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Roster Move Coming - Vey + Toffoli Recalled, Ellerby on Waivers

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Old
10-30-2013, 08:00 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Vic Vinegar View Post
Why is that? Lombardi has fired Sutter before.
DL is very stubborn to change and the same reason he hired Sutter again says that his hand was forced.

DL will go first. Let's make a bet lol.

Plus I don't know how much longer DL would want to be GM. When he offered Hextall GM position I thought it was pretty telling.

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10-30-2013, 08:14 PM
  #252
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I think we have to come to realize we are not a regular season team. We will lose as much as we win but just a bit tad more on the winning side. Our style of play doesn't take advantage of our strengths and other teams weaknesses. To get us over the hump on most nights we would need our best players to be the best players.

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10-30-2013, 08:14 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
DL is very stubborn to change and the same reason he hired Sutter again says that his hand was forced.

DL will go first. Let's make a bet lol.

Plus I don't know how much longer DL would want to be GM. When he offered Hextall GM position I thought it was pretty telling.
Wanna bet that Luc becomes the next GM?

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10-30-2013, 08:21 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by MynameisKing View Post
I think we have to come to realize we are not a regular season team. We will lose as much as we win but just a bit tad more on the winning side. Our style of play doesn't take advantage of our strengths and other teams weaknesses. To get us over the hump on most nights we would need our best players to be the best players.
You see, this is the problem. I simply can't accept that and I think that is the wrong way to build a franchise. If this team is "built for the playoffs and not the regular season," then we should consistently at least reach the SCF. But guess what, we got our ***** kicked in the WCF last year. Yes, reaching the WCF is considered "going deep in the playoffs." But the WCF is the same playoff series that the so-called regular season team Sharks have reached twice since the 04-05 lockout (same as the Kings).

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10-30-2013, 08:26 PM
  #255
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The team really needs some speed, creativity, scoring, and youth. Some of the guys in Manchester need to be promoted.

The hard part is the team isn't scoring much, but unlike 2012 season, Quick and the defense is giving up more than 1-2 goals a night. The Penalty kill is also killing the team.

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10-30-2013, 08:31 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by MynameisKing View Post
I think we have to come to realize we are not a regular season team. We will lose as much as we win but just a bit tad more on the winning side. Our style of play doesn't take advantage of our strengths and other teams weaknesses. To get us over the hump on most nights we would need our best players to be the best players.
Going deep in playoffs without home ice or a high seed is an aberration not the rule.

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10-30-2013, 08:34 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
DL is very stubborn to change and the same reason he hired Sutter again says that his hand was forced.

DL will go first. Let's make a bet lol.

Plus I don't know how much longer DL would want to be GM. When he offered Hextall GM position I thought it was pretty telling.
Source? A lot of teams these days use a couple of guys as decision makers anyways. President, GM, and possible others. Colorado does with Sherman, Sakic and Roy. Calgary does with Burke, Feaster. Toronto I think was somewhat the same while Burke was there with Nonis. St. Louis used to with Davidson and Armstrong (and Pleau before that), now you have it in Columbus with Davidson and Kekalainen. I would not be totally surprised if Lombardi was willing to take over as President and let Hextall have the GM title. Anyways I'd still like to see the source.

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Wanna bet that Luc becomes the next GM?
I hope not. I hope not Blake either. I just don't think it's necessarily a good idea to give a GM job to a former great based on their playing credentials.

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10-30-2013, 08:45 PM
  #258
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Guys! Come on this is hockey! Hockey for goodness sake. We're 7-3 in the last 10. That over 80 games is 114 pts! That's more then any team in years. You just got to deal with loses. It's going to happen. Bad teams win, good teams lose, after 82 games you find out if they mattered.

You've got to calm down. This is why the flyers became one of the worst teams in the league. Make it to the Cup Finals. Lose. Panic, run around, scream, dump everyone and go for a Hail Mary pass. Doesn't work and they're out of the playoffs worse then what they started.

Players are going to come and go. Good years and bad. Doesn't change we've got a good 4-5 years of being a contender with what we've got right now... After.. Well... No idea. Now we are in the game. So enjoy.

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10-30-2013, 08:48 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Rafa Nadal View Post
You see, this is the problem. I simply can't accept that and I think that is the wrong way to build a franchise. If this team is "built for the playoffs and not the regular season," then we should consistently at least reach the SCF. But guess what, we got our ***** kicked in the WCF last year. Yes, reaching the WCF is considered "going deep in the playoffs." But the WCF is the same playoff series that the so-called regular season team Sharks have reached twice since the 04-05 lockout (same as the Kings).
The problem with being built and playing playoff style games is that you get HURT! Especially to your best players. So I said for us to get over the hump on most nights we need our best players to be the best players. It's hard when the best players are either out or less than 100%. We got our ass kicked in the playoffs is because we we're less healthy than the other team and it happened to our key players.

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10-30-2013, 08:56 PM
  #260
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I think to play our way is very hard to do. So what is the solution? To continue how we play I think we need more of a rotation than we do now. Start rotating the defense too while we're at it and get Ellerby in some games, because by the end of the year we're gonna be worn down to a nub if Sutter insists we play as heavy as we do every game!

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10-30-2013, 09:15 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by cheap77 View Post
The team really needs some speed, creativity, scoring, and youth. Some of the guys in Manchester need to be promoted.

The hard part is the team isn't scoring much, but unlike 2012 season, Quick and the defense is giving up more than 1-2 goals a night. The Penalty kill is also killing the team.
This. Honestly, is there another team in the league who chooses to promote younger guys the way we do? If you are skilled in our organization, and young, you have no shot. Only guys who are big, useless, and who get in the way get a shot on our team. What kind of message does it send when we won't promote our best offensive talent, instead opting to build our team with 20 year olds with the talent of Jordan Nolan's, Kyle Clifford's, and Dwight Kings. It almost feels like the twilight zone. If your highly skilled, and young, sit and rot in the AHL, be given no opportunity, and watch your stock get lower and lower until your NHL dream fades away and you become "damaged goods" to the rest of the league. Has to be frustrating I would imagine. The only way to crack our lineup as a young guy is to be a 4th line hands of stone grinder, or a Defenseman. Seems twisted to me. Toffoli, Pearson, Vey, Kozun.. These guys would have been given shakes at almost every other organization, it seems, absent a few. Opportunity and a spark is what our club needs rights now. But nope, let's pay Stoll 4 million a year, and give Nolan, King, and Clifford multi year 1 way contracts. I understand we won the cup with these guys, but I would argue we could have plugged other players in their roles and had the same result, and we would be better off for it right now. We won because our top guys are really high end talent. We have arguably the best goaltender in the league, a top 5 centre, a top 5 dman, a top 5 winger, and multiple Olympians. That is why we kwn the cup, not because of our bottom 6.


Last edited by HockeyCA: 10-30-2013 at 09:22 PM.
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10-30-2013, 09:39 PM
  #262
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This. Honestly, is there another team in the league who chooses to promote younger guys the way we do? If you are skilled in our organization, and young, you have no shot. Only guys who are big, useless, and who get in the way get a shot on our team. What kind of message does it send when we won't promote our best offensive talent, instead opting to build our team with 20 year olds with the talent of Jordan Nolan's, Kyle Clifford's, and Dwight Kings. It almost feels like the twilight zone. If your highly skilled, and young, sit and rot in the AHL, be given no opportunity, and watch your stock get lower and lower until your NHL dream fades away and you become "damaged goods" to the rest of the league. Has to be frustrating I would imagine. The only way to crack our lineup as a young guy is to be a 4th line hands of stone grinder, or a Defenseman. Seems twisted to me. Toffoli, Pearson, Vey, Kozun.. These guys would have been given shakes at almost every other organization, it seems, absent a few. Opportunity and a spark is what our club needs rights now. But nope, let's pay Stoll 4 million a year, and give Nolan, King, and Clifford multi year 1 way contracts. I understand we won the cup with these guys, but I would argue we could have plugged other players in their roles and had the same result, and we would be better off for it right now. We won because our top guys are really high end talent. We have arguably the best goaltender in the league, a top 5 centre, a top 5 dman, a top 5 winger, and multiple Olympians. That is why we kwn the cup, not because of our bottom 6.
Toffoli, Pearson and Vey have had a grand total of one full season of professional hockey. Before it was the Kings were bringing young players along too quickly, now it's they're not bringing them into the NHL soon enough.

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10-30-2013, 10:07 PM
  #263
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Wanna bet that Luc becomes the next GM?
Better never happen.

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10-30-2013, 10:19 PM
  #264
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Wanna bet that Luc becomes the next GM?
Luc is a personality, not a GM

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10-30-2013, 10:25 PM
  #265
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Something needs to happen.

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10-30-2013, 10:25 PM
  #266
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Luc is a personality, not a GM
as long as its not sutter or blake im ok

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10-30-2013, 10:46 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Toffoli, Pearson and Vey have had a grand total of one full season of professional hockey. Before it was the Kings were bringing young players along too quickly, now it's they're not bringing them into the NHL soon enough.

It's just insane. They're like 21.... 2nd year pros.... And what's worse is that one or two are likely to be on the team in a bit. If Toffoli had been a LW he'd be on the team.

It's the internet and its hfboards but we really should slow down the run around and panic. Best two years in franchise history and people can't deal.

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10-30-2013, 11:29 PM
  #268
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It's just insane. They're like 21.... 2nd year pros.... And what's worse is that one or two are likely to be on the team in a bit. If Toffoli had been a LW he'd be on the team.

It's the internet and its hfboards but we really should slow down the run around and panic. Best two years in franchise history and people can't deal.
How's it worse? They can't be any worse than King, Clifford, Stoll, even Lewis to an extent.

If nothing else they would bring some skill and urgency to the team.

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10-31-2013, 12:17 AM
  #269
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Makes you wonder if we are over-managing what we have to create a team that imay be inferior to what we may have if we just objectively played our most skilled guys on lines 1-4, rather than trying to fit certain players into certain boxes predicated upon "skill lines," "hard-working lines," and "grinder lines." Shouldn't we focus on using the best possible lineup, instead of worrying about grinders, physicality, etc. The makeup of our team is such that our best players are big, physical guys who do not shy away from contact, anyways. Richards, Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Brown.. Our team is plenty tough enough. I do not see the reason to have a 4th line consisting of the Jordan Nolans, Kyle Cliffords, and Frasers of the world. We have better players within the organization who bring more to the table, and it puzzles me why there is such hesitation to ice a really high skill lineup.
The one thing I will use to defend the selection of players, is you do need to ice the best line up that fits the coaches sytem. Sutter's style calls for physical guys, which works against youth even more since most aren't physically mature.

That all said, I don't really get what Fraser brings. I'd rather see us plug in a kid into his role, preferably someone whose been in Manchester for a while and deserves a recall, like Cliche did before getting claimed by Colorado. Brandon Kozun would be another one.

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I agree, I think Sutter knows how to get his players on the same page, but he's not good after that. I think people are so into Sutter because we won the cup with him, but honestly, anyone was an improvement over TM, and Sutter isn't that good of an coach.
Pretty terrible post man. He's 20th all-time in wins and should reach 16th by the end of the season (and 500 career wins in the process). This is his 14th NHL season and he's only had a losing record three times. he's made the playoffs ever year but one (not counting the current season) and has reached the semi-finals four times, advancing to the finals twice. He's coached from the ultimate scoring period of the NHL (1992-93 was the season with the most goals per game in NHL history) through to the dead puck era and he's succeeded every time. How in the world is he not a good coach?

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Originally Posted by Rafa Nadal View Post
You see, this is the problem. I simply can't accept that and I think that is the wrong way to build a franchise. If this team is "built for the playoffs and not the regular season," then we should consistently at least reach the SCF. But guess what, we got our ***** kicked in the WCF last year. Yes, reaching the WCF is considered "going deep in the playoffs." But the WCF is the same playoff series that the so-called regular season team Sharks have reached twice since the 04-05 lockout (same as the Kings).
LMFAO. We didn't reach the finals, we only reached the semi-finals. Because yeah, only two teams in the entire 30 team league are built for the playoffs. Everyone else should just fold when they reach the post-season.

Holy unrealistic expectations Batman!

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Originally Posted by Tadite View Post
Guys! Come on this is hockey! Hockey for goodness sake. We're 7-3 in the last 10. That over 80 games is 114 pts! That's more then any team in years. You just got to deal with loses. It's going to happen. Bad teams win, good teams lose, after 82 games you find out if they mattered.

You've got to calm down. This is why the flyers became one of the worst teams in the league. Make it to the Cup Finals. Lose. Panic, run around, scream, dump everyone and go for a Hail Mary pass. Doesn't work and they're out of the playoffs worse then what they started.

Players are going to come and go. Good years and bad. Doesn't change we've got a good 4-5 years of being a contender with what we've got right now... After.. Well... No idea. Now we are in the game. So enjoy.
Quoted for truth. Unreal that this even needs to be said.

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Originally Posted by MynameisKing View Post
The problem with being built and playing playoff style games is that you get HURT! Especially to your best players. So I said for us to get over the hump on most nights we need our best players to be the best players. It's hard when the best players are either out or less than 100%. We got our ass kicked in the playoffs is because we we're less healthy than the other team and it happened to our key players.
Every team gets guys hurt. Pittsburgh plays run and gun and Crosby's missed more games than he's played the past three years IIRC. Inuries are a part of the game, all teams suffer them.

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Originally Posted by Nose of Sutter View Post
How's it worse? They can't be any worse than King, Clifford, Stoll, even Lewis to an extent.

If nothing else they would bring some skill and urgency to the team.
So Vey can lay the body like Clifford? Toffoli can kill penalties like Lewis? Pearson can win faceoffs like Stoll?

It's not all offense, guys that aren't scoring are still in the line up for a reason, and it's not because Sutter's to lazy to recall someone.

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10-31-2013, 12:32 AM
  #270
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Hurt like in "playing hurt" that either takes you out of the game or hinders you. Crosby got injured. Every team gets injuries. I'd bet if you pair our playoff opponents last year we'd had less healthy bodies and were worst off than any of them we played.

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10-31-2013, 12:40 AM
  #271
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I agree with a lot that is being said.. And I am certainly not arguing that the Kings are a bad team right now.. Because they certainly are not. My only point is that I feel the team is being short-sighted. The only way some of the kids are going to take their game to the next level is by playing against NHL competition. I feel it really is not in the best long term interest of the franchise to not start to play our higher skilled guys, while continuing to give opportunity to players who simply do not produce. I find it hard to imagine anyone thinks the organization will be better off 3 years from now by continuing to provide opportunity to lower skilled players, while we have potential studs in the minors. Shouldn't we start to have the conversation of exactly when our higher end talent that's buried in the minors will finally get their shot? It's nauseating to sometimes watch lower level talent continue to get all the opportunity in the world simply because they play a more simple game.. That's my point.

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10-31-2013, 12:54 AM
  #272
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Hurt like in "playing hurt" that either takes you out of the game or hinders you. Crosby got injured. Every team gets injuries. I'd bet if you pair our playoff opponents last year we'd had less healthy bodies and were worst off than any of them we played.
And the long playoff run the year before didn't play into that at all? Every player that's won the cup tells about how long it takes to recover. We played seven playoff rounds in about 12 months, plus 130 regular season games. That puts us at a disadvantage.

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10-31-2013, 01:04 AM
  #273
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And the long playoff run the year before didn't play into that at all? Every player that's won the cup tells about how long it takes to recover. We played seven playoff rounds in about 12 months, plus 130 regular season games. That puts us at a disadvantage.
I'd consider it but last year was a strike shortened season which should of been an advantage, but our style of play plus the compacted schedule made it as if we played 82 regular season playoff games and 18 real playoff games. This year is going to be even tougher because we'll actually play 82 regular season playoff games plus the real playoff games if we make it! We need more bodies.

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10-31-2013, 01:13 AM
  #274
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10-31-2013, 07:43 AM
  #275
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This. Honestly, is there another team in the league who chooses to promote younger guys the way we do? If you are skilled in our organization, and young, you have no shot. Only guys who are big, useless, and who get in the way get a shot on our team. What kind of message does it send when we won't promote our best offensive talent, instead opting to build our team with 20 year olds with the talent of Jordan Nolan's, Kyle Clifford's, and Dwight Kings. It almost feels like the twilight zone. If your highly skilled, and young, sit and rot in the AHL, be given no opportunity, and watch your stock get lower and lower until your NHL dream fades away and you become "damaged goods" to the rest of the league. Has to be frustrating I would imagine. The only way to crack our lineup as a young guy is to be a 4th line hands of stone grinder, or a Defenseman. Seems twisted to me. Toffoli, Pearson, Vey, Kozun.. These guys would have been given shakes at almost every other organization, it seems, absent a few. Opportunity and a spark is what our club needs rights now. But nope, let's pay Stoll 4 million a year, and give Nolan, King, and Clifford multi year 1 way contracts. I understand we won the cup with these guys, but I would argue we could have plugged other players in their roles and had the same result, and we would be better off for it right now. We won because our top guys are really high end talent. We have arguably the best goaltender in the league, a top 5 centre, a top 5 dman, a top 5 winger, and multiple Olympians. That is why we kwn the cup, not because of our bottom 6.
Forget about Kozun, if other NHL teams wanted him they had a chance when after camp he was put on waivers. Toffoli, Pearson and Vey will get there chance.

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