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How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

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12-03-2013, 12:18 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
And that's because AV has a resort kumbaya club in there? I don't buy it.

For me all that matters is the team goes far in the playoffs and ultimately wins the cup. As long as the effort is there in the Spring that's what's going to matter. Gotta get a playoff spot first but I don't think that's going to be a problem.

It's pretty common in the NHL where players dog it during lots of games in the regular season but then go on a tear in the playoffs when they put in maximum effort. I'd rather have that than them burn out in the first half of the year
I think we've just entered the twilight zone with this post.

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12-03-2013, 12:25 PM
  #377
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12-03-2013, 12:25 PM
  #378
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I don't mind AV. I didn't mind Tortorella. I didn't mind Renney. I think I've always been firmly grounded when it comes to the plain as day roster deficiencies this team has always had. But this AV quote really rubbed me the wrong way this morning....

Quote:
On Brassard making a “brainless play,”-”You will need to ask him, he is the one who made the play. So….”
It was brainless -- but to let the reporter ask the question in that way and then throw Brassard to the wolves? Just didn't sit right with me.

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12-03-2013, 12:56 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If that was true Torts wouldn't have had to go on an epic rant about how much we suck every few games.
Seriously - torts would blow his top constantly and the effort didn't change. So maybe just maybe, yelling & screaming & beating down your players night in and night out isn't the most effective solution hmm....

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12-03-2013, 01:07 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I don't mind AV. I didn't mind Tortorella. I didn't mind Renney. I think I've always been firmly grounded when it comes to the plain as day roster deficiencies this team has always had. But this AV quote really rubbed me the wrong way this morning....



It was brainless -- but to let the reporter ask the question in that way and then throw Brassard to the wolves? Just didn't sit right with me.
What was the question? Why did Brassard make that dumb play?

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12-03-2013, 01:15 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Tortorella missed the playoffs his first full season in New York. Only time since the first lockout that happened. His ECF appearence was more of a fluke than a rule of his tenure. Rode the horses into the ground.
Not sure you can call it a fluke when more often than not his team was amongst the last 8 standing. What was the last Rangers coach that had that much success?

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12-03-2013, 01:16 PM
  #382
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If that was true Torts wouldn't have had to go on an epic rant about how much we suck every few games.
There were his methods. And there were his results. Both are fairly black and white.

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12-03-2013, 01:18 PM
  #383
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Not sure you can call it a fluke when more often than not his team was amongst the last 8 standing. What was the last Rangers coach that had that much success?
The guy who came before him?

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12-03-2013, 01:21 PM
  #384
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It was a fluke because 9.5/10 that appearance doesn't happen. Teams with no scoring depth whatsoever and rely heavily on defense don't get that far, ever. They scored literally just enough goals to win each game. They deserved a first round knockout the way they played, in each series.
Then please explain how the team made the second round of the playoffs 3 times out of the 4 times they made the playoffs under Torts.
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For all the talk of Torts getting the most effort out of his club, that effort conveniently took a nosedive in the playoffs each year.
Absolute crock. Sorry, but what a load of BS. It was not effort that caused them to get beat by the Devils or Bruins or much more talented Caps team.
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That run is probably the worst thing that happened to this team, it let Sather believe we're truly one or two pieces from appearing in the SCF.
Yes, given the sterling history of success here, I can see where making it past the first round of the playoffs in 3 out of 5 years can be seen as the worst thing that ever happened. Much worse than the years that they did not make the playoffs at all. Much worse than Renney's team that lost to the Devils. Worst thing ever happened to this franchise. Tell me, how many other similar 5 year stretches do you recall this organization having?

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12-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
There were his methods. And there were his results. Both are fairly black and white.
huh? results Black & white?? couldn't be more grey

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...icle-1.1349616

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=631232

http://nypost.com/2012/05/17/rangers...ets-shut-down/

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12-03-2013, 01:22 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
It's pretty common in the NHL where players dog it during lots of games in the regular season but then go on a tear in the playoffs when they put in maximum effort.
WOW, am I really seeing this? Every single professional coach would disagree with you? There have been some doozy quotes, but this may take the cake.

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12-03-2013, 01:28 PM
  #387
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The guy who came before him?
How many ECF finals did Renney make? Maybe this ranting has me confused, but I do not recall his teams making it past the 1st round 3 times.

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12-03-2013, 01:31 PM
  #388
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huh? results Black & white?? couldn't be more grey
Did he or did he not make it past the first round of the playoffs 3 out of the 4 times that he made the playoffs? Did he or did he not make the ECF with a team that lacked talent? Were not Rangers not considered a very hard team to play against under him? Were they or were they not one of the hardest working teams in the league?

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12-03-2013, 01:37 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Did he or did he not make it past the first round of the playoffs 3 out of the 4 times that he made the playoffs? Did he or did he not make the ECF with a team that lacked talent? Were not Rangers not considered a very hard team to play against under him? Were they or were they not one of the hardest working teams in the league?
Did AV or did AV not take the Rangers to the playoffs and win a couple of rounds? OH WAIT THAT'S RIGHT, he's hasn't even had a chance to GET to the playoffs with the Rangers yet lol

Makes zero sense how people keep clinging to Tortorella. The guy basically wore out the entire team mentally & physically

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12-03-2013, 01:37 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
WOW, am I really seeing this? Every single professional coach would disagree with you? There have been some doozy quotes, but this may take the cake.
It's not professional but it's reality

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12-03-2013, 01:39 PM
  #391
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How many ECF finals did Renney make? Maybe this ranting has me confused, but I do not recall his teams making it past the 1st round 3 times.
I thought you were asking who the last guy had his team as one of the last 8 standing often. Renney's teams got to the 2nd round twice in the 3 seasons he was coach. And Tortorella only got the Rangers into the 2nd round twice.

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12-03-2013, 02:08 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I thought you were asking who the last guy had his team as one of the last 8 standing often. Renney's teams got to the 2nd round twice in the 3 seasons he was coach. And Tortorella only got the Rangers into the 2nd round twice.
When I evaluate the job Renney and Tortorella did, I keep coming back to the same conclusion -- they, at least, got their rosters to where they should've wound up. I don't think any of them really underachieved.

Thats more of a testament to how mediocre the rosters were than how great of a coach Renney or Tortorella were. I expect to feel the same about Vigneault when his time here is done.

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12-03-2013, 02:13 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
When I evaluate the job Renney and Tortorella did, I keep coming back to the same conclusion -- they, at least, got their rosters to where they should've wound up. I don't think any of them really underachieved.

Thats more of a testament to how mediocre the rosters were than how great of a coach Renney or Tortorella were. I expect to feel the same about Vigneault when his time here is done.
Fair enough, although I wouldn't necessarily agree that when the place a roster should generally get is the 2nd round of the playoffs, that roster is mediocre. I would say the rosters have been good, but none of them have been great. Really, though, good or mediocre... that's a "who cares" kind of distinction. Neither are good enough when that's the best you can do in a long GM tenure.

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12-03-2013, 02:24 PM
  #394
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Fair enough, although I wouldn't necessarily agree that when the place a roster should generally get is the 2nd round of the playoffs, that roster is mediocre. I would say the rosters have been good, but none of them have been great. Really, though, good or mediocre... that's a "who cares" kind of distinction. Neither are good enough when that's the best you can do in a long GM tenure.
I think whats bothered me most about Sather is his meddling. There were 2 times in his 14 year tenure where the team looked like it was on the up and up. Immediately after the lockout when Jagr/Lundqvist resurrected the franchise, and then the 2011-2012 season.

What happened after both? Signings and trades that shook the very foundations of those teams. Impatience.

Sather doesnt know where hes going with this franchise. He hasn't since he took over in 2000, any nitwit could stumble through the ebbs and flows he has.

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12-03-2013, 02:25 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
When I evaluate the job Renney and Tortorella did, I keep coming back to the same conclusion -- they, at least, got their rosters to where they should've wound up. I don't think any of them really underachieved.

Thats more of a testament to how mediocre the rosters were than how great of a coach Renney or Tortorella were. I expect to feel the same about Vigneault when his time here is done.
I think both Renney and Torts also got their teams to mirror their personalities. The Renney Rangers were even keel — never got too high, never got too low. A professional team on the ice.

The Torts Rangers were intense and blue collar.

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12-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #396
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I think both Renney and Torts also got their teams to mirror their personalities. The Renney Rangers were even keel — never got too high, never got too low. A professional team on the ice.

The Torts Rangers were intense and blue collar.
AV has been on the job for only 28 games, but I haven't seen the players show the ability to chew gum and stare at the scoreboard at the same time....yet.

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12-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #397
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Torts won 3 playoff series in 5 years. Made it past the 1st round twice.

I'm not sure the Rangers would have gotten out of the 1st round in '12 if they weren't the #1 seed. They had to play 2 elimination games against the 8th seed,1 against the 7th seed and were eliminated by the 6th seed. The team was badly out worked and out coached. And none of those teams were better teams.

The last time the Rangers dominated or even looked like the better team in a playoff series was against the Devils in '08.

Regardless I don't think that is why Torts was fired. Coaches have short lifespans. Especially abrasive ones. And Torts is an abrasive coach. He's an abrasive human being. He was with the Rangers for 5 years. He was with Tampa for 7 and he won a cup there. When you add that to reports surfacing that he was having problems with the teams best player (and most important person in the organization) how much is there to say?

Not every player that is traded is "given up on". Not every coach is fired because the team didn't win the Stanley Cup.

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12-03-2013, 02:38 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think both Renney and Torts also got their teams to mirror their personalities. The Renney Rangers were even keel — never got too high, never got too low. A professional team on the ice.

The Torts Rangers were intense and blue collar.
Yeah that team losing 5 of its top 12 forwards really undid the intense blue collar hockey. I think AV putting a stamp on his team by being anti-torts has lead to what we are seeing today.

A team getting the kind of goaltending the Rangers are shouldn't be a .500 team. If there weren't so many low effort non-physical minutes being played out there.

The compete level on some of these guys is on par with a post 40s man suffering from low T. So many passive indifferent periods of hockey.

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12-03-2013, 03:13 PM
  #399
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Then please explain how the team made the second round of the playoffs 3 times out of the 4 times they made the playoffs under Torts.

Absolute crock. Sorry, but what a load of BS. It was not effort that caused them to get beat by the Devils or Bruins or much more talented Caps team.

Yes, given the sterling history of success here, I can see where making it past the first round of the playoffs in 3 out of 5 years can be seen as the worst thing that ever happened. Much worse than the years that they did not make the playoffs at all. Much worse than Renney's team that lost to the Devils. Worst thing ever happened to this franchise. Tell me, how many other similar 5 year stretches do you recall this organization having?
They made the second round twice under Torts guy. They got by the Sens and Caps because of elite goaltending and McD-Girardi being demigods. Ottawa swarmed all over them the whole series, that series should've been an easy sweep. It went to 7 long and hard games instead. They were inexperienced, awful defensively, and even lost Alfredsson for 3 games. Remember that garbage call on Nick Foligno for goalie interference in game 6? If that's not called Ottawa wins that series in 6.

The Caps were a different story, they were playing as defensive as can be and played the Rangers to a T. But the only wins against the Caps that series that were even good wins were game 1, game 5, and arguably 7. The Caps could've won that series just as easily.

Take away Brassard's absolutely beautiful playoff run, and the goaltending, Caps win that series in 5. The Caps are not a better team than the Rangers.

I'd love to hear the explanation behind the entire Boston series and where the effort was. It wasn't there, except game 1.

Obviously "the worst thing that could happen" was an exaggeration. But it's partially true. If they don't go on that big run (where, reminder, they didn't win anything), Sather doesn't gut the team for Nash. Granted, I do that trade again 10/10, but there was no way in hell adding Nash was taking this team to the finals. Especially with that absolute abortion of a bottom 6.

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12-03-2013, 03:19 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
They made the second round twice under Torts guy. They got by the Sens and Caps because of elite goaltending and McD-Girardi being demigods. Ottawa swarmed all over them the whole series, that series should've been an easy sweep. It went to 7 long and hard games instead. They were inexperienced, awful defensively, and even lost Alfredsson for 3 games. Remember that garbage call on Nick Foligno for goalie interference in game 6? If that's not called Ottawa wins that series in 6.

The Caps were a different story, they were playing as defensive as can be and played the Rangers to a T. But the only wins against the Caps that series that were even good wins were game 1, game 5, and arguably 7. The Caps could've won that series just as easily.

Take away Brassard's absolutely beautiful playoff run, and the goaltending, Caps win that series in 5. The Caps are not a better team than the Rangers.

I'd love to hear the explanation behind the entire Boston series and where the effort was. It wasn't there, except game 1.

Obviously "the worst thing that could happen" was an exaggeration. But it's partially true. If they don't go on that big run (where, reminder, they didn't win anything), Sather doesn't gut the team for Nash. Granted, I do that trade again 10/10, but there was no way in hell adding Nash was taking this team to the finals. Especially with that absolute abortion of a bottom 6.
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