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How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

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12-13-2013, 02:13 PM
  #551
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I see a very flawed team regardless of who is coaching it.

It's been a very flawed team for years. The difference is that it was easier to overlook the serious flaws when you felt the team was busting it's butt.

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12-13-2013, 02:17 PM
  #552
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I see a very flawed team regardless of who is coaching it.

It's been a very flawed team for years. The difference is that it was easier to overlook the serious flaws when you felt the team was busting it's butt.
They tried to transition away from that without actually acquiring the talent needed to do so. In NY it seems every franchise is always 'just a new coach/player or two away' from being contenders. Talk about a fallacy.....

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12-13-2013, 02:23 PM
  #553
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They tried to transition away from that without actually acquiring the talent needed to do so. In NY it seems every franchise is always 'just a new coach/player or two away' from being contenders. Talk about a fallacy.....
The reality is that there master plan failed. Their goal was to have both Nash and Gaborik be the primary goal scorers and have Richards and Stepan setting them up. Sprinkle in some secondary scoring and maybe you have something.

However, once you trade away Gaborik, you're essentially right back to where you were in the first place.

To make matters worse, we've had this weird obsession with Columbus for the past two years and the reality is that they weren't exactly a dynasty to try and draw from.

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12-13-2013, 02:25 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
The reality is that there master plan failed. Their goal was to have both Nash and Gaborik be the primary goal scorers and have Richards and Stepan setting them up. Sprinkle in some secondary scoring and maybe you have something.

However, once you trade away Gaborik, you're essentially right back to where you were in the first place.

To make matters worse, we've had this weird obsession with Columbus for the past two years and the reality is that they weren't exactly a dynasty to try and draw from.
They just needed a change of scenery, cause afterall, if they were in NY they'd win a cup every year

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12-13-2013, 02:54 PM
  #555
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To make matters worse, we've had this weird obsession with Columbus for the past two years and the reality is that they weren't exactly a dynasty to try and draw from.
New year......same results

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12-13-2013, 04:03 PM
  #556
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Fail to plan, plan to fail. What makes it worse is it looks like Tortorella wanted Gaborik gone. Now he's gone, too. Trade the player to please the coach, then fire the coach? Is the problem the coach or the players? Sather alternates scapegoats.

There's no team identity. Tortorella's hard-working, hard-hitting, shot-blocking teams that outworked everyone and relied on Lundqvist to come up big when the cracks showed weren't good enough so Sather brought in a new coach with a new philosophy, but the players don't match. Prust's importance to the team has been overrated recently but least players like him and Mitchell fit in the roles Tortorella put them in. What is Sather doing with players like Pyatt and Pouliot on this team? Or Brassard? They don't score enough, don't play defense enough, don't hit enough. What do they contribute?

Callahan isn't the goal scorer Nash and Gaborik are. Micheletti was getting on Nash last night and he was right. The Rangers needed something from him. 22:51 played, -2 and 0 shots on goal against the Columbus Blue Jackets. A team he should have been revved up to score some goals against. I don't know if Tortorella behind the bench would have been enough to light a fire under Nash. Outshot by Brad Richards 9-0.

A faction of players in the Rangers dressing room probably weren't too upset to see Tortorella fired, but I bet they'd like to see Sather find some goal scorers. Speaking of players who don't miss Tortorella, Richards was supposedly ready to live up to his contract this year with a new coach in town. As of today, he's on pace for 62 points over 82 games, which is an astounding 1.4 points better than last year's pace had it been an 82 game season. So much improvement.

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12-22-2013, 10:11 AM
  #557
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After all this I now have little doubt that the difference between this year and the last few years is the coach. Not that I was a huge Tortorella fan but this is basically the same team and they can't beat ****.

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12-23-2013, 08:47 AM
  #558
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After all this I now have little doubt that the difference between this year and the last few years is the coach. Not that I was a huge Tortorella fan but this is basically the same team and they can't beat ****.
Richards said it best. The team is "too comfortable". Torts made them all uncomfortable and all the players knew that they could be scratched at any moment if they did not play exactly the way that Torts wanted to. The identity and personality that Torts basically willed into the room is now gone as it was far more important for the players to feel good about each other and play in a way that unleashed their creativity.

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12-23-2013, 08:58 AM
  #559
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They weren't winning with Torts anymore. They went as far as they could with him and needed a new voice. They will either need to better acclimate to AV, or we will have either wholescale changeover or another new coach. Torts was not the answer.

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12-23-2013, 09:30 AM
  #560
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They weren't winning with Torts anymore. They went as far as they could with him and needed a new voice. They will either need to better acclimate to AV, or we will have either wholescale changeover or another new coach. Torts was not the answer.
They weren't winning?

We beat Washington in the playoffs and lost to a far superior and tougher Bruins team.

They played hard... period. This team isn't.

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12-23-2013, 09:35 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by lhg39 View Post
They weren't winning with Torts anymore.
As supposed to now?

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12-23-2013, 09:52 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by lhg39 View Post
They weren't winning with Torts anymore. They went as far as they could with him and needed a new voice. They will either need to better acclimate to AV, or we will have either wholescale changeover or another new coach. Torts was not the answer.
There is no answer, especially through a coach. What Tortorella showed you the last 2 seasons is just how far flawed rosters can go. But he just had to go so the fans could be treated to worse results and less accountability for the players

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12-23-2013, 10:48 AM
  #563
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They weren't winning with Torts anymore.
Really? What do you call being one of the final 8 teams standing?
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They went as far as they could with him and needed a new voice.
Frankly a tiring line. Torts, got the most out of a team that was better than the sum of its parts. His teams were short on talent, but not on the compete level. A new voice? No matter how the players felt, they busted their butts. That says something by itself.
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They will either need to better acclimate to AV, or we will have either wholescale changeover or another new coach.
So the Rangers:

1. Get a coach who has established a style and an identity and had a plan
2. Fire him because he purportedly was stifling the creativity of the players.
3. Hire a coach who has a history of teams have underachieving, but creates a fun environment and a creative offensive system
4. Now have to fire above coach and hire a different one. And what will this one bring to the table???
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Torts was not the answer.
Aside from Keenan's aberration in 1994, Torts has had the most success of any Rangers coach since Francis was behind the bench. He established an identity and a personality. He got the maximum amount of effort and success out of a group which was woefully short of high-end talent. Who, pray tell, is the answer?

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12-23-2013, 10:51 AM
  #564
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They weren't winning?

We beat Washington in the playoffs and lost to a far superior and tougher Bruins team.

They played hard... period. This team isn't.
The record at this point under Torts last season was not dramatically different despite having a normal Hank. If Av had a normal Hank this team would have 5 more wins easy. There were large stretches last season where fans would not even watch the games. That team did not play any harder during those stretches.

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12-23-2013, 10:53 AM
  #565
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The record at this point under Torts last season was not dramatically different despite having a normal Hank. If Av had a normal Hank this team would have 5 more wins easy.
Except that Torts basically had no training camp to deal with and did not find a quarter of his core traded away and replaced. But why let those little facts stand in the way.

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12-23-2013, 10:55 AM
  #566
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These players got their coach **** canned over the summer. Does anyone really think they would have had a complete change of heart had Sather told them to suck it up and kept Torts around for another year?

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12-23-2013, 11:00 AM
  #567
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Except that Torts basically had no training camp to deal with and did not find a quarter of his core traded away and replaced. But why let those little facts stand in the way.
If by facts you mean excuses that is fine. Torts was all for the Nash trade. Torts had major input on who was on the team and who was not on the team. No coach had a training camp last season. Torts made the playoffs by backing in from another teams loss during the last game of 1 season and missed the playoffs during the last game of one season.

You think Krieder misses Torts?

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12-23-2013, 11:02 AM
  #568
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These players got their coach **** canned over the summer. Does anyone really think they would have had a complete change of heart had Sather told them to suck it up and kept Torts around for another year?
I think that at worst, they would have continued to have a high compete level. Because those that did not want to play hard, did not play. Period. Judging by the season, that by itself leads to a more competitive team.

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12-23-2013, 11:04 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
The record at this point under Torts last season was not dramatically different despite having a normal Hank. If Av had a normal Hank this team would have 5 more wins easy. There were large stretches last season where fans would not even watch the games. That team did not play any harder during those stretches.
After 37 GP last season, they had 40 pts, this year they have 36 pts in 37 GP.

Not huge of a difference, but the goal differential stands out like a sore thumb. Last year after 37 GP, the Rangers were +5, this year -15. At least they were involved in close games with Tortorella.

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12-23-2013, 11:08 AM
  #570
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If by facts you mean excuses that is fine. Torts was all for the Nash trade.
As I recall, Torts vocally did not want to change the core of the locker room.
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Torts had major input on who was on the team and who was not on the team.
Sure, but not on the Nash trade. And that was the trade that disrupted the apple cart.
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No coach had a training camp last season.
Correct. Which is why comparing the point totals of a team that has had the benefit of one (this year) to one that did not (last year) is not exactly apples to apples.
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Torts made the playoffs by backing in from another teams loss during the last game of 1 season and missed the playoffs during the last game of one season.
THere are now style points? The fact is that Torts has has more success since any Rangers since Francis. The team was a hard working young team under him. And gave a product to be proud off. Not this crap.
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You think Krieder misses Torts?
Do you think Girardi or Stepan do? Seems that Girardi may have been a creation of Tortarella's system. And Stepan played much better under him. So too did Callahan. Yes, Kreider and Zuccarella seem to be better. But much of the rest of the team seems worse.

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12-23-2013, 11:10 AM
  #571
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I think that at worst, they would have continued to have a high compete level. Because those that did not want to play hard, did not play. Period. Judging by the season, that by itself leads to a more competitive team.
I think it's nice to dream that that would be the case, but I just don't see it. Torts held the players accountable and they got him fired. Had he not been fired, I can't for a second begin to think that they would suddenly ramp the compete level back up for a new season under a guy they were sick of.

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12-23-2013, 11:11 AM
  #572
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After 37 GP last season, they had 40 pts, this year they have 36 pts in 37 GP.

Not huge of a difference, but the goal differential stands out like a sore thumb. Last year after 37 GP, the Rangers were +5, this year -15. At least they were involved in close games with Tortorella.
4 points over 37 games is not what I would look at as a tremendous difference especially since we are in the middle of a bad streak.

If Lundy was a normal Lundy (like all his previous seasons in the NHL) do you think you the record this season would be the same as it is today?

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12-23-2013, 11:16 AM
  #573
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
You think Krieder misses Torts?
I'm sure Callahan, Girardi and Staal miss him, considering how abysmal they're playing this year.

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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
4 points over 37 games is not what I would look at as a tremendous difference especially since we are in the middle of a bad streak.

If Lundy was a normal Lundy (like all his previous seasons in the NHL) do you think you the record this season would be the same as it is today?
They'd likely still have lesser point totals considering the way the team has played in front of him defensively. Only so much a goaltender can do.

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12-23-2013, 11:20 AM
  #574
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As I recall, Torts vocally did not want to change the core of the locker room.

Sure, but not on the Nash trade. And that was the trade that disrupted the apple cart.

Correct. Which is why comparing the point totals of a team that has had the benefit of one (this year) to one that did not (last year) is not exactly apples to apples.

THere are now style points? The fact is that Torts has has more success since any Rangers since Francis. The team was a hard working young team under him. And gave a product to be proud off. Not this crap.

Do you think Girardi or Stepan do? Seems that Girardi may have been a creation of Tortarella's system. And Stepan played much better under him. So too did Callahan. Yes, Kreider and Zuccarella seem to be better. But much of the rest of the team seems worse.
You have a selective memory or you do not read all the articles. Torts was absolutely for the Nash trade. He tried to play both sides of the fence later claiming he did not want the team broken up but before the season he said the Nash trade is the kind of trade that you have to make. Torts had a large say as to who was on the team. He wanted Duby run out of town.

More success than anyone since Francis? Are you Torts? His record was almost identical to Tom Renney. You may have missed the Cup in 1994 and the Finals in 1979.

Girardi was a solid dman before Torts was here. People knew that guys like Cally and Girardi were due for a decline be it due to injuries or age. Stepan had a career year last season in part due to Nash being a great goal scorer. Steps numbers this season are around the same as his career average. McD is playing better than ever. The team was not a hard working team last season. Go look back at all the losing streaks where people were saying we should tank last season. The games were unwatchable. Last season we were on the outside looking in before we brought back Zooks and traded for Brass/Clowe.

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12-23-2013, 11:26 AM
  #575
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I think it's nice to dream that that would be the case, but I just don't see it. Torts held the players accountable and they got him fired. Had he not been fired, I can't for a second begin to think that they would suddenly ramp the compete level back up for a new season under a guy they were sick of.
I get where you are seeing this from. But I tend to believe that they would have exhibited the standard compete level that they have shown under him. Unfortunately, we do not get the chance to find out who would have been right.

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