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Why is a guy named Frans Nielsen outscoring John Tavares?

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Old
10-26-2013, 03:39 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
And again re: Sample Size, other than Stamkos, who had superior supporting personnel, WHO IN THE PLAYERS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT is as young as Tavares with his resume? You are being absurd.
Players who have done greater things than Tavares at his age : Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos.

Players who, at the age of Tavares (give or take a year), had accomplished similar results : Hall, Giroux, Zetterberg, Getzlaf, Eberle, Kane, Toews, Kessel, Backstrom, Kopitar, Spezza, and the list goes on.

Players Tavares is currently being boxed with : Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos.

And I'm the one being absurd? Tavares has upside out the wazoo, but for the moment there's no reason to claim that he's "top 5 player in the world", it's way too foggy after the big 4 (3 if you want to discredit Malkin) to come to that sort of conclusion. Players don't always pan out for the best, some stagnate and some crash, give him time and please for the love of god stop comparing him with people who, for the moment, are out of his league.

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10-26-2013, 03:50 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Tyrus View Post
Players who have done greater things than Tavares at his age : Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos.

Players who, at the age of Tavares (give or take a year), had accomplished similar results : Hall, Giroux, Zetterberg, Getzlaf, Eberle, Kane, Toews, Kessel, Backstrom, Kopitar, Spezza, and the list goes on.

Players Tavares is currently being boxed with : Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos.

And I'm the one being absurd? Tavares has upside out the wazoo, but for the moment there's no reason to claim that he's "top 5 player in the world", it's way too foggy after the big 4 (3 if you want to discredit Malkin) to come to that sort of conclusion. Players don't always pan out for the best, some stagnate and some crash, give him time and please for the love of god stop comparing him with people who, for the moment, are out of his league.
NOBODY SAYS THESE THINGS. Nobody says he is better than any of those 4 to my knowledge. At least not Islander fans. What Islander fans argue, astutely, is that at his CONTRACT and AGE and HEALTH, there's nobody they'd rather have as the face of their franchise. Why this is hard for people to grasp is beyond me.

That's the argument. That he, as he is, growing pains and all, is the best player for THIS franchise of all the other players they could have right now.

Not that he's the best player. Nobody says that, exception being haters who say thats what Isles fans say to make us look bad.

And then we get into the stupid 'generational' and 'elite' arguments, like there's some way a player, by your own admission, who is in contention for 5th best out of 1200 professional active players is somehow not ELITE.

These are the stupid arguments we have. He's elite by the very simple definition I just made above, and he's the best player for our situation we could ask for. That's it. Anyone claiming anything beyond that is reaching, and anyone saying they are tired of Isles fans saying anything beyond that (when we don't) has an agenda.

Please tell me if any of that needs expanding or further explanation, otherwise I'm done. Thank You for your time.


This is what I get for clicking on a thread that could alternatively be titled 'OMG Tavares only has 12 points in 10 games' or 'who the hell is Frans Nielsen' both of which statements show astonishing ignorance.

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Old
10-26-2013, 03:57 PM
  #103
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Frans Neilsen has been around for a while and is an excellent two way player, its just finally showing offensively. Obviously I don't think he will continue to outscore Tavares but its not like he is an unknown commodity...

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10-26-2013, 04:00 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
NOBODY SAYS THESE THINGS. Nobody says he is better than any of those 4 to my knowledge. At least not Islander fans. What Islander fans argue, astutely, is that at his CONTRACT and AGE and HEALTH, there's nobody they'd rather have as the face of their franchise. Why this is hard for people to grasp is beyond me.

That's the argument. That he, as he is, growing pains and all, is the best player for THIS franchise of all the other players they could have right now.

Not that he's the best player. Nobody says that, exception being haters who say thats what Isles fans say to make us look bad.

And then we get into the stupid 'generational' and 'elite' arguments, like there's some way a player, by your own admission, who is in contention for 5th best out of 1200 professional active players is somehow not ELITE.

These are the stupid arguments we have. He's elite by the very simple definition I just made above, and he's the best player for our situation we could ask for. That's it. Anyone claiming anything beyond that is reaching, and anyone saying they are tired of Isles fans saying anything beyond that (when we don't) has an agenda.

Please tell me if any of that needs expanding or further explanation, otherwise I'm done. Thank You for your time.


This is what I get for clicking on a thread that could alternatively be titled 'OMG Tavares only has 12 points in 10 games' or 'who the hell is Frans Nielsen' both of which statements show astonishing ignorance.
Could not agree more Rose. Something tells me that every time Tavares name comes up, we as Isles fans are going to hear the nay-Sayers. I simply enjoy watching the "kid". What is scary is Tavares is producing this year even though he has yet to hit a hot spell. This might be further proof of his game evolving.

As for the "who is Frans" type posts, as an Isles fan I only hope to keep seeing different Islanders players put to the spotlight.....

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10-26-2013, 04:06 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by bobbob View Post
Is he? One point below ppg in each of the last two seasons. And his FO% has dropped since 2011/12.
Yes he is, as I said since the start of '11/'12. 12 points in 10 games this year. And he really hasn't hit his stride yet.

FO%, oh no.

Most don't realize he's barely 23 when comparing him to guys who are 26, 28 etc...

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Old
10-26-2013, 04:12 PM
  #106
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Tavares drives me nuts because of his streakiness. You can always sense when he's is about to go off because he has a game where he is suddenly very noticeable after he's been quiet for say 5-6 games, he won't necessarily crack the scoresheet but he's seemingly getting tons of shots and is involved in alot of the play...usually right after he has a game like that he explodes for the next week or two putting up 2-3 point games almost every night out, then he vanishes again.

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10-26-2013, 04:16 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BMOK33 View Post
Tavares drives me nuts because of his streakiness. You can always sense when he's is about to go off because he has a game where he is suddenly very noticeable after he's been quiet for say 5-6 games, he won't necessarily crack the scoresheet but he's seemingly getting tons of shots and is involved in alot of the play...usually right after he has a game like that he explodes for the next week or two putting up 2-3 point games almost every night out, then he vanishes again.
The difference so far this year is he is getting a point a game without the hot streak. He is riding a 9 game point streak right now. If he gets on his 10-15 game tear, this board might explode! That was the point of my last point, if he takes that step and produces when he is not in a streak......

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Old
10-26-2013, 06:40 PM
  #108
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Tavares is shooting 12.9%, where his career average is 12.8%. Nielsen is shooting 26.1%, where his career average is 9.8%. Nielsen's on-ice even strength shooting percentage is also a sky high 16.98% while Tavares is a normal 7.35%. This goes along with common sense, where Tavares is producing well but not going completely bonkers whereas Nielsen, while definitely an emerging player offensively, is probably having one of the better streaks of luck he'll ever have.

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10-27-2013, 01:17 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Tyrus View Post
It's mostly people considering John Tavares for what he has showed to be, a near/PPG player, versus what Isles fans keep trying to ram into people's head, that he's on par with player who posted 100+ points seasons or 50+ goals ones.

I mean come on, this is a joke thread, of course people are going to hyperbole. Jesus.
This. A hundred times!

It's so strange that every time someone don't agree with the label on a other persons favorite player they are hating. Sometimes, they are just being realistic.

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10-27-2013, 01:19 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Beastly Bozak View Post
tavares has tried to model himself as a tyler bozak type center (elite defence/faceoffs while the wingers produce the points). also, its still very early in the season
His first mistake is acknowledging Tyler Bozak.

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10-27-2013, 02:00 PM
  #111
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Nobody can say a bad thing about Tavares in HF. People never learn.

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10-27-2013, 02:02 PM
  #112
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Has the OP seriously never heard of Frans Nielsen? He's the best shootout player in NHL history. He's been on fire this year, and Tavares is on a ten-game point streak.

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10-27-2013, 02:06 PM
  #113
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One more point: Tavares is the G.O.A.T. End of discussion.

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10-27-2013, 02:11 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TampaBolt View Post
One more point: Tavares is the G.O.A.T. End of discussion.
There's only one type of poster that says things anywhere remotely close to that in any of these threads. None of them are Islander fans.

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10-27-2013, 02:35 PM
  #115
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There's only one type of poster that says things anywhere remotely close to that in any of these threads. None of them are Islander fans.
Well to be fair your fanbase tends to use every excuse in the book for Tavares. Obviously he is a great player, but IMO he gets extremely overrated here in HF, Islanders fans or not.

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11-03-2013, 02:40 AM
  #116
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And now Kyle Okposo is outscoring both Frans Nielsen and Tavares. So Tavares is only 3rd in scoring on the Islanders after 17 % of the season.

How long before Tavares takes the number one spot?

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11-03-2013, 02:42 AM
  #117
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Small sample size...but Nielsen is a real good player, I don't see much of the Islanders but in the playoffs last year against the Pens, him, Okposo and Cizikas as well as Hamonic on the blueline were guys I was super impressed with in their speed, hustle, work ethic and two-way play. The Isles are the real deal, especially with Vanek in there, they could really make some noise. The Avs are getting the early hype but the Isles have the same sort of team in a much weaker conference.

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11-03-2013, 03:11 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Tyrus View Post
Players who have done greater things than Tavares at his age : Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos.

Players who, at the age of Tavares (give or take a year), had accomplished similar results : Hall, Giroux, Zetterberg, Getzlaf, Eberle, Kane, Toews, Kessel, Backstrom, Kopitar, Spezza, and the list goes on.

Players Tavares is currently being boxed with : Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos.

And I'm the one being absurd? Tavares has upside out the wazoo, but for the moment there's no reason to claim that he's "top 5 player in the world", it's way too foggy after the big 4 (3 if you want to discredit Malkin) to come to that sort of conclusion. Players don't always pan out for the best, some stagnate and some crash, give him time and please for the love of god stop comparing him with people who, for the moment, are out of his league.
And its pretty obvious you don't watch Tavares play on a regular basis. Point totals aren't purely a measure of ones talent or value to their team. Yes JT is a top talent and Stamkos is as one dimensional as they come. When you say top 4 who are you referring to because Stammer isn't in my top 4. Ovie and Sid are way better.

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11-03-2013, 03:12 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TampaBolt View Post
Well to be fair your fanbase tends to use every excuse in the book for Tavares. Obviously he is a great player, but IMO he gets extremely overrated here in HF, Islanders fans or not.
Stamkos is the most overated player in the NHL

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11-03-2013, 03:15 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Beastly Bozak View Post
tavares has tried to model himself as a tyler bozak type center (elite defence/faceoffs while the wingers produce the points). also, its still very early in the season
What an informative comment from "Beastly Bozak"

I hope you're joking.

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11-03-2013, 03:44 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
And... sample size. Does it mean anything to you or are you going to just regurgitate the same thing over and over again until everyone else goes away?

He's led the team in scoring EVERY season he's been in the league. He will again. I love how you diminish his Hart nomination too, to suit your agenda.

Holy crappola.

And again re: Sample Size, other than Stamkos, who had superior supporting personnel, WHO IN THE PLAYERS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT is as young as Tavares with his resume? You are being absurd.
Toews had a better year at 21 than Tavares and a far better resume. Malkin won a Conn Smythe at 23. Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos were scoring crazy amounts of points at similiar ages while garnering individual accolades superior to being the guy with the 4th most first place Hart votes. The best of the best have better resumes than Tavares, that's why people get angry when every Isles fan insists he's one of the five best players in the league, and if you disagree it means you don't watch the Isles

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11-03-2013, 03:51 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by here come the View Post
Toews had a better year at 21 than Tavares and a far better resume. Malkin won a Conn Smythe at 23. Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos were scoring crazy amounts of points at similiar ages while garnering individual accolades superior to being the guy with the 4th most first place Hart votes. The best of the best have better resumes than Tavares, that's why people get angry when every Isles fan insists he's one of the five best players in the league, and if you disagree it means you don't watch the Isles
Not sure where Toews fits unless ofcourse you are a Hawks fan but Isles fans say top 10 not 5.

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11-03-2013, 03:53 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by RoseTintedVisor View Post
NOBODY SAYS THESE THINGS. Nobody says he is better than any of those 4 to my knowledge. At least not Islander fans. What Islander fans argue, astutely, is that at his CONTRACT and AGE and HEALTH, there's nobody they'd rather have as the face of their franchise. Why this is hard for people to grasp is beyond me.

That's the argument. That he, as he is, growing pains and all, is the best player for THIS franchise of all the other players they could have right now.

Not that he's the best player. Nobody says that, exception being haters who say thats what Isles fans say to make us look bad.

And then we get into the stupid 'generational' and 'elite' arguments, like there's some way a player, by your own admission, who is in contention for 5th best out of 1200 professional active players is somehow not ELITE.

These are the stupid arguments we have. He's elite by the very simple definition I just made above, and he's the best player for our situation we could ask for. That's it. Anyone claiming anything beyond that is reaching, and anyone saying they are tired of Isles fans saying anything beyond that (when we don't) has an agenda.

Please tell me if any of that needs expanding or further explanation, otherwise I'm done. Thank You for your time.


This is what I get for clicking on a thread that could alternatively be titled 'OMG Tavares only has 12 points in 10 games' or 'who the hell is Frans Nielsen' both of which statements show astonishing ignorance.
Ok no "islander fans" say this (which I highly doubt) but what about the rest of HF boards that aren't exactly "islander fans" but still talk Tavares up like he's the 5th best player in the NHL?

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Old
11-03-2013, 04:15 AM
  #124
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Do the Tavares critics get as ******** , when the press touts him as a top 5 -10 talent or is it only when Islander fans say he is ?

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11-03-2013, 04:17 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS View Post
And its pretty obvious you don't watch Tavares play on a regular basis. Point totals aren't purely a measure of ones talent or value to their team. Yes JT is a top talent and Stamkos is as one dimensional as they come. When you say top 4 who are you referring to because Stammer isn't in my top 4. Ovie and Sid are way better.
lol Stamkos one-dimensional, he's a significantly better 2 way forward than Tavares is this year. Stamkos has taken it up another level while Tavares is getting outscored on his own team.


Last edited by Sky04: 11-03-2013 at 04:58 AM.
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