead.
Clowe - seems like everyone hates the contract terms, and half of us hated signing the guy in the first place.
Urbom - yeah, seems like we are 50-50 split on this.
Sal and Pando get too big a contract.
Rolston signing looked good on paper at the time, was a disaster in hindsight.
Travis (in hindsight) got too big a contract.

What, exactly, does 'the game has passed him by' entail? Everyone lauded his offseason moves at the time. Do you know of some free agents that weren't on the market but really were?
Asking someone to name a replacement GM is worthless. The pool of potential GM candidates spans across several areas. You need look no further than Lou himself. What so called credentials did he have at the time? You seem to think it needs to be somebody already in an "NHL" desk in some capacity or have had playing experience. Not true.

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11-06-2013, 11:43 AM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
healthy scratch up until a week ago and still nothing more than an average hockey player

so yes, dime a dozen
true. plus, he's nearing 40, so i think we can safely say that he has reached his ceiling, under proper development, and will probably be a toll taker within the next 4 years. it's best that we lost him for nothing

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11-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
I've said so numerous times and called out for saying the same **** over and over again.

1- Our blueline is made to play in the mid 1980's, not in today's game. We have a cement skater on 2/3 of our units when everyone is healthy and both players are our two highest paid d-men. That right there is just insane when you think about it !!!

2- We've been drafting poorly in the past several years and it's up to Lou to choose a proper staff.

3- We can't seem to get the best out of our better prospects

4- We've been losing key players to free agency over and over and over and over again... FOR FREE.

5- Lou's dinosaur mentality has hurt us more ways then one since he doesn't want to talk contract during the regular season. That point is in direct link to point #4 cause instead of getting a vibe of what someone will demand when talks will get underway, we could've sold a piece we had no intention on keeping for valuable asset... just like Doug Wilson did last year with Clowe and Murray.

6- Lou doesn't believe in rebuilds, wich is "ok" if you have a solid core to work with. We don't have that solid core now that Parise and Kovalchuk bolted elsewhere but he still tried to patch a massive hole with several UFA's and even the dumbest Gm alive knows that you can't build a contender in a single year by "buying" talent left and right. Lou has been giving us the "band-aid" treatment for the past several years now and it's leading us no where.

7- Lou's been offering absurd contracts every other year to players like Zajac, Clowe, Salvador, #28, Pandolfo, etc...

8- Not handing in the 29th overall pick, on top of the middle finger, to Bettman was possibly the worst decision of all time IMO. A 2nd grader would've taken the right decision, yet, our HOF'er didn't and we'll look like the biggest idiots come draft day and we're screwing ourselves out of a solid prospect... something we need more then any other team cause we're starting to look like the ****ing Calgary Flames when talking about our pipeline.

9- We had to dress 16 forwards for about a month cause we couldn't under the cap... how bad is that?

With all those points, if the name of the person who made those decisions was "Johnny Smith", he would've been canned by now but since we like to work with the past and not the present, Lou's still around to take bad calls on top of bad calls.
I'll refute this point by point.
#1 - The current D could be better constructed, that's true. Although, you seem to think that the whole league is full of Euro skaters and the rinks have gotten huge. Guys like Pronger, Weber, Orpik etc are still useful in this league. You conveniently neglect to say where these guys are supposed to come from. Lou went out and got Tallinder who moves well, along with Volch and they worked fine for a year or two and then things have changed with injuries and age.
#2 - We've drafted great defensemen. We have picked late first round and gotten great value in the Merrill, Severson, Santini picks. You and I disagree on Tedi/Josefson being busts, so until that pans out one way or another, you don't have an argument here - or at least the statement 'we've drafted poorly' is just your opinion and entirely debatable.
#3 - uh, how much of this is on the prospect? or the coach who doesn't play him?
#4 - Ok, if you are GM - which one of those free agents do you get to stay?!? This is a bad argument. Do you move the team to Minn? Russia? Detroit? Anaheim? Do you break the bank for Gomez? Gionta? Clarkson? All good non-signings IMO.
#5 - I think negotiating a contract during the season is stupid and a distraction. You have all off-season for such things. Should he have given Parise an extension? Hell Yes. Do we know that he didn't try and Parise was just determined to get to free agency? Do we know that he absolutely wasn't coming back if Suter went elsewhere? We don't know any of those things. Losing FAs sucks, but Lou has to try, and we were a frigging game away from a championship that you would have broken up at the deadline. That's the bottom line.
#6 - I agree the core needs to be rebuilt. That comes from the farm. We are in process of that. Obviously losing your captains and favorite players in successive years hurts. Getting Schneider is rebuilding the core. Signing Zajac longterm is rebuilding the core. Signing Henrique is rebuilding the core. Larsson and Gelinas and Merrill and Boucher will be the core in the coming years. Name a 'core' free agent you would have signed/traded for and then you could win this point, but you can't.
#7 - Pandolfo 2.5m thank you isn't absurd. Zajac's contract was widely praised by just about everyone. You can't have your argument both ways. If he offered an absurd contract to Parise, and then he went in the tank with 10 goals a season, you'd be whining here now too. You can't just Monday morning QB EVERYTHING. That said - the Clowe thing was a disaster. I pointed that out already.
#8 - yeah I pointed that out already.
#9 - forgot about this - yes, this was just stupid.

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11-06-2013, 12:32 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
this thread is exactly why we should not be so quick to dismiss Lou. this isnt some head coach we can can after 20 months- this has to be somewhat permanent. change is good and all, but when lou is gone a loooot of people are going to miss 'the good old days'.
the good old days have been gone for 10 years, Lou needs to go

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11-06-2013, 12:57 PM
  #565
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Originally Posted by DEVILSEBO View Post
Asking someone to name a replacement GM is worthless. The pool of potential GM candidates spans across several areas. You need look no further than Lou himself. What so called credentials did he have at the time? You seem to think it needs to be somebody already in an "NHL" desk in some capacity or have had playing experience. Not true.
So you are saying that in your opinion, a complete unknown out there is better than Lou Lams as GM. You would rather just go with whomever they find and you think they will do a better job.

Ok. That makes loads of sense.

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11-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #566
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If Lou trades Brodeur at the deadline (if we are still out of the playoffs at that point), then I will be so done with this team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
I'll refute this point by point.
#1 - The current D could be better constructed, that's true. Although, you seem to think that the whole league is full of Euro skaters and the rinks have gotten huge. Guys like Pronger, Weber, Orpik etc are still useful in this league. You conveniently neglect to say where these guys are supposed to come from. Lou went out and got Tallinder who moves well, along with Volch and they worked fine for a year or two and then things have changed with injuries and age.
#2 - We've drafted great defensemen. We have picked late first round and gotten great value in the Merrill, Severson, Santini picks. You and I disagree on Tedi/Josefson being busts, so until that pans out one way or another, you don't have an argument here - or at least the statement 'we've drafted poorly' is just your opinion and entirely debatable.
#3 - uh, how much of this is on the prospect? or the coach who doesn't play him?
#4 - Ok, if you are GM - which one of those free agents do you get to stay?!? This is a bad argument. Do you move the team to Minn? Russia? Detroit? Anaheim? Do you break the bank for Gomez? Gionta? Clarkson? All good non-signings IMO.
#5 - I think negotiating a contract during the season is stupid and a distraction. You have all off-season for such things. Should he have given Parise an extension? Hell Yes. Do we know that he didn't try and Parise was just determined to get to free agency? Do we know that he absolutely wasn't coming back if Suter went elsewhere? We don't know any of those things. Losing FAs sucks, but Lou has to try, and we were a frigging game away from a championship that you would have broken up at the deadline. That's the bottom line.
#6 - I agree the core needs to be rebuilt. That comes from the farm. We are in process of that. Obviously losing your captains and favorite players in successive years hurts. Getting Schneider is rebuilding the core. Signing Zajac longterm is rebuilding the core. Signing Henrique is rebuilding the core. Larsson and Gelinas and Merrill and Boucher will be the core in the coming years. Name a 'core' free agent you would have signed/traded for and then you could win this point, but you can't.
#7 - Pandolfo 2.5m thank you isn't absurd. Zajac's contract was widely praised by just about everyone. You can't have your argument both ways. If he offered an absurd contract to Parise, and then he went in the tank with 10 goals a season, you'd be whining here now too. You can't just Monday morning QB EVERYTHING. That said - the Clowe thing was a disaster. I pointed that out already.
#8 - yeah I pointed that out already.
#9 - forgot about this - yes, this was just stupid.
I guess "everyone" are morons then. Or they're finally starting to see the label under Zajac's name has been expired for over two years. Time to toss that Winnipeg kid in the trash.

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11-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  #567
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lol.

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11-06-2013, 02:23 PM
  #568
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Wait are some seriously wanting to toss Zajac in the trash?


Oh and back on-topic, Lou would sooner give Pete his walking papers before he'd get any walking papers himself.

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11-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #569
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Wait are some seriously wanting to toss Zajac in the trash?
No one wants to throw Zajac in the thrash... but his contract IS bad, there's no denying that. On the other hand, the agents negotiating with Lou have all the leverage if the Devils actually want to keep someone cause we're known to let players walk but with the departure of Zach and company, Lou had no other option but to basically give Travis what he was asking for.

With that said, it's a hefty price to pay for a #2/#3 center, cause a #1 he is not.

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11-06-2013, 03:03 PM
  #570
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Quote:
No one wants to throw Zajac in the thrash...
Bruce Wayne does. Just scroll up.

But yeah that contract is bad but Lou had no clue that Travis would turn out to be more of a complimentary player than anything else....

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11-06-2013, 03:18 PM
  #571
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daym did anyone see that urbom rocket last night?

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11-06-2013, 03:21 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by Rella17 View Post
the good old days have been gone for 10 years, Lou needs to go
if things change and this organization falls off the cliff, I mean really ****s the bed, we're living the good old days right now, friendo

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11-06-2013, 03:52 PM
  #573
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Originally Posted by billingtons ghost View Post
I'll refute this point by point.
#1 - The current D could be better constructed, that's true. Although, you seem to think that the whole league is full of Euro skaters and the rinks have gotten huge. Guys like Pronger, Weber, Orpik etc are still useful in this league. You conveniently neglect to say where these guys are supposed to come from. Lou went out and got Tallinder who moves well, along with Volch and they worked fine for a year or two and then things have changed with injuries and age.
#2 - We've drafted great defensemen. We have picked late first round and gotten great value in the Merrill, Severson, Santini picks. You and I disagree on Tedi/Josefson being busts, so until that pans out one way or another, you don't have an argument here - or at least the statement 'we've drafted poorly' is just your opinion and entirely debatable.
#3 - uh, how much of this is on the prospect? or the coach who doesn't play him?
#4 - Ok, if you are GM - which one of those free agents do you get to stay?!? This is a bad argument. Do you move the team to Minn? Russia? Detroit? Anaheim? Do you break the bank for Gomez? Gionta? Clarkson? All good non-signings IMO.
#5 - I think negotiating a contract during the season is stupid and a distraction. You have all off-season for such things. Should he have given Parise an extension? Hell Yes. Do we know that he didn't try and Parise was just determined to get to free agency? Do we know that he absolutely wasn't coming back if Suter went elsewhere? We don't know any of those things. Losing FAs sucks, but Lou has to try, and we were a frigging game away from a championship that you would have broken up at the deadline. That's the bottom line.
#6 - I agree the core needs to be rebuilt. That comes from the farm. We are in process of that. Obviously losing your captains and favorite players in successive years hurts. Getting Schneider is rebuilding the core. Signing Zajac longterm is rebuilding the core. Signing Henrique is rebuilding the core. Larsson and Gelinas and Merrill and Boucher will be the core in the coming years. Name a 'core' free agent you would have signed/traded for and then you could win this point, but you can't.
#7 - Pandolfo 2.5m thank you isn't absurd. Zajac's contract was widely praised by just about everyone. You can't have your argument both ways. If he offered an absurd contract to Parise, and then he went in the tank with 10 goals a season, you'd be whining here now too. You can't just Monday morning QB EVERYTHING. That said - the Clowe thing was a disaster. I pointed that out already.
#8 - yeah I pointed that out already.
#9 - forgot about this - yes, this was just stupid.
Some fans drink the kool-aid morning, noon and night and therefore keep posting the same **** over and over with everyone arguing against the kool-aid drinker. Conclusion: all the arguers must be wrong and the single kool-aid drinker correct. What wrong with this picture?

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11-06-2013, 03:58 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
healthy scratch up until a week ago and still nothing more than an average hockey player

so yes, dime a dozen
So what's Mark Fayne? He gets scratched and plays like crap and he's considered a good second pairing defenseman?

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11-06-2013, 03:59 PM
  #575
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daym did anyone see that urbom rocket last night?
22 year old nhl defenseman with a rocket of a shot and is 6'5. dime a dozen.

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