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Blaming our goaltenders or blaming the coach, whats new?

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Old
10-23-2013, 06:54 AM
  #26
DAChampion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
Every team in the league deals with the same thing. We just don't have the depth to keep rolling after a few injuries.
I'm pretty sure that we have more injuries than most teams in the league.

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Old
10-23-2013, 07:02 AM
  #27
PhysicX
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'm pretty sure that we have more injuries than most teams in the league.
We've got the same amount of injuries as does Edmonton, and tied for most in the league.

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Old
10-23-2013, 07:08 AM
  #28
ClasslessGuy
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Therien is getting a ton of hate on this board. End of the story.

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Old
10-23-2013, 07:45 AM
  #29
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Every year the fans blame the coach while the same overprotected garbage players remains with the team....

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:31 AM
  #30
LeMAD
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Therien is the new Mario Tremblay.

Jokes aside, this board is in a terrible state right now. Insults fly all over the place, people are happy when a player they don't like gets injured, etc, etc.

It's always been a problem on hfboards, but on our forum in particular right now, it's the worst I've ever seen.

edit: thanks for the great exemple

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Originally Posted by couris View Post
Every year the fans blame the coach while the same overprotected garbage players remains with the team....

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:42 AM
  #31
otto bond
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I say Goaltender is the least of the problem(s).
Coaching is debatable but I like MT.
Words on the GM are coming up...event in this thread.

The real question are:
Will the goaltender hold the fort over the course of the season?
Will the coach get help from the GM?

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:43 AM
  #32
Treb
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
I just have a hard time believing another coach could do better with a such roster.. Its so easy to blame a coach or a goaltender when things dont work well.. Coaches have to deal with a ton of factors we dont even know.. And its strange that those points you summarize are the same we hear again and over again no matter who is behind the bench.. thats like a broken record to me.
Summary of this board's complaints against him:
Swarm system is terrible.
Other coach would use other systems
Bad bench management
Same thing here
Double-standards on who he holds accountable
Other coach may actually have the balls to bench DD/Bouillon for a game
Terrible PK
We were good before he arrived. Gill wasn't the only reason we were good.
Unable to motivate players for 60 minutes
No explanation needed
Doesn't adjust in game
See any coach that is succesful

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:55 AM
  #33
couris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Summary of this board's complaints against him:
Swarm system is terrible.
Other coach would use other systems
Bad bench management
Same thing here
Double-standards on who he holds accountable
Other coach may actually have the balls to bench DD/Bouillon for a game
Terrible PK
We were good before he arrived. Gill wasn't the only reason we were good.
Unable to motivate players for 60 minutes
No explanation needed
Doesn't adjust in game
See any coach that is succesful
Bench Bouillon? He is one of our best dman. DD just signed a contract of 3.5M for 4 years....

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:56 AM
  #34
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The Canadiens are well coached but apparently Gallant is in charge of that and Therrien is more in charge of managing the lines/minutes. He has shown some promise so far this year as far as improving in that area is concerned.

As for Price, any time a goalie lets in a bunch of weak goals he's bound to be criticized.

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Old
10-23-2013, 10:07 AM
  #35
Redux91
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it basically boils down to

we have some of the smartest fans in the world

and we have some of the most dumbest fans in the world

thats simply what happens when you have THE largest fan base in the NHL (most sport teams too)

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Old
10-23-2013, 03:41 PM
  #36
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People also tend to put all/most of the blame on the 4th line and bottom pairing defenceman. If only we had a real 4th line is a common refrain.

At the end of day Therrien isn't getting the job done. Too many players are playing below what is expected of them.

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Old
10-23-2013, 04:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toshio View Post
Sitting a struggling player happens all the time. Brad Richards, Alex Semin, Okposo, Myers, Subban, Eller, and I think Boston scratched Lucic for one game last year too. Sitting in the pressbox can also be a positive thing. Helps you figure out what you need to work on. It also sends a message that no job is safe.
You can send a message like this when you have a relatively healthy line-up, whats the point to sit Desharnais or Bouillon right now with a bunch of AHLers in the line-up, Therrien would lose credibility in the locker room.. Dont worry, if Desharnais keeps struggling when the team badly needs him to step up his game, he will watch games from the pressbox when the injured guys come back, for now, this is not pertinent..


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Old
10-23-2013, 05:43 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Why do you think MacLean won the Jack Adams? How was his team better than ours after losing Spezza, Karlsson, Cowen, Michalek..?

Therrien is not getting the best out of our guys. Outside the EGG line and PK-Markov-Price, who else is playing well?? But I'm guessing you think it's all on the players? It's their fault? Well then why is Therrien there?

He's done very little. He had the whole training camp to come up with different line combinations but instead used it to evaluate a bunch of guys that were not going to make our lineup anyways.
He's had a double standard as well, Eller was scratched after one game last year. It's not like Eller deserved it either, the whole team looked like crap, but he was singled out. This year, DD who's been struggling since last year and only has one tiny assist to his name, still gets to play around 15min and PP time.
He still barely uses his Norris winner on the PK. He uses Bouillon as much as him at times. He gives Markov more responsibilities.

Last year, he was lucky to be in a short season. We likely would have had a downward spiral possibly finishing outside the POs. It's the same reason why we seem to be struggling thus far in the later periods. He's bad at in game adjustments. He always was.

You're right, he's not the reason why we struggle sometimes. You can't pin everything on him, you can't pin everything on the GM either, or the goalie, or the defense, or the offense. That's why it's called a team sport, everybody is in it together.
But I disagree that he's getting the best out of our team, I don't agree with his player management nor am I a fan of his tactics.
No doubt that Maclean did a very great job with his team last year, that was a team on mission playing extremmely tight and structured as a group, they lost some key players but their level of intensity and discipline was top notch every nights, thats why they found a way to make the playoffs.. But if you look at their blueline without Karlsson, thats still way better than the one we have right now.. Gonchar, Wiercioch 6"5 206 lbs, Phillips 6"3 220 lbs, Marc Methot 6"3 230 lbs, Gryba 6"4 225lbs.. Also, when you have a leader like Alfie, the heart and soul of the franchise, who is possibly playing his last season in the NHL, thats a huge load of motivation for a group..

As for Subban, Ive no prob to not see him on the PK at all, the last thing you want is to see Subban block a shot and get injured, without Subban our blueline is the worst in the NHL and couldnt surivive longer..


Last edited by NewHabsEra*: 10-23-2013 at 06:41 PM.
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Old
10-23-2013, 05:45 PM
  #39
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I'm expecting MB to extend Briere's contract 4 more years so he could lock in all the smurfs and sleep easy at night not worrying about not having any.

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Old
10-23-2013, 05:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ClasslessGuy View Post
Therien is getting a ton of hate on this board. End of the story.
I'm more upset with management than I am the coach. And of course, I'm upset with any player under 5'10" who doesn't score more than 20 goals. What good are they?

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Old
10-23-2013, 05:52 PM
  #41
Bask
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
it basically boils down to

we have some of the smartest fans in the world

and we have some of the most dumbest fans in the world

thats simply what happens when you have THE largest fan base in the NHL (most sport teams too)
added to the fact that this is the internet, and on the internet everyone's opinions are objective facts! It's also way easier to say something witty instead of actually debating.

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Old
10-23-2013, 07:47 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Still, Therrien is getting ton of hate and Ive yet to read some intelligent comments on why he is that bad..
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
I just have a hard time believing another coach could do better with a such roster.. Its so easy to blame a coach or a goaltender when things dont work well.. Coaches have to deal with a ton of factors we dont even know.. And its strange that those points you summarize are the same we hear again and over again no matter who is behind the bench.. thats like a broken record to me.
Really?

Take the game vs the Preds for example. 1 of the keys of every teams facing the Habs is to contain/stop the EGG line. Thats common sense. Nobody will dispute that. Its the only line producing anything offensively as Plek has nobody to plays with him, so its easy to key on the kids line.

What did the Preds had to contain/stop the EGG line? Only 2 players (Weber and Jones). Trotz figured he'd make sure they were on the ice every times the EGG line was on.

As you know, that game was in Mtl. Therrien had the last change.

My question is simple: why was he so utterly outcoached in his own building by someone who doesnt have any options besides 1 D pairing? Please note again that the game was in Mtl, meaning MT had last line change.

During that game, did you saw, at any point, MT call the EGG line to the bench and send in the 4th line vs Weber/Jones? No, it didnt happened once. A very common strategy to free up your guys (in that case EGG line) from the opposing coach matching up vs them is to call them to the bench, send 3rd-4th liners, get some offensive pressure going (cycle), then when Weber/Jones comes off, you comeback with the EGG line. This happened 0 time in that game. None.

This is a blatant no in-game adjustment. Julien has outcoached many coaches in the past, especially with his use of Chara and Bergeron. Recall how the previous coach (Martin, not Randy) reacted when he saw Chara jumping on the ice to match the Habs 1st line?

MT sucks at line matching. At home, he has 0 excuse. It was apparent last year and its very apparent this year. MacLean made MT look bad last playoffs with line changes.

When was the last time MT used his TO wisely? Do you recall him calling a TO to keep the EGG line + Markov/Subban on the ice on the PP when he needs a goal late? What is this need for a team to end the game with that TO? Why not use it to give you better odds at getting that big goal that could seal it midway thru the game.

MT easily couldve used that TO in the 2nd last night. Everyone was noticing what was happening. MT did nothing. He sat there, idle, doing angry faces after angry faces.

As far as the thread title, I wonder where the Habs would be without Price.


Last edited by Camio: 10-23-2013 at 07:59 PM.
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Old
10-23-2013, 08:24 PM
  #43
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
No doubt that Maclean did a very great job with his team last year, that was a team on mission playing extremmely tight and structured as a group, they lost some key players but their level of intensity and discipline was top notch every nights, thats why they found a way to make the playoffs.. But if you look at their blueline without Karlsson, thats still way better than the one we have right now.. Gonchar, Wiercioch 6"5 206 lbs, Phillips 6"3 220 lbs, Marc Methot 6"3 230 lbs, Gryba 6"4 225lbs.. Also, when you have a leader like Alfie, the heart and soul of the franchise, who is possibly playing his last season in the NHL, thats a huge load of motivation for a group..

As for Subban, Ive no prob to not see him on the PK at all, the last thing you want is to see Subban block a shot and get injured, without Subban our blueline is the worst in the NHL and couldnt surivive longer..
I don't think their blueline was better than ours. We have a guy that can play half the game, while still being effective defensively and productive, but Therrien rather use him around 24-25min and put the older guy that will tire out later on there instead. What if Markov breaks his bone blocking a shot on the PK? We can't afford to lose him or PK. No doubt PK is more valuable, but Markov still holds a very key role for us. Losing him would be very bad as well, yet MT has no issues given him PK time.
We're just not using our guys smart enough, and Therrien wasted camp by not trying different line combinations that may occur during the season due to injury (and it appears like it certainly would have come in handy so far this year).


In any event, the point stands, it's not because you suffer injuries that you can't adapt. That's what good coaches do. That's what MacLean did last year. Heck, that's what Martin did both seasons he fully coached here. Not sure if you remember but at some point in his first year here we had to dress guys like Wyman, Trotter, Belle, Carle, Stewart, Leach, Maxwell, Chipchura, DD and White (both AHL at the time)..Sometimes a bunch of them played on the same night. If I recall correctly it went as high as having 7 AHL guys dressed during the same game.
Yet Martin still made us get to the POs. Yes, he needed the excellent play of Halak, just like MacLean needed Anderson. Still, they found a way.

Therrien has trouble with finding ways and adapting.

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:30 PM
  #44
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Not sure what your point is yet again. We blamed Gauthier.....we blamed Gainey....we blamed our goalies....we blame Therrien....we blamed EVERYBODY not names EGG line and Subban and Markov. So everybody gets their share of blame.

Thing is, in the end, in hockey, when somebody loses their jobs....who is it? All the players? Or the coach and/or the GM? Surely, I am amongst the ones who keep saying how that D sucks EVEN if you add Emelin. Well it wouldn't suck as much as it would from medicore to good. But that's still not a contending D. We have no support offensively except the Egg line and Pacioretty. Yet, our goalie is great this year. But the rest DO suck. For now. It can change. I don't see it as we have tons of injuries and not a lot of depth. And Therrien won't be better. But we have who we have in management. On one hand you have a 2nd year rookie in Bergevin even if he's surrounded by experience, being Dudley and Carrière (not exempt from their share of mistakes themselves...), and a guy who, if it wasn't for the Habs, would have never got another shot at coaching. As soon as he's out of Montreal, he's out of the game. So it can't mean that he's great at coaching.

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:36 PM
  #45
Aspirine
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My only problem with MT is his undying love for DD and Bouillon. Grow some balls and scratch them.. (no pun).
That was actually hilarious dude. GJ!

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Old
10-23-2013, 08:37 PM
  #46
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It's always the coach. Each and every coach for the last 7-8 years (except Cunneyworth) had the elements to win the cup but ****ed up in ways that most posters on this board would've avoided.

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Old
10-23-2013, 09:03 PM
  #47
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I don't think their blueline was better than ours. We have a guy that can play half the game, while still being effective defensively and productive, but Therrien rather use him around 24-25min and put the older guy that will tire out later on there instead. What if Markov breaks his bone blocking a shot on the PK? We can't afford to lose him or PK. No doubt PK is more valuable, but Markov still holds a very key role for us. Losing him would be very bad as well, yet MT has no issues given him PK time.
We're just not using our guys smart enough, and Therrien wasted camp by not trying different line combinations that may occur during the season due to injury (and it appears like it certainly would have come in handy so far this year).


In any event, the point stands, it's not because you suffer injuries that you can't adapt. That's what good coaches do. That's what MacLean did last year. Heck, that's what Martin did both seasons he fully coached here. Not sure if you remember but at some point in his first year here we had to dress guys like Wyman, Trotter, Belle, Carle, Stewart, Leach, Maxwell, Chipchura, DD and White (both AHL at the time)..Sometimes a bunch of them played on the same night. If I recall correctly it went as high as having 7 AHL guys dressed during the same game.
Yet Martin still made us get to the POs. Yes, he needed the excellent play of Halak, just like MacLean needed Anderson. Still, they found a way.

Therrien has trouble with finding ways and adapting.
Gorges Diaz Bouillon couldnt crack the Sens' blueline..

You can adapt when you have depth in your system, when you have none, thats another story... Habs' depth is pretty fragile, everybody knows it.. When Blunden is your best option from the farm, you know you are in trouble..


Last edited by NewHabsEra*: 10-23-2013 at 09:23 PM.
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10-23-2013, 09:08 PM
  #48
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- Terrible PK for the past couple of seasons (that's coaching).
- Diaz on the PK ahead of PK?
- Gointa on the power play.
- Briere (before injury), Desharnais and Bouillon not in the pressbox. Just because Bergeron F'd up and signed/extended these clowns, doesn't mean you have to play them. If you want to win, they should be in the pressbox!

Beaulieu and Tinordi haven't been world beaters, but they don't get the same chance that Bouillon and Diaz get. Play them the same minutes, I'm sure you'll get more out of the youngsters than Diaz or Cube. You can't get any worse.

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Old
10-23-2013, 09:12 PM
  #49
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I have problems with Therrien's breakout and his Bouillon lovefest. Our penalty kill is ****ing awful and our PP is clunky. These are things you can pin on the coach.

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10-23-2013, 10:00 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
I have problems with Therrien's breakout and his Bouillon lovefest. Our penalty kill is ****ing awful and our PP is clunky. These are things you can pin on the coach.
Except it's typically not the head coach responsibility.

I think Therrien has done a decent job from a wins and losses perspective.

The only thing that is wearing me thin is the very same thing that got him fired in Pittsburgh - he's not a good handler of players. He awkward in his interventions - tries to protect his team by going after MacLean but get's completely owned in the exchange. Then sometimes when he needs to protect his players - like Eller last night - he throws him under the bus. Don't think these things don't get noticed by the players.

Add to that the all to tangible display of double standards. His protection of Gionta and Pleks and Markov while never going out of his way to praise PK, Price and now Eller is terrible for team unity.

Starting to smell like Pittsburgh again.

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