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Vanek to NYI for Moulson, 2014 Conditional 1st, 2015 2nd (BUF retains 20% salary)

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10-31-2013, 08:43 PM
  #751
Rob Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
I don't think that's really an issue.

If the pick is outside the top 10, then there is no deferring and the Sabres will have the pick and are free to trade up.

If it is a top 10 pick, the Sabres likely wouldn't need to trade up, having a pick earlier in the round anyways. Sure, maybe you could try and slide up 1 or 2 picks, but if there's a guy you really want, you grab him with that earlier pick.

And if they defer, well then trading up is irrelevant for this draft.
Fair enough, but it does limit flexibility if the pick is #9 and you want to trade up and get, say, the Deutschland Dangler if he's dangling at #7.

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10-31-2013, 08:50 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Fair enough, but it does limit flexibility if the pick is #9 and you want to trade up and get, say, the Deutschland Dangler if he's dangling at #7.
Yeah kenfury brought that up as a possibility.

I guess considering teams very rarely trade down in the top 10...the stars would all have to align right in terms of where the picks were, who was on the board, and who would be willing to trade down...the likelihood is fairly low. Usually teams that trade top 10 picks are doing so for established talent (Schneider to NJ, Carter to CBJ). The only real example I can think of is when the Isles traded down to grab Bailey. So while it's nice to think we could trade up, it requires a dancing partner, and it's pretty rare to find one.

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10-31-2013, 08:50 PM
  #753
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I would rather have pick #11 this year (or 8 or 9 and Isles decide not to defer just in case they do have a lottery pick next year for McDavid) then to have to wait a whole year to see the prime piece of the Vanek trade come to fruition. And if the Isles do finish in the lottery this year they would probably think that it could also happen next year and won't take the small chance of them somehow winning the lottery and getting McDavid. Either way, if the Isles pick can be #11 or #12 ill be ecstatic. Yeah the 2014 draft is a lot less deep/talented then 2013 was but this is by no means a weak draft. There will still be 1st liners/top pairing dmen prospects available all throughout the first 15 picks IMO.

Darcy has the potential to own 1/6th of the entire 1st round.... (Our 1st, the Isles, and then 1sts for Miller, Ott and Moulson). If we ended up with 5 1sts in this draft that would be incredible, especially since we can just use our gigantic supply of 2nd round picks to move up from those late 1sts...

Say we do get the 3 1sts for MM, Miller and Ott and the 3 are in the 22-30 range...considering we were able to move from 21 to 14 in 2012 with just a single mid 2nd, I could see Darcy being able to move 3 late 1sts paired with MIN, LAs and our 2nd (which will be #31, practically another 1st round pick) and turn them into 3 1sts in the mid teens. Drafting 5 times in the first 20 picks this year and then a top 3 pick in 2015 will mean our rebuild can essentially be done by the start of 15-16.

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10-31-2013, 09:28 PM
  #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
I don't think that's really an issue.

If the pick is outside the top 10, then there is no deferring and the Sabres will have the pick and are free to trade up.

If it is a top 10 pick, the Sabres likely wouldn't need to trade up, having a pick earlier in the round anyways. Sure, maybe you could try and slide up 1 or 2 picks, but if there's a guy you really want, you grab him with that earlier pick.

And if they defer, well then trading up is irrelevant for this draft.
What I think with Ott , Moulson, Stafford, and Miller trades they can end up with 3 1st round picks in each of the next 2 drafts.

Ott and Moulson both would bring back 1sts.
Stafford + 2nd = playoff team 1st
Miller could yield a condition 1st based on a team resigning him or their advancement.

They would get another if they were to move Ehrhoff.

They as of now have 3 2nds in each.

If the NYI 1st was say 14 buffalo can do:

14 + their 2nd for 8-10....then move their other 2nds and move up 2-3 spots to 5-7.

They are going to move up the 1sts with the 2nds

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10-31-2013, 09:33 PM
  #755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
I would rather have pick #11 this year (or 8 or 9 and Isles decide not to defer just in case they do have a lottery pick next year for McDavid) then to have to wait a whole year to see the prime piece of the Vanek trade come to fruition. And if the Isles do finish in the lottery this year they would probably think that it could also happen next year and won't take the small chance of them somehow winning the lottery and getting McDavid. Either way, if the Isles pick can be #11 or #12 ill be ecstatic. Yeah the 2014 draft is a lot less deep/talented then 2013 was but this is by no means a weak draft. There will still be 1st liners/top pairing dmen prospects available all throughout the first 15 picks IMO.

Darcy has the potential to own 1/6th of the entire 1st round.... (Our 1st, the Isles, and then 1sts for Miller, Ott and Moulson). If we ended up with 5 1sts in this draft that would be incredible, especially since we can just use our gigantic supply of 2nd round picks to move up from those late 1sts...

Say we do get the 3 1sts for MM, Miller and Ott and the 3 are in the 22-30 range...considering we were able to move from 21 to 14 in 2012 with just a single mid 2nd, I could see Darcy being able to move 3 late 1sts paired with MIN, LAs and our 2nd (which will be #31, practically another 1st round pick) and turn them into 3 1sts in the mid teens. Drafting 5 times in the first 20 picks this year and then a top 3 pick in 2015 will mean our rebuild can essentially be done by the start of 15-16.
Darcy will try to get 3 1sts in each of the next 2 drafts instead of getting a ton in one year.

He likely sets up his next deal where the 1st is based on what happens w/Isles pick. If Isles pick is 2014 then that pick is 2015.

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11-01-2013, 10:06 AM
  #756
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@NHLPA
With @MMoulson & @T_Vanek26 trading places, teammates from both sides weigh-in on the two impact players: http://www.nhlpa.com/news/trading-places

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11-01-2013, 11:18 AM
  #757
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Quote:
Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch 21m

Thomas Vanek says he and Sabres never discussed a new deal. No offer was made. #NHL #Isles #Sabres
https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/stat...04750678769665

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11-01-2013, 12:35 PM
  #758
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...id=DL|NHL|home

There are 25 players who have scored 30 goals in a season at least three times since the start of the 2006-07 season.

Not counting 2012-13, when only Alex Ovechkin scored at least 30 goals, this group of players all scored at least 30 three times in a six-season span. Six of those players have been traded in the past 15 months, including two who moved in the same deal Tuesday when the New York Islanders sent Matt Moulson and two draft picks to the Buffalo Sabres for Thomas Vanek.

Among deals where proven offensive commodities switched sides, it is the biggest trade since Marian Hossa went to the Atlanta Thrashers from the Ottawa Senators for Dany Heatley in 2005. Rick Nash and Marian Gaborik essentially were traded for each other (eventually), but that doesn't count.

There has been plenty of debate about the Moulson-Vanek transaction, and it's likely going to continue for years to come. Let's be clear though: The Islanders are better in 2013-14 because of this trade, but this deal was an undeniable long-term victory for the rebuilding project in Buffalo.

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11-01-2013, 12:37 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
local media is a joke

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11-01-2013, 12:45 PM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
local media is a joke
‏@SunGarrioch

Vanek on RPT BUF would make him NHL's top paid."I never once got a contract offer from them. That story, Im not sure where it came from.

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11-01-2013, 12:56 PM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
local media is a joke
The report (from TBN) never stated an offer was made.

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11-01-2013, 01:16 PM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
The report (from TBN) never stated an offer was made.
Right, the report said that they were willing to make him the highest paid, not that he turned down an offer that would have made him the highest paid.

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11-01-2013, 01:19 PM
  #763
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The report (from TBN) never stated an offer was made.
couch your language and you can get away with anything, it's clear that Vanek thinks it's full of ****

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11-01-2013, 01:22 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
couch your language and you can get away with anything, it's clear that Vanek thinks it's full of ****
Or he needs to sit down and talk with his agent.


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11-01-2013, 01:25 PM
  #765
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or the source was privy to internal deliberations that (thankfully) never went anywhere

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11-01-2013, 01:26 PM
  #766
Rob Paxon
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Originally Posted by Dixon Ward View Post
or the source was privy to internal deliberations that (thankfully) never went anywhere
That would mean they weren't actually prepared to do it, then.

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11-01-2013, 01:31 PM
  #767
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maybe they decided they were willing to go to $X for X years if negotiations got underway? who knows? speculation either way.

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11-01-2013, 01:33 PM
  #768
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Or he needs to sit down and talk with his agent.

hahaha I'm picturing Vanek flipping out with dollar signs cracking up in his eyes

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11-01-2013, 01:35 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Bucky Gleason View Post
hahaha I'm picturing Vanek flipping out with dollar signs cracking up in his eyes
And then his agent saying, " But Tom, you said you were out of here and ready to sign in Minnesota????"


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11-01-2013, 01:42 PM
  #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
That would mean they weren't actually prepared to do it, then.
Preparing to do something and actually doing it are completely different things, though. If I get candles out in preparation of a power outage and the power never goes out, it doesn't mean I wasn't actually prepared to use the candles.

They probably saw signing him as an option of last resort if they couldn't trade him for some reason (injury at the deadline?) and did not want to get crucified for losing another captain to free agency.

If they signed him during the season and traded him, could they retain salary for the 2014-2015 deal? Probably not, but if so, that'd be a trade bargaining chip if the receiving team worried about him fleeing at the end of the year.

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11-01-2013, 01:50 PM
  #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybresabre View Post
Preparing to do something and actually doing it are completely different things, though. If I get candles out in preparation of a power outage and the power never goes out, it doesn't mean I wasn't actually prepared to use the candles.

They probably saw signing him as an option of last resort if they couldn't trade him for some reason (injury at the deadline?) and did not want to get crucified for losing another captain to free agency.

If they signed him during the season and traded him, could they retain salary for the 2014-2015 deal? Probably not, but if so, that'd be a trade bargaining chip if the receiving team worried about him fleeing at the end of the year.
It's pretty clear that the report's sole implication was that the Sabres were prepared to make Vanek the highest-paid player if he were amenable to staying. That would either mean they made such an offer or were so certain he wouldn't stay even with such an offer that they didn't bother making it (which seems pretty unlikely). Let's face it, it's bad reporting, which is the standard of sports journalism and is rampant locally. Either the reporter is fundamentally clueless or he intentionally obscured what he was told to make it seem more damning or sensational.

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11-01-2013, 01:56 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
It's pretty clear that the report's sole implication was that the Sabres were prepared to make Vanek the highest-paid player if he were amenable to staying. That would either mean they made such an offer or were so certain he wouldn't stay even with such an offer that they didn't bother making it (which seems pretty unlikely). Let's face it, it's bad reporting, which is the standard of sports journalism and is rampant locally. Either the reporter is fundamentally clueless or he intentionally obscured what he was told to make it seem more damning or sensational.
That is also one of the problems with trying to get your point across on Twitter.

It's interesting that this never even made it into a blog post on TBN.com....

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11-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by WhoIsJimBob View Post
That is also one of the problems with trying to get your point across on Twitter.

It's interesting that this never even made it into a blog post on TBN.com....
Agreed on that.

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11-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
I would rather have pick #11 this year (or 8 or 9 and Isles decide not to defer just in case they do have a lottery pick next year for McDavid) then to have to wait a whole year to see the prime piece of the Vanek trade come to fruition. And if the Isles do finish in the lottery this year they would probably think that it could also happen next year and won't take the small chance of them somehow winning the lottery and getting McDavid. Either way, if the Isles pick can be #11 or #12 ill be ecstatic. Yeah the 2014 draft is a lot less deep/talented then 2013 was but this is by no means a weak draft. There will still be 1st liners/top pairing dmen prospects available all throughout the first 15 picks IMO.

Darcy has the potential to own 1/6th of the entire 1st round.... (Our 1st, the Isles, and then 1sts for Miller, Ott and Moulson). If we ended up with 5 1sts in this draft that would be incredible, especially since we can just use our gigantic supply of 2nd round picks to move up from those late 1sts...

Say we do get the 3 1sts for MM, Miller and Ott and the 3 are in the 22-30 range...considering we were able to move from 21 to 14 in 2012 with just a single mid 2nd, I could see Darcy being able to move 3 late 1sts paired with MIN, LAs and our 2nd (which will be #31, practically another 1st round pick) and turn them into 3 1sts in the mid teens. Drafting 5 times in the first 20 picks this year and then a top 3 pick in 2015 will mean our rebuild can essentially be done by the start of 15-16.
That's just poor thinking. Darcy is best off spreading the picks over the two years. In 1999 the NY I had 4 first round picks, 3 top 10 picks. That turned out to be Connolly, Pyatt, Mezei, and Kudroc. You can have top picks in a draft, it just needs to be the right draft.

That is why you diversify picks when stock piling.

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11-01-2013, 02:44 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by missingmika View Post
That's just poor thinking. Darcy is best off spreading the picks over the two years. In 1999 the NY I had 4 first round picks, 3 top 10 picks. That turned out to be Connolly, Pyatt, Mezei, and Kudroc. You can have top picks in a draft, it just needs to be the right draft.

That is why you diversify picks when stock piling.
I disagree for a couple reasons: you can't develop 60 kids, not with only one farm team and a handful of rookie spots at a time on the big club. With our pipeline being as deep as it is right now (think about that, we're talking about adding 8 more first or second rounders to this pipeline), we'd be better served by having higher quality prospects than quantity. Our deep stable of second rounders also makes more prospects of that level redundant. Yes, you marginally increase your chances that one of them will turn into a sleeper star, but at the cost of not being able to fit others of them onto your farm team to find out.

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