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FA Signings, Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII: "The makeup has to be jigged"

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Old
10-29-2013, 12:48 AM
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Care to point us towards these "suggestions" that are apparently all over the place?


Even without a link, I still don't buy it. Sure, it's possible, but to me it sounds a whole lot like people seeing two struggling teams and making connections of their own rather than any sort of actual discussions being reported.

For the record, Bogosian is one of the few names that I could tolerate being thrown around as a return for Yakupov, but I honestly don't see either team being too interested in moving those two players.
I've read it in about 3 different places tonight, in my daily combing of Oilers' trade rumours on the internet, which may all emanate from the same source. It's a rumour of course, and may be just speculation, but here's maybe the most reliable and legit of those sources:

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/edm131026.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
Bogosian is overrated. From what I've seen of him the last couple seasons, he really isn't great. A lot of Jets fans say the same thing.

I'm not worried about MacT making a deal like this.
I like Bogosian. He is a third overall selection. He is 23, plays physical, smart, skates and shoots well. Sure, he's a young defender at this point, so there are imperfections in his game, and he's a couple of years away from being completely dominant, but he is capable of playing 22 minutes a night effectively against the league's best, he's a plus player, and he'd stabilize our blueline as a top pairing guy. In a couple of years time, he'll become a dominant NHL defenseman in a couple of years time. Bogosian and Nurse would eventually be amazing on our blueline. So, while I don't like the thought of giving up Yakupov, the thought of acquiring Bogosian is a little intriguing to me, mostly because he is so much more of what this team needs for success.

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10-29-2013, 12:49 AM
  #577
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I don't see why Winnipeg would be even close to interested in something like that.

Hemsky's contract is done this year
J Schultz < Bogosian
Yak may have higher potential than Kane, but Kane has already established himself as a solid big scoring winger, which aren't easy to come by.
yeah we can dream

It would be interesting though, if Hemsky agreed to re-sign at market value, while knowing he'd be traded, and the oilers'd be retaining part of his salary, as a thank-you for his years of camaraderie.


Last edited by Steve BachIntyre: 10-29-2013 at 12:55 AM.
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10-29-2013, 12:54 AM
  #578
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Originally Posted by misfit View Post
So why is it that Edmonton being 27th in the league makes them desperate and have to pay through the nose to get anything, but Buffalo (the league's 30th place team) isn't? We're desperate enough to give up a 1st, Schultz, Gagner +++ for a goalie and an overpriced defenseman, but Buffalo is in a position to rake us over the coals?

Wouldn't Buffalo be the team that's more desperate to make a season-saving trade by this metric?

How about Philly? Are they going to have to give up Giroux, Schenn, or Couturier if they want to make a trade to help their team because they're perceived as "desperate"?

No? So why does everyone think the Oilers will "have to overpay" in order to make any kind of trade?

Bottom line, your proposal is God awful and completely unrealistic.


Keep that deal in mind indeed.
29 other clubs know just what the oilers want and the oilers have just over a handfull of players that other teams want. Other teams know full well you give us a half decent goalie that the team has faith in--we are further up the standing then we are and that prized first rounder quickly becomes a mid first pick and not worth as much.

Oilers need a goalie and until a team with either a hot young goalie ready for prime time is willing to trade the guy the have or a team goes into full rebuild mold-- the oilers are looking at a very small market and the guy that is running the market does not want to come to Edmonton. When the Sabres trade miller--unless the team sends back their number 1-- the oilers will then be in the bidding for that player--hopefully the other teams that need goalies have given up by then

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10-29-2013, 12:56 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by Steve BachIntyre View Post
Bogosian is exactly what the Oilers need. He is young, mobile, tough, plays with heart and sticks up for his team mates. He can clear the crease and has some offensive upside. That being said he is not the #1 defenseman we are looking for however he does imo have that potential. He is also great around the community, and I'm sure would hate getting traded away from Winnipeg. I think Yak is a definite over payment for him, though that's what it would likely take to acquire him. I would do something like Kane Bogo,and 2nd for Yak, J.Schultz and Hemsky+. I don't think UFAs would care how J.Schultz was traded after signing here if they saw the team with RNH Hall Ebs Perron Kane Gagner as the top 6, and an upgraded D.
Jets would be in tough to take Yak + J Schultz for one of Kane or Bogo never mind both... either trade sets them back today... I think we as fans can be so honest... that makes them worse today

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10-29-2013, 12:59 AM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Jets would be in tough to take Yak + J Schultz for one of Kane or Bogo never mind both... either trade sets them back today... I think we as fans can be so honest... that makes them worse today
Pass me some of that stuff man!

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10-29-2013, 01:00 AM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
How about this

will get flames and I am not going to post it on the main--your reactions will be plenty


Sabres give up
Miller (who the oilers sign for 5 years)
Stafford
Ehroff

for
Klefbom
Oilers first in 2014, 2nd in 2015
Gagner
J Schultz
Nick Schultz to send some contract back

Of course two players coming will veto any deal-- but just for amusement
I think even nhl 14 interrupts the proposal and asks what you have been smoking.

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10-29-2013, 01:03 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
29 other clubs know just what the oilers want and the oilers have just over a handfull of players that other teams want. Other teams know full well you give us a half decent goalie that the team has faith in--we are further up the standing then we are and that prized first rounder quickly becomes a mid first pick and not worth as much.

Oilers need a goalie and until a team with either a hot young goalie ready for prime time is willing to trade the guy the have or a team goes into full rebuild mold-- the oilers are looking at a very small market and the guy that is running the market does not want to come to Edmonton. When the Sabres trade miller--unless the team sends back their number 1-- the oilers will then be in the bidding for that player--hopefully the other teams that need goalies have given up by then
I think that the Oilers have to run with Bachman and Dubnyk for a bit and re-assess the situation later. I don't think that paying through the nose for a goaltender is a smart option at this juncture. This summer the UFA market have some quality goaltending options, so if we can be patient until then, we should be. It puts us further ahead in the near future.

Bachman has a fairly good resume. He needs some games to see exactly what he is as a goaltender. Maybe he makes good on this opportunity. He didn't look out of place against L.A. at all. If Dubnyk can play reasonably well, they might not be a bad goaltending tandem.

I'd be more inclined to look for a number one defender, if I were MacT and wait on the goaltending option for the summer, if at all possible. Bachman's play, holds Dubnyk accountable and probably makes LaBarbera expendable in fairly short order. We have to see how this settles when the dust clears.

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10-29-2013, 01:56 AM
  #583
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Legitimately asking: Who thinks the Oilers should tank now?

The season is basically over. It's sad to say that at the end of October, but it is what it is. This team isn't good enough to go on a run and if MacT decides to make bandaid fixes it'll probably cost this team their first rounder.

I might as well answer my own question: Yes.

Ekblad should be very good.

The team probably isn't good enough to make the playoffs next year either.

Might as well load 'er up with McDavid.

I realize this is the same old stuff we've been saying the last 4-5 years, but is there a realistically better option with Lowe and MacT in charge?

Rebuild the rebuild.

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10-29-2013, 02:02 AM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Legitimately asking: Who thinks the Oilers should tank now?

The season is basically over. It's sad to say that at the end of October, but it is what it is. This team isn't good enough to go on a run and if MacT decides to make bandaid fixes it'll probably cost this team their first rounder.

I might as well answer my own question: Yes.

Ekblad should be very good.

The team probably isn't good enough to make the playoffs next year either.

Might as well load 'er up with McDavid.

I realize this is the same old stuff we've been saying the last 4-5 years, but is there a realistically better option with Lowe and MacT in charge?

Rebuild the rebuild.
Not that I disagree, but what do you do to "tank". The RW situation with Hemsky and Yakupov makes trading Hemsky for likely not a great return, difficult. We have no UFA assets to flip. Dubnyk is a question mark but you can't trade him, no way in hell with no semblance of a contingency plan in goal. N. Schultz can likely be moved, but for what, I don't think we get a 2nd for him.

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10-29-2013, 02:08 AM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
Not that I disagree, but what do you do to "tank". The RW situation with Hemsky and Yakupov makes trading Hemsky for likely not a great return, difficult. We have no UFA assets to flip. Dubnyk is a question mark but you can't trade him, no way in hell with no semblance of a contingency plan in goal. N. Schultz can likely be moved, but for what, I don't think we get a 2nd for him.
Don't trade our first rounder (unless to move up), don't trade other picks for vets that are on expiring deals, consider moving Smid, dangle Hall to see what kind of offers you get.

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10-29-2013, 02:13 AM
  #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Legitimately asking: Who thinks the Oilers should tank now?

The season is basically over. It's sad to say that at the end of October, but it is what it is. This team isn't good enough to go on a run and if MacT decides to make bandaid fixes it'll probably cost this team their first rounder.

I might as well answer my own question: Yes.

Ekblad should be very good.

The team probably isn't good enough to make the playoffs next year either.

Might as well load 'er up with McDavid.

I realize this is the same old stuff we've been saying the last 4-5 years, but is there a realistically better option with Lowe and MacT in charge?

Rebuild the rebuild.
If this iteration of the Oilers can come together under Eakins system and play their way out of this massive hole, then that's what should happen. I'll take a core that can play the system and execute but comes up short due to their ****** start over another high draft pick.

That being said, with injuries compounding, it might not be possible to make up much ground.

Ekblad - Nurse is going to be siiiiick.

Buffalo, New York, and even Florida I think would take forwards. Philly would take the defenseman; imperative they get ahead of us.

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10-29-2013, 02:13 AM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Don't trade our first rounder (unless to move up), don't trade other picks for vets that are on expiring deals, consider moving Smid, dangle Hall to see what kind of offers you get.
Waaaay to early to start dangling Hall.

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10-29-2013, 02:15 AM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Legitimately asking: Who thinks the Oilers should tank now?

The season is basically over. It's sad to say that at the end of October, but it is what it is. This team isn't good enough to go on a run and if MacT decides to make bandaid fixes it'll probably cost this team their first rounder.

I might as well answer my own question: Yes.

Ekblad should be very good.

The team probably isn't good enough to make the playoffs next year either.

Might as well load 'er up with McDavid.

I realize this is the same old stuff we've been saying the last 4-5 years, but is there a realistically better option with Lowe and MacT in charge?

Rebuild the rebuild.
if you want to rebuild the rebuild
Trade Nuge, Eberle, Hall, Schultz, and Gagner-- trade Yahupov while we can still get a 4th rounder and 3rd liner overpaid fringe players.

Tanking is not an option-

biting the bullit and tossing Dubnyk under the bus and over paying for a goalie is option that I think will happen. You can try to rebuild the rebuild, but you will need to start with a goalie

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10-29-2013, 02:26 AM
  #589
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what would it take to get malkin

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Old
10-29-2013, 02:35 AM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Legitimately asking: Who thinks the Oilers should tank now?

The season is basically over. It's sad to say that at the end of October, but it is what it is. This team isn't good enough to go on a run and if MacT decides to make bandaid fixes it'll probably cost this team their first rounder.

I might as well answer my own question: Yes.

Ekblad should be very good.

The team probably isn't good enough to make the playoffs next year either.

Might as well load 'er up with McDavid.

I realize this is the same old stuff we've been saying the last 4-5 years, but is there a realistically better option with Lowe and MacT in charge?

Rebuild the rebuild.
I'm just not there yet. We can't continually look to the future. Can we? It's not looking bright right now, for sure, but it is crazy to write off the season entering November imo. A winning streak puts this team right back in the mix.

As it stands, if Bachman can play, and, optimistically, I think he can, then the Oilers have clearly dodged a bullet there and the team is much better off. Special Teams need to rebound, but 5-on-5 play has improved.

Also, I really don't see MacTavish running with a team that has missing pieces like this one does. He's not Tambellini. I think we will see some moves that make this team better this season. We have the trading chips to make improvements.

The injuries and goaltending obviously don't help Eakins this season, but none of this is really his fault. If Bachman is legit, and the Oilers can get some additional pieces using some of their trading chips, then I think we'll see a team go from bad to good in a hurry this season. Acquire:

a. a top defender
b. a tough as nails 3rd pairing defender
c. a talented two-way forward

The Oilers have trade chips to acquire all of those pieces. Recover Gagner and Hall from the IR and see where this team is at. As mentioned, a winning streak is all that takes this team to be in contention.

Optimistically--recovering our PP and PK, acquiring a couple more pieces, banking on quality goaltending from Bachman and Dubnyk, returning to reasonable health and avoiding further, devastating player loss to injury--this team could still become competitive and salvage this season. Is that too much optimism? Perhaps. But I can't write the team off going into November, too much can still happen. We're only 13 games in; there are 69 games left to play.

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10-29-2013, 02:38 AM
  #591
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Waaaay to early to start dangling Hall.
Hall to me is looking more and more like a tweener. By that I mean someone who is better than your average first-liner but not at the level of a star forward. He simply lacks too much in hockey sense and hands to be at that level imo.

I'm also not sure how much more improvement there is left in him. It isn't like seeing RNH try hard to make the right play 90% of the time but sometimes failing because he doesn't have enough strength or endurance yet, or watching Yakupov stumble around because of his lack of patience and experience. With Hall, his physical tools are what they are, and he'll always be a good player because of those tools, but I don't think age or experience will cause a huge improvement in his game.

Thing is, his value is still probably super high around the league. If you dangle him to a team like Nashville you could probably get serious discussions regarding Seth Jones. Heck depending on how things turn out in Long Island this year you might be able to get discussions regarding Travis Hamonic. Point being, Hall could be traded for a piece or pieces that end up being far more valuable to the Oilers than Hall alone can be.

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10-29-2013, 02:41 AM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Legitimately asking: Who thinks the Oilers should tank now?

The season is basically over. It's sad to say that at the end of October, but it is what it is. This team isn't good enough to go on a run and if MacT decides to make bandaid fixes it'll probably cost this team their first rounder.

I might as well answer my own question: Yes.

Ekblad should be very good.

The team probably isn't good enough to make the playoffs next year either.

Might as well load 'er up with McDavid.

I realize this is the same old stuff we've been saying the last 4-5 years, but is there a realistically better option with Lowe and MacT in charge?

Rebuild the rebuild.
They need to learn how to win or at the very least play a competitive style of hockey and get rid of a lot of bad habits.

If McDavid was available this year it might be worth entertaining in an off-hand way, but he's not, and even if he was the lottery rules have changed to make it more difficult for any one team to "guarantee" themselves that spot.

There's enough talent here to compete. They are just going to have to tough it out and learn to compete.

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10-29-2013, 02:46 AM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
They need to learn how to win or at the very least play a competitive style of hockey and get rid of a lot of bad habits.

If McDavid was available this year it might be worth entertaining in an off-hand way, but he's not, and even if he was the lottery rules have changed to make it more difficult for any one team to "guarantee" themselves that spot.

There's enough talent here to compete. They are just going to have to tough it out and learn to compete.
What I'm seeing this year is a team who is playing a competitive style but is still lacking the competitive players in key positions to win games. We're losing games by 1 goal a lot this year, we're losing games where we do actually outplay our opposition. All signs point to this being a development year where we are competitive in games but the results might not be there. This kind of year should have happened last year. It didn't, so now the team is behind. MacT needs to acquire a lot more Perron's and Gordon's and it will take probably 2-3 years of developing draft picks or making trades to see that happen. Meanwhile, if the team finishes 10th or 11th last it doesn't necessarily do them any good - or at least any better than finishing lower with a better shot at drafting better talent again.

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10-29-2013, 03:03 AM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
What I'm seeing this year is a team who is playing a competitive style but is still lacking the competitive players in key positions to win games. We're losing games by 1 goal a lot this year, we're losing games where we do actually outplay our opposition. All signs point to this being a development year where we are competitive in games but the results might not be there. This kind of year should have happened last year. It didn't, so now the team is behind. MacT needs to acquire a lot more Perron's and Gordon's and it will take probably 2-3 years of developing draft picks or making trades to see that happen. Meanwhile, if the team finishes 10th or 11th last it doesn't necessarily do them any good - or at least any better than finishing lower with a better shot at drafting better talent again.
Well who knows, a player at 10 or 11 can still be good or that pick can be packaged for a d-man who can play now.

I don't think Ekblad is even going 1, Seth Jones was far more hyped and he didn't even go top 3.

If we finish that low again though it means our kids really can't cut it, and in that scenario an Ekblad isn't going to help much, certainly not for many years.

Remember when half this board though Adam Larsson was the second coming? D-Men need *a lot* of time to develop. At least we already have a couple cooking already in Nurse and Klefbom.

I think our pick is going to be traded this year, but it's just a hunch. They tried to move the pick last summer too.

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10-29-2013, 03:14 AM
  #595
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Waaaay to early to start dangling Hall.
While I agree... I am surprised MacT has not done his draft strategy of trading a "A" asset for two Bs... then one B for two Cs...

Let's say something like this... we all think depth is the problem... in net and up front...

Trade 1- Eberle + Dubnyk + 2014 1st to BUF for Miller Ehrhoff Ott ($9.5M for $13M)
Trade 2- N. Schultz + Miller + Klefbom to FLA for Kopecky + Markstrom ($9.75M for $4.3M)

Salary in- 17.3M
Salary Out- 19.25M

Hall-RNH-Kopecky
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Ott-Gordon-Hemsky
Smyth-Arcobello-Pitlick
Gazdic/Eager Acton/Lander/Jones
Joensuu Mac IR

Ehrhoff-Petry
Smid-J. Schultz
Ference-Belov
Grebeshkov

Markstrom
Labarbera/Bachman

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10-29-2013, 03:16 AM
  #596
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Steve Smith also needs to sit down with Justin Schultz and teach him some basic fundamentals of defense. I understand not everybody can be Scott Stevens, but if you're going to play completely non-physical and roam like Sergei Zubov, you better try hard at being good positionally and be able to at least gain good body position on forwards.

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10-29-2013, 03:20 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
While I agree... I am surprised MacT has not done his draft strategy of trading a "A" asset for two Bs... then one B for two Cs...

Let's say something like this... we all think depth is the problem... in net and up front...

Trade 1- Eberle + Dubnyk + 2014 1st to BUF for Miller Ehrhoff Ott ($9.5M for $13M)
Trade 2- N. Schultz + Miller + Klefbom to FLA for Kopecky + Markstrom ($9.75M for $4.3M)

Salary in- 17.3M
Salary Out- 19.25M

Hall-RNH-Kopecky
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
Ott-Gordon-Hemsky
Smyth-Arcobello-Pitlick
Gazdic/Eager Acton/Lander/Jones
Joensuu Mac IR

Ehrhoff-Petry
Smid-J. Schultz
Ference-Belov
Grebeshkov

Markstrom
Labarbera/Bachman
We get ethered in the Eberle deal. Giving up our 1st as well? No way.

Ladislav Smid for Brian Campbell.

EDM 1st (top 12 2014) + Martin Marincin + Ales Hemsky (deadline deal) for Adam Larsson

Sign Jonas Hiller or Jaroslav Halak for 3 years x 5.5 million.

There. That's two major issues addressed. Florida is not giving up Markstrom for a pending UFA in Miller.

Hall RNH Eberle
Joensuu Gagner Yakupov
Perron Gordon UFA
Jones Acton Pitlick
Gazdic Arcobello

Campbell Petry
Ference J. Schultz
Larsson Klefbom/Nurse

Hiller
Bachman


Last edited by Soundwave: 10-29-2013 at 03:25 AM.
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10-29-2013, 03:21 AM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
What I'm seeing this year is a team who is playing a competitive style but is still lacking the competitive players in key positions to win games. We're losing games by 1 goal a lot this year, we're losing games where we do actually outplay our opposition. All signs point to this being a development year where we are competitive in games but the results might not be there. This kind of year should have happened last year. It didn't, so now the team is behind. MacT needs to acquire a lot more Perron's and Gordon's and it will take probably 2-3 years of developing draft picks or making trades to see that happen. Meanwhile, if the team finishes 10th or 11th last it doesn't necessarily do them any good - or at least any better than finishing lower with a better shot at drafting better talent again.
MacTavish needs to make some line up adjustments to acquire those pieces, or you are exactly right: it's shaping up to be another development year.

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10-29-2013, 03:25 AM
  #599
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Our losing this year is going to send the wrong signal to UFA's and players with expiring contracts. Krueger had begun to dig us out, and now we're back in the basement. Edmonton factor + failure factor = no interest, high prices. We are going to be in a bad spot.

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10-29-2013, 03:29 AM
  #600
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I should add that part of the reason I think Hall should be dangled is that he is the only top 6 (maybe even top 9) forward on the team not to have fully bought in to Eakins' system. Only imo of course, but every other forward has bought in. Hemsky is playing the most complete hockey of his career, Perron and Gordon have been revelations, Arcobello is playing way above his weight class, Eberle is driving the net a lot more, RNH isn't shying away from contact, etc.

Hall continues to try get by on physical talents alone, thinks he can outdeke the entire defence at times, still tries to play cutesy with the puck high in the offensive zone which is the worst place a turnover can take place, and is half-hearted with his committment on defense.

I know it seems like I'm doing a lot of Hall bashing tonight, but it's just frustrating because a guy with his physical talents should be dominating a lot more if he were a bit smarter and more committed on the ice. I say this with some sadness, but it is a good thing Ference was made the C, not Hall.

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