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Coots: Sean Couturier

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Old
12-01-2013, 05:21 PM
  #651
LegionOfDoom91
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
that is how dominate he was. only avg 10 min toi and 6 of those minutes were short-handed (sarcasm)
I'm guessing he meant just the first year where he put up 31 points but he still probably saw a good amount of ice time considering he was the #2 overall pick in his QMJHL draft year & Drummondville isn't exactly a powerhouse in the Q.

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12-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #652
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http://thehockeywriters.com/putting-...fense-context/

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12-02-2013, 03:28 AM
  #653
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Now that Couts is playing so well, I think it's safe to say that he could land us Cam Janssen in a trade - which would be fantastic. This guy's got two more goals than Raffl!

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12-02-2013, 08:08 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I don't see a reason to shuffle the lines right now--at least not the Downie-Coots-Read line. Who cares if it is technically our 3rd line--Couturier is getting a ton of minutes and has solid linemates. If you stick Couturier with Giroux, then you're either giving up the match-up game, or forcing Giroux to play against the other team's top-line.
Yeah. I loathe the idea.

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12-02-2013, 09:14 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
I don't see a reason to shuffle the lines right now--at least not the Downie-Coots-Read line. Who cares if it is technically our 3rd line--Couturier is getting a ton of minutes and has solid linemates. If you stick Couturier with Giroux, then you're either giving up the match-up game, or forcing Giroux to play against the other team's top-line.
This is the one thing I might try.

Hartnell-Giroux-Lecavalier
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek

The top 6 aren't getting it done offensively at ES and Vinny is struggling at faceoffs so BSchenn playing center shouldn't hurt in that respect. The third line should be left as it is.

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12-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #656
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Couturier has been on ice for the most even strength goals for of any Flyer. (Downie has more, but that is with Colorado as well.)

Has the best GFON/60 at Even strength.

Has the best GAON/60 at Even strength.

He also has the best Corsi of any of our PP guys.

And I dont even need to list any PK stats... he is far and away the best.

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12-04-2013, 11:36 AM
  #657
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His rookie year I predicted he would soon be as important as Giroux. Are we there yet?

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12-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #658
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Well its nice to see one of the players actually got better from last year. 98% of them got worse

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12-04-2013, 11:54 AM
  #659
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For some of you advanced stat guys...how is GFON/60 and GAON/60 (especially at even strength) any better an indicator than +/- is when it comes to stats? I'm not saying it isn't, but it seems like GFON/60 and GAON/60 just seems like an average of +/-, which people always talk about as being worthless. Don't these stats show the same thing, but broken down as an average rather than a total stat? Definitely possible I am missing something but that is what it seems like.

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12-04-2013, 11:57 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
His rookie year I predicted he would soon be as important as Giroux. Are we there yet?
It's worth the conversation with Giroux faltering.

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12-04-2013, 12:00 PM
  #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
For some of you advanced stat guys...how is GFON/60 and GAON/60 (especially at even strength) any better an indicator than +/- is when it comes to stats? I'm not saying it isn't, but it seems like GFON/60 and GAON/60 just seems like an average of +/-, which people always talk about as being worthless. Don't these stats show the same thing, but broken down as an average rather than a total stat? Definitely possible I am missing something but that is what it seems like.
Anyone who says +/- is worthless is just wrong IMO. It's definitely not a good way to compare players on different teams/different positions/etc. but it's certainly not worthless.

Context is important.

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12-04-2013, 12:02 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Anyone who says +/- is worthless is just wrong IMO. It's definitely not a good way to compare players on different teams/different positions/etc. but it's certainly not worthless.

Context is important.
That doesn't really answer my question...

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12-04-2013, 12:03 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That doesn't really answer my question...
My bad I was just interjecting. Like you said, it's an average. Gives a better picture than just overall.

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12-04-2013, 12:04 PM
  #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
For some of you advanced stat guys...how is GFON/60 and GAON/60 (especially at even strength) any better an indicator than +/- is when it comes to stats? I'm not saying it isn't, but it seems like GFON/60 and GAON/60 just seems like an average of +/-, which people always talk about as being worthless. Don't these stats show the same thing, but broken down as an average rather than a total stat? Definitely possible I am missing something but that is what it seems like.
Yeh, it is effectively how many goals are scored when you are on ice per 60, but is not the same as +/- as it only takes into account 1 game state, accounts per 60 instead of overall... which are two big +/- criticisms it does away with.

Still it is not perfect, but it usually correlates pretty well with Corsi as well. It takes some of the bad away (probably one of biggest criticisms... multiple game states used) from +/- and levels the field while doing so. You can also directly look at how the +/- was built, ie see if they had loads against but scored more, or simply were not scored on but scored few as well.

I don't like it on the PK though as the sample size is minuscule (so one GA will skew it absurdly...) wheras over 82 games at 5v5 a team lets up ~1900 shots (~23 a game, 28-29 per 60) so top three line forwards are facing ~550 shots against a year, so one or two fluky/bad goals are not going to skew it as much.

The larger sample on 5v5 make it pretty legit in my eyes as an indicator of defensive/two way prowess especially, though ofc there are other factors such as goalie sv%, other players on ice etc that can ofc affect it... for example if Couturier was playing with his first year line mates there would be a difference, or if his minutes were harder or easier. (though he was still positive then.)

The best indicator though IMO is to look at a combination of QoC, zone starts, QoT, Corsi, GF and GA/60, as well as TOI being a qualifier for these... harder to interpret, but if guys are consistently positive or negative in the right statistics, either all or most, I reckon it is a pretty great indicator of their play.


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12-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
For some of you advanced stat guys...how is GFON/60 and GAON/60 (especially at even strength) any better an indicator than +/- is when it comes to stats? I'm not saying it isn't, but it seems like GFON/60 and GAON/60 just seems like an average of +/-, which people always talk about as being worthless. Don't these stats show the same thing, but broken down as an average rather than a total stat? Definitely possible I am missing something but that is what it seems like.
I think it's just a more precise look at the stats. A great offensive player can have a great +/- rating despite being atrocious defensively, as long as their offense just overwhelms their defensive downfalls. GFON/60 and GAON/60 separates the two. It is a lot closer than people would like to admit though.

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12-04-2013, 12:58 PM
  #666
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Some of the more basic states out there are very useful like Goals, Team Goal Differential, Points, Save Percentage, etc. but some of them are just useless for the most part such as Wins (for a goalie), +/-, or even GAA for me.

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12-04-2013, 01:31 PM
  #667
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If +/- is useless then I guess it's just a coincidence that Couturier is +7 and Simmonds in -9.

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12-04-2013, 01:53 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
If +/- is useless then I guess it's just a coincidence that Couturier is +7 and Simmonds in -9.
I hate when someone picks one example as representative of everything or ignores carefully chosen words of mine.

I'm guessing you missed where I said "the most part" immediately after.

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12-04-2013, 02:16 PM
  #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
For some of you advanced stat guys...how is GFON/60 and GAON/60 (especially at even strength) any better an indicator than +/- is when it comes to stats? I'm not saying it isn't, but it seems like GFON/60 and GAON/60 just seems like an average of +/-, which people always talk about as being worthless. Don't these stats show the same thing, but broken down as an average rather than a total stat? Definitely possible I am missing something but that is what it seems like.
I like +/- when looking at how a player is on his team, but not as a league stat. The best defensive player on the worst team in the NHL will most likely have a lower +/- than a bad defensive player on a great team. On the other hand, if you look at Couturier's +/- in relation to other players on his team, thats where it makes more sense. When you get more into it, when you combine those factors with more advanced stats like the players linemates and who they match up against, it paints even more of the picture but I don't get that deep into it.

I think GF and GA stats work to show what kind of player someone is. 2 guys can have a +10 rating but one could be crazy good defensively while the other is an elite offensive player. If a guy is on the ice for 100 GF and 90GA and another is on the ice for 60 GF and 50GA, it tells you a lot more about a player than +/- can.

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12-04-2013, 09:41 PM
  #670
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My God. During games like this I want to handcuff Sens and Jets fans to a chair and make them watch with their eyelids taped open. Schiefele and Zibenajad can go pound sand.

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12-04-2013, 09:45 PM
  #671
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10 in last 9 games.

Probably the best Flyer on the ice for half the last ~20 games.

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12-04-2013, 09:46 PM
  #672
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4th line center. Can't believe we used a 1st rounder on him

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12-04-2013, 09:51 PM
  #673
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So if Couturier stays hot for a little while longer and finishes with 50+ points, how much Selke attention does he get?

He's nothing short of incredible right now.

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12-04-2013, 09:51 PM
  #674
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God I hope that's enough to make him untouchable on these boards.

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12-04-2013, 09:51 PM
  #675
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Pierre just asked who Coots looks up to, and he said Bergeron and J. Staal. Pierre said back , "Good, I think you're gonna be just like Bergeron.

This kid is a special player, people. Eff the haters.

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