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FA Signings, Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII: "The makeup has to be jigged"

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Old
10-27-2013, 11:56 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by OILSLICK94 View Post
Love to get a player like Ott, but keep dreaming if you think a career AHLer and a walk on D from the KHL gets you Ott. Easily cost us a Marincin Gernart Musil Fedun basically a top prospect
Fair enough and I agree, but I think Arco has shown more to be labelled a career AHLer at this point...

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10-27-2013, 11:57 PM
  #427
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Isn't he one of those Twitter "insiders" with no connections?
Yup. There is a reason his twitter name gets ***d out by the HF filter.

Known crap account

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10-28-2013, 12:07 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Sabres fan here. I know it is a long way off but I was hoping to get your thoughts. It seems like besides D and G which is a seperate conversation you guys need more quantity as compared to quality right now. Assuming you have a pick in the 4-9 range would you consider something along these lines. This is rough so I am really asking more about a philosophy vs specific pieces. A few thoughts.

Option #1

To EDM:
2014 NYI pick (16-24ish)
2014 2nd rd BUF pick (33-40ish)
2014 2nd rd LA pick (50's ish

To Buf:
2014 EDM pick (4-9ish)


Option #2

To EDM:
Ennis/Stafford (youngish 2/3 winger)
McNabb/McCabe/Ruhwedel (solid 4-6 young D)
2014 2nd rd Pick


To Buf:
one of the big 4 (who is another discussion)
I'd personally have no interest in any of those. Why would we want to move down picks? we wouldn't.

As for Ennis/Stafford, meh.. we have those. McNabb/McCabe/Ruhwedel? Meh, we have those too. 2nd round pick? Doesn't help the roster one bit.

I'd be interested in a Ryan Miller, a Steve Ott, or a Marcus Foligno, but thats about it, really. Those are pieces we need. Pieces that make us a better team. Get us those, and we can talk about a Yakupov/Eberle/RNH/Hall.

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10-28-2013, 12:10 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
This is beyond awful. The Oilers need quality, not quantity.
Seriously? You guys have a top notch first line locked up between Yak, Nuge, Hall, and Eberle. Perron is looking good as supporting cast as well. Hemsky has worn out his welcome but most teams have a guy like that. Arcobello is probably not the answer for you either. From watching games it always seems that the Oil fall down on the 2nd line/3rd line. Am I wrong? Gamecentre only shows me so much but I make a point to watch at least one game a week.

Same with D. Smid and Schultz are OK. Ferrence probably should not get the minutes he does but you have to do what you have to do.

It seems to me the problem is not with the high end talent but rather a lack of "glue guys" who play a two way game, plop in 20-30 a year, support your D, and keep the other team honest. That and goal but I was making a point to stay away from the Miller to Edmonton talk.

Not trying to be hostile if I am wrong please explain it to be as I might be seeing something wrong.


Last edited by kenfury: 10-28-2013 at 12:11 AM. Reason: Sorry, I came off a bit strong.
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10-28-2013, 12:11 AM
  #430
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I'd personally have no interest in any of those. Why would we want to move down picks? we wouldn't.

As for Ennis/Stafford, meh.. we have those. McNabb/McCabe/Ruhwedel? Meh, we have those too. 2nd round pick? Doesn't help the roster one bit.

I'd be interested in a Ryan Miller, a Steve Ott, or a Marcus Foligno, but thats about it, really. Those are pieces we need. Pieces that make us a better team. Get us those, and we can talk about a Yakupov/Eberle/RNH/Hall.
Sorry but the bolded will never ever ever ever be talked about. Not a chance he even gets mentioned in trade talks unless another #1 C is coming back

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10-28-2013, 12:11 AM
  #431
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Eh, don't worry too much about it, dude...

This fanbase flipflops on what we need on a game by game basis. I would like Ehrhoff if he was available. But I suck at trade proposals so I don't really try.

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10-28-2013, 12:13 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Yup. There is a reason his twitter name gets ***d out by the HF filter.

Known crap account
but it is fun when you bust him on trades he says he broke with the real source of where he got in the info-- a few times he claimed to break trades that had been up on HF for 20 minutes

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10-28-2013, 12:14 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Eh, don't worry too much about it, dude...

This fanbase flipflops on what we need on a game by game basis. I would like Ehrhoff if he was available. But I suck at trade proposals so I don't really try.
The problem with the Hoff is recapture risk. If Buffalo traded him and he retired it would be a 10Mil+ cap hell. He is probably going to be a Sabre for life one way or another.

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10-28-2013, 12:15 AM
  #434
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but it is fun when you bust him on trades he says he broke with the real source of where he got in the info-- a few times he claimed to break trades that had been up on HF for 20 minutes
Still trying to figure out why Jonathan Quick follows him on twitter

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10-28-2013, 12:17 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
The problem with the Hoff is recapture risk. If Buffalo traded him and he retired it would be a 10Mil+ cap hell. He is probably going to be a Sabre for life one way or another.
I agree, that contract is pretty untradable. Unfortunately we need an upgrade in D and there aren't many options available. You might have to swallow a risky contract.

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10-28-2013, 12:19 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Still trying to figure out why Jonathan Quick follows him on twitter
Probably a laugh

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10-28-2013, 12:23 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
I agree, that contract is pretty untradable. Unfortunately we need an upgrade in D and there aren't many options available. You might have to swallow a risky contract.
Like I said I watch a decent number of Oilers games as you are my "late" team most nights. Is it more bad D or forwards not backchecking, supporting the existing D position, and giving the D a good outlet? To me, the defensive problems start with the forwards, but perhaps that is just my Eastern conference viewpoint.

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10-28-2013, 12:31 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
Sorry but the bolded will never ever ever ever be talked about. Not a chance he even gets mentioned in trade talks unless another #1 C is coming back
You say never, then add a qualifier.

RNH is on another level than them sure, but you throw out the right pieces anyone can be traded... Gretzky was traded. IF we traded Gretzky, we sure as **** can trade RNH.

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10-28-2013, 12:32 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Seriously? You guys have a top notch first line locked up between Yak, Nuge, Hall, and Eberle. Perron is looking good as supporting cast as well. Hemsky has worn out his welcome but most teams have a guy like that. Arcobello is probably not the answer for you either. From watching games it always seems that the Oil fall down on the 2nd line/3rd line. Am I wrong? Gamecentre only shows me so much but I make a point to watch at least one game a week.

Same with D. Smid and Schultz are OK. Ferrence probably should not get the minutes he does but you have to do what you have to do.

It seems to me the problem is not with the high end talent but rather a lack of "glue guys" who play a two way game, plop in 20-30 a year, support your D, and keep the other team honest. That and goal but I was making a point to stay away from the Miller to Edmonton talk.

Not trying to be hostile if I am wrong please explain it to be as I might be seeing something wrong.
Yopu might be right, but the pieces you offered dont help us improve our forwards defensive contributions. You have those pieces, but you havn't offered them. SO we said no because the trades offered do not help us.

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10-28-2013, 12:34 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Like I said I watch a decent number of Oilers games as you are my "late" team most nights. Is it more bad D or forwards not backchecking, supporting the existing D position, and giving the D a good outlet? To me, the defensive problems start with the forwards, but perhaps that is just my Eastern conference viewpoint.
It's a little bit of both. Goaltending has been a large issue in some early games as well. Obviously Miller isn't an option though.

There's a few growing pains here and there, and the team is showing signs of improving, they just need to put it all together.

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Old
10-28-2013, 12:37 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by kenfury View Post
Seriously? You guys have a top notch first line locked up between Yak, Nuge, Hall, and Eberle. Perron is looking good as supporting cast as well. Hemsky has worn out his welcome but most teams have a guy like that. Arcobello is probably not the answer for you either. From watching games it always seems that the Oil fall down on the 2nd line/3rd line. Am I wrong? Gamecentre only shows me so much but I make a point to watch at least one game a week.

Same with D. Smid and Schultz are OK. Ferrence probably should not get the minutes he does but you have to do what you have to do.

It seems to me the problem is not with the high end talent but rather a lack of "glue guys" who play a two way game, plop in 20-30 a year, support your D, and keep the other team honest. That and goal but I was making a point to stay away from the Miller to Edmonton talk.

Not trying to be hostile if I am wrong please explain it to be as I might be seeing something wrong.
Let me flip this around, maybe this will make it clearer to you. If I were to propose the following:

Jones/Joensuu
Musil/Davidson/Larsen/Gernat
2nd Rd Pick

For

Grigorenko/Girgensons/Pysyk

What would you say to that?

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Old
10-28-2013, 12:43 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by OILSLICK94 View Post
Love to get a player like Ott, but keep dreaming if you think a career AHLer and a walk on D from the KHL gets you Ott. Easily cost us a Marincin Gernart Musil Fedun basically a top prospect
Dman prospects are strongest asset , would not hesitate moving anyone of those for Ott

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Old
10-28-2013, 12:43 AM
  #443
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I don't think the Oilers particularly need defense though. Certainly not enough to make a risky play for it.

They need to tighten up their d-zone coverage and stop playing two non puck-moving d-men together (like Nultz and Ference), but I think that's slowly coming. It seems like every game they're reducing those "free man in the low slot" chances that marked their first 6 or 7 games.

If they can make trades for minor upgrades, then great, but the franchise isn't at a point where they can go big risk/reward with their moves.

Right now, I think the biggest thing on the agenda should be bottom-6 forwards. MacT's comment about "non factors" in the bottom-6 last year was incredibly apt, and I'm not convinced the bottom 6 is actually even level with last year's crew. I think it might be worse.

At the very least, last year, 4th liners like Smyth, Smithsen, Petrell, Jones, Lander and Belanger were all useful PKers. We can really only use Acton and Gordon as anything but very limited 5v5 players, and Acton isn't exactly playing lights out on the PK like those other guys did last year.

I recognize that this is partly due to injuries.

But players who have been useful PKers at any level?

Gagner, Smyth, Gordon...?

Arcobello's played a bit in the A and probably College. Perron's been a 3rd option on good teams.

It would be delightful for Lander to re-emerge any time soon. And tonight he was studly out there-- had a few chances, was a blanket, especially in the 3rd with Gordon missing a few minutes, and has gotten a LOT stronger and more physical. He hit 3 Kings which either knocked them over or off the puck in the 3rd period alone tonight. I would very happily welcome him back to the 4th line with the ability to move up the lineup in case of injuries. If there are injuries, Acton really has no ability to move up.

Anyway, bit of a rant there, but I think the Oilers could use more bottom-6 forwards who can PK, agitate, and move the puck at 5v5. Ryan Garbutt's a guy I've been heralding for a little while now. Physical, annoying, decent with the puck, decent size, good speed, and I think he could be had for relatively cheap.

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10-28-2013, 12:47 AM
  #444
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A package including Yak for Foligno, Hodgeson and Moulson! Huehue

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Old
10-28-2013, 12:48 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
I don't think the Oilers particularly need defense though. Certainly not enough to make a risky play for it.

They need to tighten up their d-zone coverage and stop playing two non puck-moving d-men together (like Nultz and Ference), but I think that's slowly coming. It seems like every game they're reducing those "free man in the low slot" chances that marked their first 6 or 7 games.

If they can make trades for minor upgrades, then great, but the franchise isn't at a point where they can go big risk/reward with their moves.

Right now, I think the biggest thing on the agenda should be bottom-6 forwards. MacT's comment about "non factors" in the bottom-6 last year was incredibly apt, and I'm not convinced the bottom 6 is actually even level with last year's crew. I think it might be worse.

At the very least, last year, 4th liners like Smyth, Smithsen, Petrell, Jones, Lander and Belanger were all useful PKers. We can really only use Acton and Gordon as anything but very limited 5v5 players, and Acton isn't exactly playing lights out on the PK like those other guys did last year.

I recognize that this is partly due to injuries.

But players who have been useful PKers at any level?

Gagner, Smyth, Gordon...?

Arcobello's played a bit in the A and probably College. Perron's been a 3rd option on good teams.

It would be delightful for Lander to re-emerge any time soon. And tonight he was studly out there-- had a few chances, was a blanket, especially in the 3rd with Gordon missing a few minutes, and has gotten a LOT stronger and more physical. He hit 3 Kings which either knocked them over or off the puck in the 3rd period alone tonight. I would very happily welcome him back to the 4th line with the ability to move up the lineup in case of injuries. If there are injuries, Acton really has no ability to move up.

Anyway, bit of a rant there, but I think the Oilers could use more bottom-6 forwards who can PK, agitate, and move the puck at 5v5. Ryan Garbutt's a guy I've been heralding for a little while now. Physical, annoying, decent with the puck, decent size, good speed, and I think he could be had for relatively cheap.
If you aren't convinced our bottom 6 isn't better than last year then what do you expect from a bottom 6?

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10-28-2013, 12:52 AM
  #446
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Incarcerated Bob called the Moulson to BUF Trade 15 minutes before it happened. He got the Moulson part right, thought it was for Miller, but corrected himself a couple of minutes before Staples broke the news.

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once and a while. Props where props are due.

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10-28-2013, 01:03 AM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Let me flip this around, maybe this will make it clearer to you. If I were to propose the following:

Jones/Joensuu
Musil/Davidson/Larsen/Gernat
2nd Rd Pick

For

Grigorenko/Girgensons/Pysyk

What would you say to that?
I would argue nuance and that there are different values for the three you mentioned but my general answer would be to ask you where the drugs you are on. To which you would respond "That is the stuff you were just smoking." Point taken on the overall though. Thanks.

Is my outside assessment of team problems correct?

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10-28-2013, 01:05 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Soli View Post
Incarcerated Bob called the Moulson to BUF Trade 15 minutes before it happened. He got the Moulson part right, thought it was for Miller, but corrected himself a couple of minutes before Staples broke the news.

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once and a while. Props where props are due.
Interesting development. Well when things change, they must be reevaluated. Perhaps IB has picked up a source. We'll see if he can repeat. If so, perhaps he'll need to be removed from the filter.

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10-28-2013, 01:13 AM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Soli View Post
Incarcerated Bob called the Moulson to BUF Trade 15 minutes before it happened. He got the Moulson part right, thought it was for Miller, but corrected himself a couple of minutes before Staples broke the news.

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once and a while. Props where props are due.

That is pretty much the only reason I'm curious about him talking Miller to Oilers rumors. I saw his tweet on Moulson to Buffalo and thought it wasn't legit but that turned out to be so who knows if he's onto something with Buffalo/Edmonton.

Miller's NTC is still an issue and probably remains one, and I would be extremely hesitant to give up any 1st round picks.

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10-28-2013, 01:15 AM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
I don't think the Oilers particularly need defense though. Certainly not enough to make a risky play for it.

They need to tighten up their d-zone coverage and stop playing two non puck-moving d-men together (like Nultz and Ference), but I think that's slowly coming. It seems like every game they're reducing those "free man in the low slot" chances that marked their first 6 or 7 games.

If they can make trades for minor upgrades, then great, but the franchise isn't at a point where they can go big risk/reward with their moves.

Right now, I think the biggest thing on the agenda should be bottom-6 forwards. MacT's comment about "non factors" in the bottom-6 last year was incredibly apt, and I'm not convinced the bottom 6 is actually even level with last year's crew. I think it might be worse.

At the very least, last year, 4th liners like Smyth, Smithsen, Petrell, Jones, Lander and Belanger were all useful PKers. We can really only use Acton and Gordon as anything but very limited 5v5 players, and Acton isn't exactly playing lights out on the PK like those other guys did last year.

I recognize that this is partly due to injuries.

But players who have been useful PKers at any level?

Gagner, Smyth, Gordon...?

Arcobello's played a bit in the A and probably College. Perron's been a 3rd option on good teams.

It would be delightful for Lander to re-emerge any time soon. And tonight he was studly out there-- had a few chances, was a blanket, especially in the 3rd with Gordon missing a few minutes, and has gotten a LOT stronger and more physical. He hit 3 Kings which either knocked them over or off the puck in the 3rd period alone tonight. I would very happily welcome him back to the 4th line with the ability to move up the lineup in case of injuries. If there are injuries, Acton really has no ability to move up.

Anyway, bit of a rant there, but I think the Oilers could use more bottom-6 forwards who can PK, agitate, and move the puck at 5v5. Ryan Garbutt's a guy I've been heralding for a little while now. Physical, annoying, decent with the puck, decent size, good speed, and I think he could be had for relatively cheap.
Couldn't disagree more. Jones has looked like his old self, the 4th line knows it's role and has performed it this year, Gordon is an upgrade on Horcoff/Belanger. Right now with injuries it looks terrible on paper and has still been more effective than last years healthy group. I'm not sure how you see it differently. When/if the Oilers become healthy you're looking at more of a three scoring line look than a bottom 6. If we can run three scoring lines and have the 4th line playing like it is now and creating energy that's huge for the team. If Ryan Jones continues his play I really wonder what happens. The obvious decision is demote Eager but Arcobello's likely staying up also.

Hall - Nuge - Eberle
Joensuu - Gagner - Yakupov
Perron - Gordon - Hemsky
Gazdic - Arcobello - Jones
Acton and Mac scratches?

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