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Why is a guy named Frans Nielsen outscoring John Tavares?

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Old
11-03-2013, 07:41 PM
  #276
StrongIslanders90
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Originally Posted by Filthy Phil View Post
John Tavares, the best PPG player to never have a PPG season
this even made me laugh, well done...

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Old
11-03-2013, 07:42 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
How many players that hit those numbers, didn't have an all star caliber team mate? Even the year Giroux did it, Hartnell scored 37 goals and was an all star.
Your logic is that if you don't have an allstar teammate you can't hit 90 points. Crosby has scored 120 with Malkin scoring 87. Malkin scored 109 while Crosby played less than 30 games. Stamkos had 60 goals, 97 points while St. Louis had 74. Ovechkin scored 65 goals with his Backstrom scoring 69 points. Henrik Sedin scored 112 points when he won the Art Ross. Daniel had 85. Gretzky and Lemieux out scored their teammates like crazy, and Jagr had good margins too. So yeah it does happen a lot

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11-03-2013, 07:44 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Has Giroux even scored 30 goals? Kind of tough making an argument for him when Tavares matched his best in a half season. Spin that any way you like.
Giroux was never touted to be an good goal scorer unlike Tavares who had 40-50 goal projections since Jr's, so what's your point? Let me guess, Tavares is better than prime Thornton too? Thornton never scored more than 29 goals, shame those 125 points don't mean squat when you can't get 30+ goals a season amm I right?

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11-03-2013, 07:46 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
How far down the list do we have to go, before lack of a supporting cast can actually start having an effect?
I hate the term "supporting cast" because so many fans tend to look at a player's overall body of work rather than the individual's skill-set. Mike Knuble would be the perfect example. He worked out extremely well with Peter Forsberg and Simon Gagne, and yet gets no credit for his contributions, whereas a player like Thomas Vanek gets all the credit in the world based on some of the seasons he had in Buffalo. Talent does not necessarily beget success. Chemistry does, although it is far less predictable.

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11-03-2013, 07:46 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
How many players that hit those numbers, didn't have an all star caliber team mate? Even the year Giroux did it, Hartnell scored 37 goals and was an all star.
Giroux outscores All-Star goal scorer Scott Hartnell by 26 points in 2012, Captain Jesus John Tavares can't outscore Matt Moulson by more than 12?

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11-03-2013, 07:48 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
If the season keeps going this way-I agree with you 100%. But it's still just a month into the season, not ready to say Stamkos > MSL just yet.
Stamkos was also significantly better than MSL in 2012 also, in case you forgot....

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11-03-2013, 07:49 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by RMimagery View Post
Dude, i think you are broken. If that's your rebuttal, you have zero argument.

You said this right, after 14 games?

When he is as good as people say, he should be leading his team in scoring, bc he certainly doesn't have a Crosby or St. Louis on his team

I asked earlier but not directly - How old are you with these very intelligent musings?
When did you ask that?

15

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Old
11-03-2013, 07:56 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
Yes Cheechoo was at one point a 50 goal scorer, what are you arguing? He scored 50 goals, yes he was a 50 goal scorer, Tavares has never scored PPG through a full season, so no, he has not yet had a PPG season.

Sure Tavares is PPG right now, if you want to use that sample size, there are currently 41 PPG players, so it's not as if he's doing anything special.
Tavares is ppg player over the last 145 games, get over it already.

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11-03-2013, 07:57 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Has Giroux even scored 30 goals? Kind of tough making an argument for him when Tavares matched his best in a half season. Spin that any way you like.
Thornton's Art Ross season, he scored 29 goals and Cheechoo scored 50. Who was better that season?

Also people use goals as an argument, but when arguing vs Stamkos they don't matter bc Stamkos has St. Louis. Double standards

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11-03-2013, 07:58 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by bigbuffalo313 View Post
When did you ask that?

15
Earlier today but you weren't quoted so I asked again, but your reply just now pretty much answers the question.

edit: Oh so you hid the 15 in white which I couldn't see until I quoted you.

That's the most clever thing you've typed all weekend.

I'll ease up on you but I knew you were a teenager. Absorb more hockey and enjoy your team who can spend as much as they want. I'm a Stepan and Callahan fan as I love USA hockey. I didn't start a thread or even comment "why did it take Stepan 13 games to score a goal?!" It's a long season. I was raised on watching one of the best teams in history when I was a kid. Started right before USA Olympic gold to 4 cups and 19 playoff series victories in a row - will never happen again.

Last thought from me. All you detractors get on us Isle fans on Tavares. We're not creating threads left and right like "Look at what Tavares just did" like so many other fans. Jealous types start threads trying to cut him down and a small percentage of us defend him. He's one of the brightest rising stars in the league. That cannot be denied.


Last edited by RMimagery: 11-03-2013 at 08:07 PM.
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11-03-2013, 07:58 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by bigbuffalo313 View Post
Your logic is that if you don't have an allstar teammate you can't hit 90 points. Crosby has scored 120 with Malkin scoring 87. Malkin scored 109 while Crosby played less than 30 games.
Was Malkin not one of the best players in the world at that time? Probably second best.... only to Crosby?

Quote:
Stamkos had 60 goals, 97 points while St. Louis had 74.
And StLouis was an all star... 1st team the year prior. And the next time Tavares has a team mate score 74 points will be the first. But, again.... one of the top 4 players that aren't in dispute here.

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Ovechkin scored 65 goals with his Backstrom scoring 69 points.
He also had Semin and Green helping him out.... but again, another one of the top 4 that aren't in dispute here.

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Henrik Sedin scored 112 points when he won the Art Ross. Daniel had 85.
Both all stars, Daniel would win the Art Ross shortly after. Again, your argument here is pretty awful.

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Gretzky and Lemieux out scored their teammates like crazy, and Jagr had good margins too. So yeah it does happen a lot
You're talking about two guys that are among the top few players.... EVER.

Don't bother replying, you're on ignore.... wasting my time.

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11-03-2013, 08:01 PM
  #287
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Peace, I'm out of this discussion. Clearly there are many here that just flat out hate the kid. Plainly obvious

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11-03-2013, 08:02 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Has Giroux even scored 30 goals? Kind of tough making an argument for him when Tavares matched his best in a half season. Spin that any way you like.
WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tavares is a better goalscorer. Giroux is a better playmaker. SO WHAT.

Tavares has not beaten Giroux in points in a season since 2009-2010. FACT.

Giroux HAS put up a 99 point pace season...18 points better than Tavares' best season!!

Tavares BEST PACED SEASON, would be Giroux's 3rd best season!

I like Tavares, but again, PROVE IT FIRST.

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11-03-2013, 08:02 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by RMimagery View Post
Tavares is ppg player over the last 145 games, get over it already.
I forgot seasons were 145 games long sorry.

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11-03-2013, 08:03 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Peace, I'm out of this discussion. Clearly there are many here that just flat out hate the kid. Plainly obvious
Don't overrate him =/= hate him, see ya.

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11-03-2013, 08:04 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Peace, I'm out of this discussion. Clearly there are many here that just flat out hate the kid. Plainly obvious
Clearly. Once again, no one hates Tavares. I think he's a damn good hockey player, a great player who is almost elite. It's his fanboys that make it ridiculous. Whether by implication or not, your arguments make excuses for the fact that he hasn't produced as much as the elite players in the league, while insisting that he belongs in the discussion with them. Excuses are for losers. If Tavares is one of the league's elite, he will show it. To date he has not.

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11-03-2013, 08:08 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Clearly. Once again, no one hates Tavares. I think he's a damn good hockey player, a great player who is almost elite. It's his fanboys that make it ridiculous. Whether by implication or not, your arguments make excuses for the fact that he hasn't produced as much as the elite players in the league, while insisting that he belongs in the discussion with them. Excuses are for losers. If Tavares is one of the league's elite, he will show it. To date he has not.
Careful, some people view a non-biased perspective as "hate".

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11-03-2013, 08:09 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by RMimagery View Post
Tavares is ppg player over the last 145 games, get over it already.
yet over the last 144 games, he is not...143 points

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11-03-2013, 08:09 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Peace, I'm out of this discussion. Clearly there are many here that just flat out hate the kid. Plainly obvious
Wait, so if you think a player is overrated, it means you hate them?

Damn, I must hate a lot of players then.

I don't think anyone hates Tavares, they just disagree with how highly he's rated when he hasn't done much to be held in that high of regard. People talk about him like he's a 100+ point player, when he's merely a ~PPG player. If he was as good as people on here say, there would be no need for the millions of excuses that people give as to why he hasn't put up those numbers.

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11-03-2013, 08:12 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by sky04 View Post
lol at using the goals argument to try and prove Tavares is better than Giroux.

Just because he finished 16th in points, I guess you guys will try anything. So, if Tavares finished top-10 in points this year, but not top-10 in goals, you guys will be arguing that goals and assists are the same right?
This is the worst time to be arguing Giroux > Tavares. Giroux has been having an awful year. Easily the worst of his career. Tavares has more assists than Giroux has points. He has more than double the points as Giroux as well....Giroux really needs to turn it around and quickly. It's not like he's been playing well and just not getting the bounces.

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11-03-2013, 08:14 PM
  #296
RMimagery
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tavares is a better goalscorer. Giroux is a better playmaker. SO WHAT.

Tavares has not beaten Giroux in points in a season since 2009-2010. FACT.

Giroux HAS put up a 99 point pace season...18 points better than Tavares' best season!!

Tavares BEST PACED SEASON, would be Giroux's 3rd best season!

I like Tavares, but again, PROVE IT FIRST.
Would you like to wager who gets more points this season, hmmmm?

I'll even spot you 10.

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11-03-2013, 08:15 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by RMimagery View Post
Last thought from me. All you detractors get on us Isle fans on Tavares. We're not creating threads left and right like "Look at what Tavares just did" like so many other fans. Jealous types start threads trying to cut him down and a small percentage of us defend him. He's one of the brightest rising stars in the league. That cannot be denied.
I agree there are to many threads about him that lead to the arguments. It is just like Crosby, to much of him makes the "haters" annoyed

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11-03-2013, 08:15 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tavares is a better goalscorer. Giroux is a better playmaker. SO WHAT.

Tavares has not beaten Giroux in points in a season since 2009-2010. FACT.

Giroux HAS put up a 99 point pace season...18 points better than Tavares' best season!!

Tavares BEST PACED SEASON, would be Giroux's 3rd best season!

I like Tavares, but again, PROVE IT FIRST.
Giroux is currently on pace to have 38 points...worse than any season Tavares has ever put up (including last year's lockout).

My point? Projections don't really mean anything.

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11-03-2013, 08:17 PM
  #299
bigbuffalo313
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Originally Posted by Jester9881 View Post
Peace, I'm out of this discussion. Clearly there are many here that just flat out hate the kid. Plainly obvious
I don't hate him, I hate the way he is talked about

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11-03-2013, 08:18 PM
  #300
RMimagery
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Originally Posted by bigbuffalo313 View Post
I agree there are to many threads about him that lead to the arguments. It is just like Crosby, to much of him makes the "haters" annoyed
Again, we're not the ones starting threads!

You're prob a good kid. I'm done arguing with you. Glad you love hockey. Peace.

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