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Vanek to NYI for Moulson, 2014 Conditional 1st, 2015 2nd (BUF retains 20% salary)

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Old
10-29-2013, 07:54 PM
  #676
scooch151
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Been out and about all day. Can someone explain the exact parameters of the protection of the pick?
As I understand it, it's one of three scenarios:

If NYI 2014 1st round pick is (---------), Buffalo gets (-------)
1.) Not in top 10 - 2014 1st rounder
2.) In top 10 and Islanders don't "defer" - 2014 1st rounder
3.) In top 10 and Islanders "defer"- 2015 1st rounder.

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10-29-2013, 08:01 PM
  #677
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I have said all along that one of Vanek or Pominville needed to be signed to help the young new core develop.

Maybe Moulson can be that guy. Lets just assume he will score at a 25+ goal pace in Buffalo, if they can get Moulson signed I think every hater would have to give Darcy credit, unless he gives Moulson way too much. I like when things get done.

Even if they get another 1st for Moulson, I would still be happy with it.

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10-29-2013, 08:24 PM
  #678
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The only way the pick protection screws us over is if they suck a lot this year, then all of a sudden become super good next year.

Considering the expected depth of top talent in the 2015 draft...15 in 2015 might be just as good if not better than 8 in 2014.

And this is all highly unlikely anyways. I don't think the Isles will finish that bad this year. Maybe 12-15 range.

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10-29-2013, 08:42 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
The only way the pick protection screws us over is if they suck a lot this year, then all of a sudden become super good next year.

Considering the expected depth of top talent in the 2015 draft...15 in 2015 might be just as good if not better than 8 in 2014.

And this is all highly unlikely anyways. I don't think the Isles will finish that bad this year. Maybe 12-15 range.
The Islanders defense is pretty terrible and Nabokov is not near as good as he once was, so nothing would surprise me. Probably not dropping to the bottom 10, but as I say it would not surprise me.

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10-29-2013, 09:25 PM
  #680
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That's unfortunate but it may be for the best if they defer to 2015. There are too many ifs at this point in time to say what they may do if they end up with a top 10 pick. There's even that slim chance they finish 11-14 but win the lottery in which case we will (certainly?) be getting their 2015 pick. Either way a first round pick has value associated with it (even the second rounder to a lesser extent) and since we weren't going to win the Cup this year it's better than losing Vanek to free agency and getting nothing in return.

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10-29-2013, 11:48 PM
  #681
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So Vanek looked the same as he has looked all year with JT. I've got this feeling he's going to be exposed as the one dimensional player he is in ny. If the forecheck suddenly dies and NYI possession stats plummet, look no further.

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10-30-2013, 12:43 AM
  #682
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
So Vanek looked the same as he has looked all year with JT. I've got this feeling he's going to be exposed as the one dimensional player he is in ny. If the forecheck suddenly dies and NYI possession stats plummet, look no further.
Vanek is an opportunistic scorer. Tavares is going to actually draw checking away from him, which means he'll be able to get to the dirty areas of the ice easier. There's no real reason he shouldn't pot 40 playing with NYI with a dynamic center like Tavares.

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10-30-2013, 12:49 AM
  #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooch151 View Post
As I understand it, it's one of three scenarios:

If NYI 2014 1st round pick is (---------), Buffalo gets (-------)
1.) Not in top 10 - 2014 1st rounder
2.) In top 10 and Islanders don't "defer" - 2014 1st rounder
3.) In top 10 and Islanders "defer"- 2015 1st rounder.
Thank you

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10-30-2013, 03:45 AM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
the scenario is highly unlikely... because with an elite center Vanek is going to score like 70 goals...

in seriousness... if the pick is a top 10, they will plan accordingly... they will have a plan in place, they will work all the "if" scnearios... including trades.

its not a big deal... the only hinderance is not being able to use it as a commodity in trade pre-draft.
I'm sure Regier could still move the pick, under the same condition, before the draft if he so chooses.

That's how the NBA works, anyway.

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10-30-2013, 06:30 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
So Vanek looked the same as he has looked all year with JT. I've got this feeling he's going to be exposed as the one dimensional player he is in ny. If the forecheck suddenly dies and NYI possession stats plummet, look no further.
Not sure what game you watched.

1. He played better defense last night than he has played for the Sabres all year.

2. He forechecked well, and won several puck battles along the boards.

3. He had a few good passes, including a no-look pass to Tavares for a beautiful set-up.

4. And he had a couple of decent chances to score.

None of it showed up on the stat sheet, but he played quite well last night.

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10-30-2013, 08:39 AM
  #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
So Vanek looked the same as he has looked all year with JT. I've got this feeling he's going to be exposed as the one dimensional player he is in ny. If the forecheck suddenly dies and NYI possession stats plummet, look no further.
You're using a 1 game sample set...

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10-30-2013, 09:28 AM
  #687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyJay View Post
You're using a 1 game sample set...
I'm using his time here more than anything...

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10-30-2013, 09:31 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I'm using his time here more than anything...
Then you're not assessing it very well. Besides, as I've already stated, he played a much better game last night than you are giving him credit for.

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10-30-2013, 10:09 AM
  #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Then you're not assessing it very well. Besides, as I've already stated, he played a much better game last night than you are giving him credit for.
Why? Because his line was so dominant in puck possession while he was here?

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10-30-2013, 10:10 AM
  #690
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Why? Because his line was so dominant in puck possession while he was here?
Did you read anything I wrote a couple posts ago? You can't focus on just puck possession to determine Vanek's value. That's absurd.

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10-30-2013, 10:12 AM
  #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Did you read anything I wrote a couple posts ago?
I'm not sure what it has to do with what I'm saying.

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10-30-2013, 10:14 AM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Did you read anything I wrote a couple posts ago? You can't focus on just puck possession to determine Vanek's value. That's absurd.
If Hodgson and Ennis get better, and JT gets worse, you can't use that to determine his value?

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10-30-2013, 10:17 AM
  #693
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
If Hodgson and Vanek get better, and JT gets worse, you can't use that to determine his value?
Not sure what you're trying to say there.

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10-30-2013, 10:22 AM
  #694
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I saw this brought up, but never saw a clear answer, and perhaps we won't know till later, but if the Islanders do finish with a top 10 pick, and choose to defer to the 2015 draft, does the 2nd Round Pick swap years too?

IE. 2015 1st and 2014 2nd, or does the 2nd stay in 2015 and we'd potentially have the Islanders top two picks in 2015?

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10-30-2013, 10:22 AM
  #695
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Not sure what you're trying to say there.
I meant to say Ennis, not Vanek.

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10-30-2013, 10:30 AM
  #696
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Originally Posted by BowieSabresFan View Post
Then you're not assessing it very well. Besides, as I've already stated, he played a much better game last night than you are giving him credit for.
I thought he was neither as bad as Stokes indicated nor as good as you indicated. Just average. And that's not good enough for the Isles.

But, of course, just one game.

EDIT: Just saw Vanek had the worst Corsi and worst Corsi Relative of any Isles forward last night at 5-on-5. You show them how we do it over here, Tom!

EDIT 2: At least Capuano understands what Vanek is:

Offensive Zone Starts: 10
Defensive Zone Starts: 1

A coach that seems to understand usage, imagine that.


Last edited by Zip15: 10-30-2013 at 10:36 AM.
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10-30-2013, 10:41 AM
  #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I thought he was neither as bad as Stokes indicated nor as good as you indicated. Just average. And that's not good enough for the Isles.

But, of course, just one game.

EDIT: Just saw Vanek had the worst Corsi and worst Corsi Relative of any Isles forward last night at 5-on-5. You show them how we do it over here, Tom!

EDIT 2: At least Capuano understands what Vanek is:

Offensive Zone Starts: 10
Defensive Zone Starts: 1

A coach that seems to understand usage, imagine that.
Van needs to find some engagement and raise his effort. This is an opportunity to add cash to his next deal.

As for Capuano.... I think a Capuchin could figure out how to use players better than Rolston could at this point. I have lost all faith in his ability as an NHL bench boss.

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10-30-2013, 10:56 AM
  #698
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on the draft floor, they have up until their pick to notify the league what they are doing
Do we know that for certain?

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10-30-2013, 11:30 AM
  #699
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Van needs to find some engagement and raise his effort. This is an opportunity to add cash to his next deal.

As for Capuano.... I think a Capuchin could figure out how to use players better than Rolston could at this point. I have lost all faith in his ability as an NHL bench boss.
Vanek is the type of player others have to adjust to. He is kind of like a post up man in the modern NBA. Rare. Vanek hasnt been good in transition for years IMO. He is the type you have to set up an offense, slow it down and feed the puck around the net.

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10-30-2013, 11:49 AM
  #700
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Vanek is the type of player others have to adjust to. He is kind of like a post up man in the modern NBA. Rare. Vanek hasnt been good in transition for years IMO. He is the type you have to set up an offense, slow it down and feed the puck around the net.
Except there are a ton of players who are dangerous around the net and would be played defensively the exact same way as Vanek

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