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CBC Olympic Power Rankings Spezza #21

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Old
10-24-2013, 05:16 PM
  #76
bert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I dunno, but I suspect it's not intentional. You're just not informed about RNH at all.



that's fine, it's your opinion Spezza is better (I disagree but that's fine).

All I'm saying is that ''RNH can't play in his own end'' is not a matter of opinion. Saying RNH is a 0/10 for defense is just wrong.

I'm done with this lol
You think RNH is better right now? Or he has more value as a player due to the 10 year difference?

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10-24-2013, 05:25 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
The knock against Spezza in 2007 was his performance in the finals.

Up to that point, he played incredibly well.



This is what makes Buddy Robinson so interesting to watch.

He moves his feet and he's tall.



Yeah, not everybody.

I was always a big fan of Alfredsson and I thought the idea of trading him was ludicrous at the time.



He did some pretty incredible things. And it's not just the big numbers, it's the little things too.

He came back early from injury in 2006 from cracked ribs thanks to Chara's slapshot wearing special padding because the team was doing poorly, and racked up 4 points in a 7-2 win against Phoenix.

He scores while the entire crowd is chanting his name in the 2007 playoffs, and later scores the goal that puts the team into the first franchise Stanley Cup final with an OT marker against the rival Sabres (a year after the infamous Pominville goal). In that finals, he responds to an Anaheim goal with an immediate short-handed marker on Ryan Getzlaf.

Last minute heroics in the 2013 playoffs?

Like all players, he's had his share of ups and downs. But I'm not going to re-evaluate his contribution to this team over the years even if I disagree vehemently with how he left it.

I think Chris Drury summed up his play best with this simple quote:
So now instead of immediately quoting someone to discuss a point I scroll down and usually you have already covered it, and nailed it better than I could have haha.

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Old
10-24-2013, 05:29 PM
  #78
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Don't get me wrong, Spezza has some pretty impressive stuff in his resume.


Stuff that comes to mind:
-His playoff debut against the Devils in 2003
-His PPG in both the regular season and post-season
-His "angry" game against Winnipeg
-The glorious OT winner on Sheldon Souray
-His performance through most of the 2007 Cup run
-His team leading 84 points in a resurgent performance for an anticipated last place Senators team

Hopefully he can eclipse Alfredsson's accomplishments with a successful charge deep into the SC playoffs at some point.

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Old
10-24-2013, 05:42 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I didn't see too many dangerous plays last night.

Let's see how he does with a full season as the Captain.

I for one, thinks he takes his responsibilities more seriously.

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen I think.
I hope you are right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arglebargle View Post
Do you think Crosby, Malkin and Thornton don't give the puck away like that a lot? Have you ever looked at giveaway stats before? If you look at players with the highest number of giveaways it's like a who's who of the best centres and offensive defencemen in the league. Even Datsyuk is way up there in some years. Giveaways are a natural byproduct of trying to make plays in the offensive zone.

The other reason it's dumb to complain about giveaways is that you assume that it's always the fault of the player who last touched the puck. What if a player has 3 guys trying to check him in the corner and he throws the puck into the slot, but no one's there? What sort of strategy involves not having someone in the slot when there are only 2 guys left to cover the remaining 4 players? The problem with the play is that no one went to the slot/front of the net, not that the puck was passed there.
I don't think you can compare Spezza to Crosby or Datysuk who both are quite well known for playing a very good 200' defensive game. Thornton & Malkin both give the puck away as well but I would take both those guys over Spezza. Spezza just seems to make really stupid give aways at terrible times like in that Phoenix game when there was no teammate behind him, the game is tied at 3, late in the third & he gives Phoenix a break away which luckily Anderson stopped. A veteran & captain shouldn't be making a behind the back blind pass late in a tie game. There are times when it may not be his fault but quite a few are his fault.

I've said it before, Spezza is a hard guy to play with because he is so unpredictable, while that may be a good thing against the opposition it's not that helpful for his linemates. I said in preseason that Ryan would be better off with Turris because Turris like Ryan play more of a north south game while Spezza plays a east west game. I think it's his defensive lapses & poor defensive play that prevent him from playing on Team Canada. I think Greening & Michalek better than anyone else on the team seem to be able to compliment his game & are quick enough & good enough defensively to help him. If he didn't score as much as he does I think more people would complain about it. Karlsson should manage the puck better too, he's had a number of un-Karlsson like moments this yr too but I think it's something that the coaching staff is working with them all on.

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Old
10-24-2013, 09:27 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
lol...and you are not done with this!
lol fine I will keep going you big crybaby

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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
0/10 eh? If it makes you feel any better, someone "who cannot play in his own end", would probably be a 5/10. Pretty close to fail. Where did I write that he is a 0/10 , hmm?

I contend compared to Spezza, he cannot play in his own end, and that is precisely my opinion...as horrifying as that obviously sounds to you. Judging from some others here, and Lars Eller maybe, not as outlandish and crazy as you may think it is.

Don't put words in my mouth, but you can't help yourself.


How was I supposed to know this?

Usually, when someone can't do something, it's because they, you know, can't. I can't fly, does that mean I'm a 5/10 for ability to fly?

In my mind, a player that ''can't play in his own end'' is at least one of the 10% worst defensive forwards in the league. I think that's reasonable. So, 1-Do you really think that's RNH? and 2-How does that warrant a 5/10?

5/10 usually means something along the lines of ''acceptable'', not horrible.


I'm not putting words in your mouth, I used a reasonable interpretation of the word ''can't''. If you think ''can't'' means acceptable, then well that's not my problem.

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Old
10-24-2013, 09:33 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bert View Post
You think RNH is better right now? Or he has more value as a player due to the 10 year difference?
RNH is better defensively now, Spezza better offensively. I'd take the Nuge on Team Canada.

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10-24-2013, 09:58 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
lol fine I will keep going you big crybaby





How was I supposed to know this?

Usually, when someone can't do something, it's because they, you know, can't. I can't fly, does that mean I'm a 5/10 for ability to fly?

In my mind, a player that ''can't play in his own end'' is at least one of the 10% worst defensive forwards in the league. I think that's reasonable. So, 1-Do you really think that's RNH? and 2-How does that warrant a 5/10?

5/10 usually means something along the lines of ''acceptable'', not horrible.


I'm not putting words in your mouth, I used a reasonable interpretation of the word ''can't''. If you think ''can't'' means acceptable, then well that's not my problem.
Big crybaby? You always seem to degenerate these types of threads and in the end you may be right but you look like an ass anyways.

If my kid comes home with a mark of 50%...he can't.

A 5/10 is not what I consider acceptable. You are the one that said I said 0/10 which is why I said you put words in my mouth. I gave you a number just to make you happy but in the end, RNH at 20 should probably bring pompoms to Sochi and not much else. He my be good defensively against a team with no stars but he is not ready to play against all-stars in a game that is not for bragging rights, but a gold medal. Spezza is.

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Old
10-24-2013, 10:07 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
Big crybaby? You always seem to degenerate these types of threads and in the end you may be right but you look like an ass anyways.
lol you had this

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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
If my kid comes home with a mark of 50%...he can't.

A 5/10 is not what I consider acceptable. You are the one that said I said 0/10 which is why I said you put words in my mouth. I gave you a number just to make you happy but in the end, RNH at 20 should probably bring pompoms to Sochi and not much else. He my be good defensively against a team with no stars but he is not ready to play against all-stars in a game that is not for bragging rights, but a gold medal. Spezza is.
Why is Spezza ready? What has he done to shown he is ''ready''? What has Spezza done to shown he can be good defensively against stars?

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Old
10-24-2013, 10:13 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post



?


What a load of crap. Have you ever seen RNH play? If so, you are blind.
Have you ever seen Spezza play? Or are you blinded by your hate for him?

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10-24-2013, 10:13 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
lol you had this



Why is Spezza ready? What has he done to shown he is ''ready''? What has Spezza done to shown he can be good defensively against stars?
I think he is ready because of his overall game. He is not a kid anymore and is in his prime. He is a captain, although many say he has been running the room for years anyways, now everyone sees he is the captain and a guy like Spezza will take it to heart. He knows what the stars moves are because he makes those same plays.

When Spezz played for Hitchcock at the Worlds he raved t Spezzas ability to play a 200' game, he is a very smart and coachable player. He just loves to make plays.

Spezz plays against Crosby regularly. Ovechkin, Tavares, you name it he does and has for the last 6-7 years. He will make the odd mistake trying to create something out of nothing because players of his ilk, and I will include RNH, truly believe that they can make that particular play, much to the scorn of our friend aragorn.

That is what makes them great. I think, though, that he will make less risky plays because he knows better, but you will never take it from his game.

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Old
10-24-2013, 10:15 PM
  #86
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You guys do know that you are arguing with mandy? You do know that right?

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Old
10-24-2013, 10:25 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson View Post
Have you ever seen Spezza play? Or are you blinded by your hate for him?
Check out my posts in the post game thread

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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
I think he is ready because of his overall game. He is not a kid anymore and is in his prime. He is a captain, although many say he has been running the room for years anyways, now everyone sees he is the captain and a guy like Spezza will take it to heart. He knows what the stars moves are because he makes those same plays.
Bob MacKenzie said it last night... just because he is the captain, and ready for that role, it doesn't mean he's good defensively. For the most part, he's been a defensive mess this season.

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When Spezz played for Hitchcock at the Worlds he raved t Spezzas ability to play a 200' game, he is a very smart and coachable player. He just loves to make plays.
I don't think Hitch will be at the Olympics.

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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
Spezz plays against Crosby regularly. Ovechkin, Tavares, you name it he does and has for the last 6-7 years. He will make the odd mistake trying to create something out of nothing because players of his ilk, and I will include RNH, truly believe that they can make that particular play, much to the scorn of our friend aragorn.
Turris went head-to-head with Crosby in the playoffs. Turris was the best Senator and actually did a very good job on Crosby. Crosby had like 1 or 2 even strength points.

Spezza does not go head to head against the stars usually, and when he does, they usually score.

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Originally Posted by coladin View Post
That is what makes them great. I think, though, that he will make less risky plays because he knows better, but you will never take it from his game.
Canada just can't risk it, and giveaways aren't the only concerns. Even in the Detroit game, he looked fine defensively (everyone did), but still sometimes I was shaking my head. Backing checking and odd-man rushes against are definitely concerns. His in zone defense is OK when he's skating and not injured.




The difference between RNH and Spezza is hockey sense, positioning, stick checking. Nuge is great in the neutral zone, and that's one of Spezza's weaknesses. Nuge picks off so many pucks and looks like Datsyuk.

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10-24-2013, 10:30 PM
  #88
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Oh yeah, you're the guy who always wants to trade Spezza, yeah okay, not going to bother.

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10-24-2013, 10:33 PM
  #89
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Oh yeah, you're the guy who always wants to trade Spezza, yeah okay, not going to bother.


Actually bother, they are nice things. I don't hate him, INEC

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10-24-2013, 10:39 PM
  #90
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Oh yeah, you're the guy who always wants to trade Spezza, yeah okay, not going to bother.
ya, just gotta learn to tune em out.

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10-24-2013, 10:42 PM
  #91
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Lots of arguments here seem to be just whitenoise.

RNH is better defensively because __________.
Spezza sucks defensively because __________.

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10-24-2013, 11:00 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Lots of arguments here seem to be just whitenoise.

RNH is better defensively because __________.
Spezza sucks defensively because __________.
?

You could say the same about Bergeron vs Hodgson?



So what constitutes a good argument? We can pull out some good old stats but people will rage even more.

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10-24-2013, 11:01 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
RNH is better defensively now, Spezza better offensively. I'd take the Nuge on Team Canada.
Spezza is definitely a better player right now than Nuge. Nuge obviously still has a lot of potential and could very well go on to have a better career, but right now Nuge is often over powered and at sometimes looks like a boy amongst men (in all fairness lots of Oilers do). It can be argued that Nuge plays a more complete 200 ft game, but he still is not the impact player Spezza is.

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10-24-2013, 11:05 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by DHins View Post
Spezza is definitely a better player right now than Nuge.
Debatable

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Originally Posted by DHins View Post
Nuge obviously still has a lot of potential and could very well go on to have a better career, but right now Nuge is often over powered and at sometimes looks like a boy amongst men (in all fairness lots of Oilers do). It can be argued that Nuge plays a more complete
200 ft game, but he still is not the impact player Spezza is.
And that's his only weakness imo. If he's wasn't so weak and fragile he'd be unstoppable. The skills and hockey sense are truly off the charts.

And that has less of an effect on big ice.

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10-24-2013, 11:09 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Debatable



And that's his only weakness imo. If he's wasn't so weak and fragile he'd be unstoppable. The skills and hockey sense are truly off the charts.

And that has less of an effect on big ice.
Ya true, I think he'll become a force in a few years when he fills out, and hopefully is less injury prone. I don't think Nuge or Spezza should be on team Canada

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10-25-2013, 12:49 AM
  #96
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As a Sens fan, I selfishly don't want him in Socci. If he goes I'll be happy to see one of my favourite players represent my country but I have high hopes for this team in the post season and would love nothing more than our elite injury plagued Captain get some time off before the home stretch. Club over country, sorry. (Only Sens as a club)

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10-25-2013, 01:52 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by DHins View Post
Spezza is definitely a better player right now than Nuge. Nuge obviously still has a lot of potential and could very well go on to have a better career, but right now Nuge is often over powered and at sometimes looks like a boy amongst men (in all fairness lots of Oilers do). It can be argued that Nuge plays a more complete 200 ft game, but he still is not the impact player Spezza is.
RNH is stronger on the boards and in the cycle game than Spezza, I wouldn't say he looks like a boy amongst men.

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Old
10-25-2013, 01:53 AM
  #98
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RNH is stronger on the boards and in the cycle game than Soezza, I wouldn't say he looks like a boy amongst men.
You misspelled spezza. Your opinion is now invalidated.

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10-25-2013, 01:54 AM
  #99
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You misspelled spezza. Your opinion is now invalidated.
Check again

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Old
10-25-2013, 01:55 AM
  #100
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Check again
I see you fixed it.

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