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Lupul + Gardiner for Pavelski + Demers

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Old
10-22-2013, 10:53 PM
  #1
CanadienShark
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Lupul + Gardiner for Pavelski + Demers

Simply put, what are your thoughts on this proposal? I was discussing it with some Leafs fans and it could be decent. It'd be cap neutral, or we might even gain a little space. Gardiner is an upgrade on Demers now and future. Lupul could be a good winger with any of our centres. Basically we get a little more top heavy, but I still like our depth, and get our future PP QB and potential top pairing d-man.

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10-22-2013, 11:00 PM
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10-22-2013, 11:02 PM
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Pavs just signed long-term.

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10-22-2013, 11:03 PM
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Gene Parmesan
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Pavelski is way too important to this team right now. Lupul is a good player but hes injury prone.

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10-22-2013, 11:32 PM
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Jake Gardiner moves like Dan Boyle in his prime. I'd love to add him, but Lupul's injury history might deter me from trading for him when he's signed through 2018. We don't need another broken right winger on the roster (he's been fantastic when healthy, though).

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10-22-2013, 11:36 PM
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SJeasy
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Pavelski is way too important to this team right now. Lupul is a good player but hes injury prone.
In the immortal words of Nancy Reagan, "Just say NO".

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10-22-2013, 11:44 PM
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Gardiner for Hamilton + Demers & 1st round pick in 2014

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10-22-2013, 11:50 PM
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Gene Parmesan
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In the immortal words of Nancy Reagan, "Just say NO".
Exactly.

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10-22-2013, 11:54 PM
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Gardiner may end up being awesome and if he fulfills his potential the value here MIGHT be fair. But that's all it is right now, potential. And it doesn't help that his team basically seems to be trying to get rid of him. If a young player is really all that and a bag of chips constant trade rumors and that stuff doesn't happen. Anyways, Pavelski is proven and could be the #1 C on several teams including the Leafs. Not a chance DW would or should consider this.

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10-22-2013, 11:55 PM
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If you can count on Joffrey Lupul to stay healthy the whole year I'd consider it but Pavs is just a super important player.

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10-23-2013, 12:16 AM
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While driving from work today I was listening to NHL on Sirius and they were talking about Yakupov possibly being setup for a trade.

I would never dare to make a trade proposal on the Trade boards but I am curious what people though about a trade centering Pavs and Yakupov. The reason I thought about Pavs (from our side) is because he is exactly what the Oilers need: a really good 1B/2A two-way center who is under 30 and signed a good long term contract.

I am just wondering about this from a value perspective. We DO NOT have any need for Yakupov and Pavs is way too important for us to have 3 scoring lines.

It would still probably be Pavs+ for Yakupov right?

What do you guys think?

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10-23-2013, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
While driving from work today I was listening to NHL on Sirius and they were talking about Yakupov possibly being setup for a trade.

I would never dare to make a trade proposal on the Trade boards but I am curious what people though about a trade centering Pavs and Yakupov. The reason I thought about Pavs (from our side) is because he is exactly what the Oilers need: a really good 1B/2A two-way center who is under 30 and signed a good long term contract.

I am just wondering about this from a value perspective. We DO NOT have any need for Yakupov and Pavs is way too important for us to have 3 scoring lines.

It would still probably be Pavs+ for Yakupov right?

What do you guys think?
Not enough according to Oiler fans. Anything short of Shea Weber is a lowball offer.

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10-23-2013, 12:24 AM
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Leidi J
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
While driving from work today I was listening to NHL on Sirius and they were talking about Yakupov possibly being setup for a trade.

I would never dare to make a trade proposal on the Trade boards but I am curious what people though about a trade centering Pavs and Yakupov. The reason I thought about Pavs (from our side) is because he is exactly what the Oilers need: a really good 1B/2A two-way center who is under 30 and signed a good long term contract.

I am just wondering about this from a value perspective. We DO NOT have any need for Yakupov and Pavs is way too important for us to have 3 scoring lines.

It would still probably be Pavs+ for Yakupov right?

What do you guys think?
I wouldn't want Yakupov unless we got him for a big discount. I don't like the effort questions or the seeming resistance to taking coaching and unwillingness to change his game. We've seen how much better this team is when everyone buys into the system especially defensively and I wouldn't want that kind of "problem child" so to speak. At least, as I said, not at market price. If we were getting some kind of steal, like a large package of prospects/draft picks/role player types, sure. But Pavs could score 30 goals again this year while playing amazing defense and PKing. Do people really think Yakupov would contribute that much more? Especially immediately, with us trying to win the cup right now? I wouldn't bet on it.

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10-23-2013, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Not enough according to Oiler fans. Anything short of Shea Weber is a lowball offer.
If they want rid of him this quickly I want nothing to do with him.

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10-23-2013, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
While driving from work today I was listening to NHL on Sirius and they were talking about Yakupov possibly being setup for a trade.

I would never dare to make a trade proposal on the Trade boards but I am curious what people though about a trade centering Pavs and Yakupov. The reason I thought about Pavs (from our side) is because he is exactly what the Oilers need: a really good 1B/2A two-way center who is under 30 and signed a good long term contract.

I am just wondering about this from a value perspective. We DO NOT have any need for Yakupov and Pavs is way too important for us to have 3 scoring lines.

It would still probably be Pavs+ for Yakupov right?

What do you guys think?
I wish all of you would cut the Pavs for a winger stuff. Pavs eats 20min or more a night some of it hard minutes on PK. He is a top 20 forward PKer. He produces at the high end of second line centers on the scoresheet. Find another guy who has as proven a track record in the playoffs. Pavs carried the team for 2 series which is no mean feat. And Pavs does not have a dropoff from reg season in playoff scoring (an attribute that is rare as hen's teeth). That brings his trade value to that of a #1 center or #1 dman in his prime. Whoever you propose better be stellar on PK and stellar on playoff scoring and proven. Yakupov, Gardiner and Lupul aren't even in the ballpark.

We have gone over the proofs on the Sharks issues in the playoffs when they fail, lack of scoring. Yet, you (plural) propose that we unload the one guy who is stellar in that regard. What are you thinking?

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10-23-2013, 12:28 AM
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If they want rid of him this quickly I want nothing to do with him.
From what I heard on radio, it is more of a fit thing. They have been playing him on the 3rd line with players that do not compliment his skill-set at all. He is essentially a spare part right now. Plus the Oilers are stacked on Wingers. They need good Centers, defensemen and a goalie.

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10-23-2013, 12:28 AM
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Lupul sucks and Gardiner is a bust. Pass.

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10-23-2013, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
I wish all of you would cut the Pavs for a winger stuff. Pavs eats 20min or more a night some of it hard minutes on PK. He is a top 20 forward PKer. He produces at the high end of second line centers on the scoresheet. Find another guy who has as proven a track record in the playoffs. Pavs carried the team for 2 series which is no mean feat. And Pavs does not have a dropoff from reg season in playoff scoring (an attribute that is rare as hen's teeth). That brings his trade value to that of a #1 center or #1 dman in his prime. Whoever you propose better be stellar on PK and stellar on playoff scoring and proven. Yakupov, Gardiner and Lupul aren't even in the ballpark.

We have gone over the proofs on the Sharks issues in the playoffs when they fail, lack of scoring. Yet, you (plural) propose that we unload the one guy who is stellar in that regard. What are you thinking?
I hope that was not addressed to me.

If you look at my post I was asking this purely from a value perspective. I mentioned in the post itself that Pavs is much more valuable to us to keep our 3 scoring lines going and that Yakupov is not really needed for our team.

I am more interested in this to understand trade value. Is this a bad value, good value, etc. And what pieces would be required to actually make the trade. Again .. I am not advocating the trade. Just trying to gauge perceived value of players.

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10-23-2013, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
I hope that was not addressed to me.

If you look at my post I was asking this purely from a value perspective. I mentioned in the post itself that Pavs is much more valuable to us to keep our 3 scoring lines going and that Yakupov is not really needed for our team.

I am more interested in this to understand trade value. Is this a bad value, good value, etc. And what pieces would be required to actually make the trade. Again .. I am not advocating the trade. Just trying to gauge perceived value of players.
I wasn't sure on your meaning, but the "you" was addressed to several on this board who keep hopping on the trade Pavs bandwagon. You apparently are with the "in" crowd on 3rd line scoring being essential for playoff success. A successful third line is very, very hard to achieve and should not be thrown away lightly.

I tried to give the value. Guys like Suter, Weber, Pietrangelo. Guys like Kopitar. In terms of wings, a younger Alfie, a younger Hossa, etc. That is rarified air. If you wanted a near equate for Pavs, Bergeron, which would be a very sideways trade. Bergeron has marginally better value for defense and skating speed.

Additionally, I forgot one other positive Pavs attribute. He has been used in a shutdown center role successfully. Again, rarified air.

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10-23-2013, 12:51 AM
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Pavs is basically pulling a Thornton on that third line.

A rookie and a winger with like 80 nhl games and he has them producing. I can't wait to look at underlying stats after about 40 games to see how he's affecting goal scoring for his line mates.

Defensively it's the same. Is his line sheltered really? I need to look.

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10-23-2013, 12:57 AM
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God no. Lupul is the worst defensive forward in the league in my opinion. I would love to acquire Gardiner for Demers + or something but there is no way in hell I move Pavs.

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10-23-2013, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
Pavs is basically pulling a Thornton on that third line.

A rookie and a winger with like 80 nhl games and he has them producing. I can't wait to look at underlying stats after about 40 games to see how he's affecting goal scoring for his line mates.

Defensively it's the same. Is his line sheltered really? I need to look.
Right now, Pavs line is sheltered. When Hertl went on his tear, the opposition threw their top d against JT. We have to wait and see how long that lasts and what TM does over the next stretch of home games when TM has the matchup advantage.

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10-23-2013, 01:03 AM
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God no. Lupul is the worst defensive forward in the league in my opinion. I would love to acquire Gardiner for Demers + or something but there is no way in hell I move Pavs.
Plus Lupul is about as durable as Havlat.

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10-23-2013, 01:04 AM
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God no. Lupul is the worst defensive forward in the league in my opinion. I would love to acquire Gardiner for Demers + or something but there is no way in hell I move Pavs.
Blashphemy.

As far as the deal is concerend, I'll reluctantly say yes. I'm a huge Pavelski fan, and feel that adding his two-way element will really improve us.

I'd actually cream my pants seeing a potential Team USA line of JVR - Pavs - Kessel on my Leafs.

Gardiner oozes potential and is a surefire future top 4 D-man capable of QB'ing a PP. Lupul has been rejuvenated in Toronto and is one of our most important players. His defensive play is way overblown. Toronto is a pretty nitpicking city when it comes to players. Trust me, we'll notice when someone is horrible at D.

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10-23-2013, 01:07 AM
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All such suggestions seem to fit into the category of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". The Sharks have a good room, a great mix of sage veterans and youthful exuberance and good leadership (was nice to see the "A" on Couture the other day) on and off the ice, so to make significant chances would be foolhardy at best. If the wheels fall off mid-season, it might make sense for DW to go shopping, but as of now, its hard to imagine any deal that would make us significantly better in our top 9/4 that wouldn't also likely cause at least as many problems as it would be intended to solve.

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