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FA Signings, Trade Rumors and Proposals Thread VIII: "The makeup has to be jigged"

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Old
10-30-2013, 03:24 PM
  #801
FireMacT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
Didnt Friedman say last 30 questions that Philly would love to get rid of Grossman or Mezaros but noone will take them at their high cost and diminishing play?
Mezaros maybe. But Grossman is playing well Philly's top 4 even thought they stink this year. And his contract is v reasonable for a good shutdown guy.


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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
We made a really stupid mistake in letting Lowe hire his best bud rather than hiring Burke.
*** eh

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10-30-2013, 03:25 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
I don't disagree with your assessment of Burke, but MacT's additions haven't been the problem. I don't think BB would have been able to do much more to dig the team out.
Burke strongly believes in building a team from the net out. So he'd probably deal some of the young guns for some dmen.

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Old
10-30-2013, 03:27 PM
  #803
Mr Forever
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Originally Posted by LaymanX View Post
Burke strongly believes in building a team from the net out. So he'd probably deal some of the young guns for some dmen.
And what a train wreck that would be!

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Old
10-30-2013, 03:33 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
So what's the point of employing a guy who can't play if he'll only fight other plugs while other guys take run at our stars? That was the only reason they signed him for chrissakes!
So what would have him do? Take a run at Kessel/Kadri/Lupul, adding to the already disgraceful NHL player concussion tally. Or maybe he could just club Franson over the head. Or perhaps he could just continue to lay the body and fight any takers, he is a young player with some hockey skill. Add that with some grit and tenacity in the lineup and I think the 4th line will be pretty solid.

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Old
10-30-2013, 03:35 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
We made a really stupid mistake in letting Lowe hire his best bud rather than hiring Burke. Not that Mac T is bad, but we don't have time to screw around while our rookie GM and coaching staff try to find their way.

The Leafs don't have a stud d-man per se and aren't the biggest team either and are no.1 in the East ... there's no reason he couldn't have built something similar here.

This guy knows how to build at bare minimum a competitive squad.
I agree with this 100%

The Leafs are winning today because of the work Burke did during his tenure. The Leafs were such a mess 6 years ago. Last year they finally made the playoffs. This year they are off to an excellent start. Burke set the tone from day 1 and the club had a direction and a plan. Nonis is just enjoying the fruits of Burke's labour.

I've never seen an organization change a GM and a Coach so many times and expect that things will improve. The only constants are the assistant coaches and Lowe. I don't understand how they get the free pass over and over again.

The Oilers keep shuffling the same deck chairs trying to stop a sinking ship. Maybe need to start looking at the captain of the ship and ask why the ship is sinking in the first place.

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Old
10-30-2013, 03:40 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Tedi View Post
So what would have him do? Take a run at Kessel/Kadri/Lupul, adding to the already disgraceful NHL player concussion tally. Or maybe he could just club Franson over the head. Or perhaps he could just continue to lay the body and fight any takers, he is a young player with some hockey skill. Add that with some grit and tenacity in the lineup and I think the 4th line will be pretty solid.
His sole job is to protect the kids and punish people who run at them. That's why they picked him up, not because of his "hockey skill" (the existence of which is highly debatable). Certainly not to fight other plugs or skate around chasing the puck in the d-zone. And certainly not to sit idly by while one of our stars is crumpled in a heap. Again.

Make no mistake: I don't like goons. I think they are useless as deterrents and tools of retribution. Gazdic is just proving me right on this, but I don't take any pleasure in that.

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10-30-2013, 03:42 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Fixed to Ruin View Post
I agree with this 100%

The Leafs are winning today because of the work Burke did during his tenure. The Leafs were such a mess 6 years ago. Last year they finally made the playoffs. This year they are off to an excellent start. Burke set the tone from day 1 and the club had a direction and a plan. Nonis is just enjoying the fruits of Burke's labour.

I've never seen an organization change a GM and a Coach so many times and expect that things will improve. The only constants are the assistant coaches and Lowe. I don't understand how they get the free pass over and over again.

The Oilers keep shuffling the same deck chairs trying to stop a sinking ship. Maybe need to start looking at the captain of the ship and ask why the ship is sinking in the first place.
By your own admission it took Burke six years to turn the Leafs around. Just wondering: how long a timeline would you give for Burke to turn things around here?

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10-30-2013, 03:44 PM
  #808
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What would we have to give PHI to get:
B.Schenn-2C with size
Simmonds - 2LW with size and goes to the dirty area
Coburn- Has size and would be a good fit with J.Schultz

Yak, N.Schultz(salary): Hemsky; Marincin

I am not sure what it would cost but I think it adds some size and grit to our top 6 and that is very important.

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10-30-2013, 03:47 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Fixed to Ruin View Post
I agree with this 100%

The Leafs are winning today because of the work Burke did during his tenure. The Leafs were such a mess 6 years ago. Last year they finally made the playoffs. This year they are off to an excellent start. Burke set the tone from day 1 and the club had a direction and a plan. Nonis is just enjoying the fruits of Burke's labour.

I've never seen an organization change a GM and a Coach so many times and expect that things will improve. The only constants are the assistant coaches and Lowe. I don't understand how they get the free pass over and over again.

The Oilers keep shuffling the same deck chairs trying to stop a sinking ship. Maybe need to start looking at the captain of the ship and ask why the ship is sinking in the first place.
Yup, he would've turned around this mess in 2 years tops IMO ... he had nothing but Kaberle to work with when he arrived in Toronto, in Edmonton he'd have a ton of assets to work with.

But nope, he's too opinated for this ownership group and Lowe to handle, gotta keep things "in house" with a Lowe approved hire. Such BS.

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10-30-2013, 03:48 PM
  #810
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Totally 100% wrong.

Let me get this straight. You want to change the management team - currently MacT and Lowe - less than one season after Tambellini was let go?

This is insane. Constantly changing coaches, suggesting another GM. Its truly idiotic.

And then changing Lowe... so what? Does anyone here actually think that Kevin Lowe is in charge of making personnel changes still and that its not Mactavish?

Take a look at Calgary. At St. Louis. Neither team has star players with more skill than Hall, RNH or Yakupov. But they are successful - why?

Because they play a TEAM game. Did you watch the Los Angeles game? The Kings play a TEAM game.

The Oilers clearly do not. The Oilers also have young players playing in roles that they are clearly not ready for, and playing too many minutes. case in point: Yakupov, Justin Schultz.

The skilled stars need to dump their ego, and get used to playing a team game. Its what St. Louis finally did, when they hired Ken Hitchcock.

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10-30-2013, 03:49 PM
  #811
Moose Coleman
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Yup, he would've turned around this mess in 2 years tops IMO ... he had nothing but Kaberle to work with when he arrived in Toronto, in Edmonton he'd have a ton of assets to work with.

But nope, he's too opinated for this ownership group and Lowe to handle, gotta keep things "in house" with a Lowe approved hire. Such BS.
So Burke would get two years grace, but MacT gets 14 games?

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Old
10-30-2013, 03:50 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
By your own admission it took Burke six years to turn the Leafs around. Just wondering: how long a timeline would you give for Burke to turn things around here?
Fair question.

I think the Oilers should be turning the corner now.... as in a playoff spot. The leafs did it in 6 years without drafting 1st overall a bunch of times.

I don't want to get into it too much here, since I don't want to derail the thread.

On another note,

One thought I had the other day was that I think that the Oilers should look at signing 20-22 yr old goalies from Europe and giving them a shot in the ECHL or AHL if they are willing to come over.

This is something Nashville tends to do (except they usually draft those players) and it seems to be working out for them. Might be an idea on how to improve our goaltending depth.

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10-30-2013, 03:53 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
So Burke would get two years grace, but MacT gets 14 games?
2 years max, I think probably he'd have turned it around in one summer to be honest. He's got the main tools he needs here already, he had nothing to work with going into Toronto.

After 14 games, this season already looks like a wash. I hope not, but it looks like another wasted season.

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Old
10-30-2013, 03:57 PM
  #814
Mr Forever
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Why do you people think bringing in different players to augment Hall, RNH, Schultz etc, is going to above the problem, when those players and their reeking loser mentality is the problem.

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10-30-2013, 03:58 PM
  #815
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Hall-RNH-Eberle
Perron-Gagner-Yakupov
BLANK-BLANK-Hemsky
Eager-Gordon-Pitlick
Smyth/BLANK

for my money, this is the forwards template going forward needed to follow. That 3rd line LW has to be big (maybe Joensuu ends up as that guy, but I'm not convinced yet) and that 3rd line C has to be somewhat big (Arcobello isn't on my ideal team, too small, not as talented as the small forwards already in the top 6) The blank is for a more veteran C for 5th line, not Acton.

The D:

Smid-BLANK
Ference-Schultz
BLANK-BLANK
Belov

D needs a retooling. Petry, who I like, is our best trade chip in terms of actually upgrading to that two-way D we desperately need, like a Yandle/Byfuglien/whoever, names don't matter. From there, we need another tough, stay at home guy, and another puckmover. Belov may be this puckmover, but for now, I have him at 7.

Dubnyk
LaBarbera

I am a believer that team D has been the downfall of the team, and not necessarily the goalies. If both of these guys leave at the end of the year, I'm fine with getting new guys like Halak and Hiller AS LONG as they don't overspend or give too many years. We already learned that lesson a little with Khabibulin's signing. I'm still a Dubnyk believer in the meantime.

That's my blueprint. Guys with some size and toughness up front, 2 of them perhaps, then some toughness on the blueline, as well as that top pairing D man.

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10-30-2013, 04:00 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Why do you people think bringing in different players to augment Hall, RNH, Schultz etc, is going to above the problem, when those players and their reeking loser mentality is the problem.
Not every player is capable of carrying a franchise at age 20-22.

The Canucks would be a disaster is they asked a 22-year-old Henrik/Daniel Sedin to carry the team.

It would be nice if we had gotten a Crosby or Tavares from the draft but the reality is we didn't. We got some good players, but not ones that are able to carry a franchise right out of the gate with minimal development.

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10-30-2013, 04:04 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by Fixed to Ruin View Post
Fair question.

I think the Oilers should be turning the corner now.... as in a playoff spot. The leafs did it in 6 years without drafting 1st overall a bunch of times.
It took the Leafs six years from the time Burke started to them making the playoffs.

Edmonton is only four years removed from it's first DFL finish. By your reasoning, doesn't that give us another two years to make the post season? Or does having the high picks (something Burke would have had if he hadn't dealt them away) mean the window is shorter? I don't see why that's the case, given we have very little outside of those players for the new GM to work with.

All I know is the moves MacT has made have been winners so far. He's started the process that everyone said needed to be started (surrounding the picks with a supporting cast).

Soundwave:

Quote:
2 years max, I think probably he'd have turned it around in one summer to be honest. He's got the main tools he needs here already, he had nothing to work with going into Toronto.
Sounds like wishful thinking to me. MacT did a lot this past summer, it's a hard to imagine Burke doing more and having a mor eimmediate impact.

Quote:
After 14 games, this season already looks like a wash. I hope not, but it looks like another wasted season.
Do you think a Brian Burke-run team with sub-Mendoza line goaltending and injuries to key players would really have a better record at this point? Because that's been the main issues this season looks lost already, not anything the GM did.

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10-30-2013, 04:06 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Not every player is capable of carrying a franchise at age 20-22.

The Canucks would be a disaster is they asked a 22-year-old Henrik/Daniel Sedin to carry the team.

It would be nice if we had gotten a Crosby or Tavares from the draft but the reality is we didn't. We got some good players, but not ones that are able to carry a franchise right out of the gate with minimal development.
Tavares is a lot closer to Taylor Hall than Sidney Crosby.

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10-30-2013, 04:08 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Tavares is a lot closer to Taylor Hall than Sidney Crosby.
He's a notch above the likes of Hall for sure, Crosby is quasi-generational.

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10-30-2013, 04:08 PM
  #820
Mr Forever
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Tavares is a lot closer to Taylor Hall than Sidney Crosby.
Crosby

A few guys

Tavares

Quite a few guys









Hall

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10-30-2013, 04:09 PM
  #821
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Totally 100% wrong.

Let me get this straight. You want to change the management team - currently MacT and Lowe - less than one season after Tambellini was let go?

This is insane. Constantly changing coaches, suggesting another GM. Its truly idiotic.

And then changing Lowe... so what? Does anyone here actually think that Kevin Lowe is in charge of making personnel changes still and that its not Mactavish?

Take a look at Calgary. At St. Louis. Neither team has star players with more skill than Hall, RNH or Yakupov. But they are successful - why?

Because they play a TEAM game. Did you watch the Los Angeles game? The Kings play a TEAM game.

The Oilers clearly do not. The Oilers also have young players playing in roles that they are clearly not ready for, and playing too many minutes. case in point: Yakupov, Justin Schultz.

The skilled stars need to dump their ego, and get used to playing a team game. Its what St. Louis finally did, when they hired Ken Hitchcock.
The Oilers could have had Ken Hitchcock. Kevin Lowe would never hire Ken Hitchcock. That is the whole point. Why are we changing coaches every year or so? Because dumb ass keeps hiring the wrong guys. The MacT hire was mind boggling dumb and that falls at Lowes feet. Lowe has his fingers in all the pies don't fool yourself. I would guess 100% for sure that any major move MacT wants to make he will have to get approval from Lowe and Katz.

Lowe is the one constant and the one lynch pin in all the woes of this team.

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10-30-2013, 04:12 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
He's a notch above the likes of Hall for sure, Crosby is quasi-generational.
Based on what?

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10-30-2013, 04:16 PM
  #823
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Based on what?
Based on the fact that he's an elite level finisher who's made the Islanders a playoff team despite having less talent around him than Hall does.

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Old
10-30-2013, 04:19 PM
  #824
Mr Forever
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Tavares willed the islanders to the playoffs last year. Let's see how Moulson does without him. He saved Brad Boyes' career FFS. Hall is very far behind him as a player and as a leader.

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10-30-2013, 04:19 PM
  #825
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Good argument. Have you taken the LSAT yet?
How is that any worse than your argument?


OK, here goes:



Crosby

lots of guys

Tavares

nobody

Hall


Better?

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