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Vincent Lecavalier would have been a HHOFer if.............

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10-27-2013, 11:51 AM
  #1
Big Phil
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Vincent Lecavalier would have been a HHOFer if.............

Finish the sentence.

I think he had all the tools to be an all-time great to be honest.

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10-27-2013, 11:59 AM
  #2
Sticks and Pucks
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If he didn't let the hype and pressure get to him. IIRC he was dubbed as the next Michael Jordan and he struggled in his first few seasons and was named captain whereas his buddy Brad Richards didn't exactly have to play under that type of pressure. I think if he was just allowed to play without thinking about the pressure his progress wouldn't have stagnated in those early years.

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10-27-2013, 12:00 PM
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eddytheeagle20
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he don't have the injury problems he did starting in 2009

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10-27-2013, 12:01 PM
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Stammer Time
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Matt Cooke didn't exist.

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10-27-2013, 12:09 PM
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BraveCanadian
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Originally Posted by Bish please View Post
Matt Cooke didn't exist.
Bingo

That and he would have benefited from playing in a good organization at the start of his career.

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10-27-2013, 12:10 PM
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Sticks and Pucks
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he don't have the injury problems he did starting in 2009
I'm not sure he makes it even if he didn't have the injury problems. He wasn't going to improve his game at that point and I think that that's what's needed for him to make it into the Hall of Fame. Before the injury, all Lecavalier achieved was a Rocket Richard and a World Cup MVP. No scoring titles or Hart Trophies. I don't think Lecavalier's accomplishments before the injury was enough to warrant Hall of Fame consideration. However, I think if he kept improving in his early days, he may have hit a higher ceiling than he eventually did.

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10-27-2013, 12:14 PM
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Big Phil
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I can't find the Cooke hit on Lecavalier on Youtube. Can anybody?

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10-27-2013, 12:18 PM
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seventieslord
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If he had maintained his pace to start 2007-08.

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10-27-2013, 12:31 PM
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Stephen
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Originally Posted by FirstOverallLine View Post
I'm not sure he makes it even if he didn't have the injury problems. He wasn't going to improve his game at that point and I think that that's what's needed for him to make it into the Hall of Fame. Before the injury, all Lecavalier achieved was a Rocket Richard and a World Cup MVP. No scoring titles or Hart Trophies. I don't think Lecavalier's accomplishments before the injury was enough to warrant Hall of Fame consideration. However, I think if he kept improving in his early days, he may have hit a higher ceiling than he eventually did.
Nothing wrong with Lecavalier's ceiling at all, problem was it took him forever to get to his peak and he quickly slipped off of that.

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10-27-2013, 12:35 PM
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mrhockey193195
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Interesting question, since Lecavalier's generation of forwards (early 2000s) is one of the weakest in memory. Thornton, St. Louis, Marleau, Hossa, Naslund, Alfredsson, etc. You'd figure that it would have been an easier era to separate yourself from the pack, but Vinny just never found a way to do it.

That being said, I hesitate to call his career a disappointment - he's accomplished what most players can only dream of (Stanley Cup, Richard, should get to 1000 points, etc.). And I agree that the hype and expectations are what give the illusion that his career wasn't "successful".

That being said, he never had the consistency or the sustained elite play to be a HOFer. I wonder how much better his HOF chances would be if the 04-05 lockout never happened.

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10-27-2013, 12:48 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
If he had maintained his pace to start 2007-08.
Exactly. 66 points in the first 43 games before (I think) injuring his shoulder and slowing down. Surgery in the offseason, never the same

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10-27-2013, 01:02 PM
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LightningStrikes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I can't find the Cooke hit on Lecavalier on Youtube. Can anybody?
Around 1:40:


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10-27-2013, 01:16 PM
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the edler
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If he played better hockey?

He's only got two seasons when he was a top category player.

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10-27-2013, 01:33 PM
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seventieslord
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Exactly. 66 points in the first 43 games before (I think) injuring his shoulder and slowing down. Surgery in the offseason, never the same
Yep, a goal title followed by an art Ross and solid compiling from age 20 to 36 would have done it, I think.

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10-27-2013, 01:45 PM
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...if he'd managed the same numbers and accomplishments, slightly augmented by better health, but in situations where he wasn't outperformed by at least one, and sometimes two, three, even four players on his own team.

i think that's the big thing-- how much weight can you put on the rocket when MSL has been directly responsible for two other rockets that weren't lecavalier's? and the cup-- you'd put him behind richards, MSL, and khabibulin for sure. but then rusty fedotenko? boyle? modin? how much credit should lecavalier really get there?

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10-27-2013, 02:25 PM
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Sticks and Pucks
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Nothing wrong with Lecavalier's ceiling at all, problem was it took him forever to get to his peak and he quickly slipped off of that.
I think Lecavalier was expected to outperform Thornton when they were both in their primes. Instead, the most we can say is that Lecavalier was equal to Thornton in his prime. I really think if Lecavalier had panned out early in his career as expected he could have won a couple Art Ross Trophies. The 02-03 and 03-04 seasons were wide open. Especially 03-04 when his teammate Martin St. Louis ended up winning the Art Ross AND Hart Trophies. If Lecavalier hadn't taken forever to hit his peak, he could have been the guy who won both those trophies that year and then we would be talking about a potential Hall of Fame guy.

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10-27-2013, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Around 1:40:

Alright there it is. You know, I know Cooke is a popular target and don't get me wrong before his transformation he certainly had some dirty hits, but I always thought the hit on Lecavalier wasn't as dirty as people make it out to be. It was a shoulder to shoulder check. It is true that it doesn't appear that Lecavalier touches the puck. But it was face to face, Lecavalier braced himself for the hit and to Cooke's credit it was one of those plays where Lecavalier probably should have touched the puck before the hit, and seemed like he was expected to. Just my thought.

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10-27-2013, 11:00 PM
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Evincar
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For just some reason he wasnt the same after the shoulder injury.

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10-27-2013, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Finish the sentence.

I think he had all the tools to be an all-time great to be honest.
if he had played in a hockey market for his career

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10-28-2013, 12:32 AM
  #20
Terry Yake
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if he had peaked earlier for sure

and i don't think the pressure that was on him helped either. from being called the "michael jordan of hockey" to being named captain at such a young age. that's a lot of pressure on a teenager. he's far from a draft bust or anything like that but his career is one of those with a lot of what ifs

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10-28-2013, 01:13 AM
  #21
Hardyvan123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Finish the sentence.

I think he had all the tools to be an all-time great to be honest.
If he had a slightly better career, as it is he wasn't too far off really.

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10-28-2013, 04:25 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Alright there it is. You know, I know Cooke is a popular target and don't get me wrong before his transformation he certainly had some dirty hits, but I always thought the hit on Lecavalier wasn't as dirty as people make it out to be. It was a shoulder to shoulder check. It is true that it doesn't appear that Lecavalier touches the puck. But it was face to face, Lecavalier braced himself for the hit and to Cooke's credit it was one of those plays where Lecavalier probably should have touched the puck before the hit, and seemed like he was expected to. Just my thought.
Even as a Caps fan I hated having Cooke. He was invisible against the Flyers in 2008. He didn't do jack when Upshall and Briere were running around. Made me sick when he got the cup in Pittsburgh the next year.

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