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Old
11-13-2013, 08:47 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Why even make a trade though? They're finally starting to show some signs of life. Why not just let it ride and see what this group is really capable of? I venture to guess it's closer to what we saw in 2011-2012 versus 2012-2013. The only difference is that this team now seems committed to playing defense and protecting their goalie.
I had said depending on how the season goes. Regardless, the defense could use on infusion of youth, skating, and puck moving and Alt is realistically the only prospect that could be ready next year. The UFA class is not particularly deep with Girardi Phanuef and Markov at the top and more than likely will be signed by their current clubs. So unless the flyers plan to squeeze another year at of Timonen, they will need a top 4 defenseman next season.

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11-13-2013, 08:57 AM
  #227
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Schenn is solid defensively only thing that's holding him back is his offensive game he thinks too much before making passes , he just needs to learn a little bit from Streit and Timonen

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11-13-2013, 11:22 AM
  #228
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Schenn is solid defensively only thing that's holding him back is his offensive game he thinks too much before making passes , he just needs to learn a little bit from Streit and Timonen
That's not the only thing holding him back. He is solid in his positional defense, he plays physical, he will battle with guys rarely giving up on a play. But there are other problems with his game in the defensive zone. His speed and foot work leave him vulnerable to speedy/shifty players and when the play shift he's slightly slower to get into the new defensive position required. Maybe his biggest problem is his play WITH the puck. He'll make a good defensive play and end up with the puck. Some times he'll fumble it, or his substandard decision making with the puck will come into play and rather than doing the simple chip out he'll try and make a pass and have it get picked off, or just throw it to a dangerous area, etc. If he cleaned up those areas then he could be a terrific defensive defenseman, and I'd be fine with that but it's also a lot easier said than done.

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11-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #229
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He blocks shots, which is good, but that's about his only redeeming quality. He hits like a bulldozer, which is fun to watch but ultimately it really doesn't mean anything.

I really wouldn't mind if the Flyers cut bait with him. He's very limited in what he can do and quite frankly, despite people's insistence that he's only 24 and and still has time to develop, he simply doesn't have the puck skills and skating to be anything worth waiting for or anything the organization will look back at and say ''Damn, shoulda never let him go''.

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11-13-2013, 12:25 PM
  #230
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[QUOTE=SCOREacek;74320455 he simply doesn't have the puck skills and skating to be anything worth waiting for or anything the organization will look back at and say ''Damn, shoulda never let him go''.[/QUOTE]

It stinks when you have to come to the realization that you got the short end of the stick possibly in a transaction. Reminds me of card trading where someone pulls a fast one on you and gets the better player card and then you hold onto the inferior one longer than you should because you want to have something..anything to show for it all...

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11-13-2013, 04:13 PM
  #231
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It stinks when you have to come to the realization that you got the short end of the stick possibly in a transaction. Reminds me of card trading where someone pulls a fast one on you and gets the better player card and then you hold onto the inferior one longer than you should because you want to have something..anything to show for it all...


I realized that before the trade was made.

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11-13-2013, 04:37 PM
  #232
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His last game looked kinda weak.

One wonders if his confidence has been shot to hell.

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11-13-2013, 04:58 PM
  #233
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His last game looked kinda weak.

One wonders if his confidence has been shot to hell.
Last night he looked indecisive. Almost trying too hard to make a big play instead of the simple play. I can't see how his confidence hasn't been shaken. He looked like he turned a corner last season and then gets yanked again.

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11-13-2013, 05:07 PM
  #234
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I am assuming the same people who want to trade Schenn because of his lack of foot speed or say he only blocks shots aren't the same people that are in love with Grossmann.

How fast is Joe Girardi or Mark Giordano?

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11-13-2013, 05:40 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post

How fast is Joe Girardi or Mark Giordano?
on skates? joe's somewhere between riley cote and chris therien if that helps give you some perspective...

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11-13-2013, 05:48 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I am assuming the same people who want to trade Schenn because of his lack of foot speed or say he only blocks shots aren't the same people that are in love with Grossmann.

How fast is Joe Girardi or Mark Giordano?
I believe you're right. lack of foot speed can be (mostly) compensated for with good positioning and stickwork. the difference between schenn and grossmann goes beyond what schenn does without the puck imo. he handles the puck like a live grenade when he's given little time to think about what to do with it. that to me is a bigger problem... the lack of "instinct" and reaction time

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11-13-2013, 05:57 PM
  #237
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I believe you're right. lack of foot speed can be (mostly) compensated for with good positioning and stickwork. the difference between schenn and grossmann goes beyond what schenn does without the puck imo. he handles the puck like a live grenade when he's given little time to think about what to do with it. that to me is a bigger problem... the lack of "instinct" and reaction time
So does Grossmann.

Schenn is a monster when it comes to peripheral stats like hits and blocks. Grossmann is the same except he's more blocking shots oriented then anything. They are both slow with little offensive ability and make boneheaded passes when trying to leave the zone on occasion.

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11-13-2013, 05:59 PM
  #238
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I'm not sure if anyone ever thought Luke Schenn had offensive upside, at least not since the trade. He's a defensive guy who hits and blocks shots. That's all he is and will ever be. Defensive D in general have a lot less value then two-way one or even offensively oriented ones to begin with.

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11-13-2013, 06:17 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
I am assuming the same people who want to trade Schenn because of his lack of foot speed or say he only blocks shots aren't the same people that are in love with Grossmann.

How fast is Joe Girardi or Mark Giordano?
You mean Dan Girardi. Joe is a former baseball player and now manager of the Yankees...

Anyhow, Dan is not fast himself but he's faster than Luke with both his skating and his decision making. Giordano? Don't even know why you brought him up. He can actually move the puck up ice, play on the PP,PK, and is a good skater. He's nothing like Schenn.

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11-16-2013, 05:32 AM
  #240
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Well, luke was outstanding last night (maybe not in the 3rd, but the entire team was worn out). I really hope him being scratched got through to him and he can be the player everyone thought he was at the draft.

Flyers need to be patient with him even when he struggles, he is still young.

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11-16-2013, 05:38 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
So does Grossmann.

Schenn is a monster when it comes to peripheral stats like hits and blocks. Grossmann is the same except he's more blocking shots oriented then anything. They are both slow with little offensive ability and make boneheaded passes when trying to leave the zone on occasion.
Disagree about Grossmann. Grossmann knows exactly what he is and doesn't try to do too much. He typically chips it out or makes the simple play. That is the big difference between him and Schenn. Schenn hasn't realized his talent is nothing more than a Grossmann and tries to do things of a more skilled defender and it usually backfires. He shouldn't be handling the puck or making tough passes of a more skilled player. When he plays like Grossmann, Schenn can be very effective.

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11-16-2013, 11:40 AM
  #242
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Well, luke was outstanding last night (maybe not in the 3rd, but the entire team was worn out). I really hope him being scratched got through to him and he can be the player everyone thought he was at the draft.

Flyers need to be patient with him even when he struggles, he is still young.
Agreed. I was worried last night that winnipeg's skating would really expose Schenn's foot speed but I was dead wrong. He looked great.

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11-16-2013, 11:55 AM
  #243
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I think there are people out there who want Schenn to suck so they can feel some sort of gratification about being right about him being useless.

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11-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
I think there are people out there who want Schenn to suck so they can feel some sort of gratification about being right about him being useless.
and to cry about trading JVR

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11-16-2013, 12:59 PM
  #245
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I think there are people out there who want Schenn to suck so they can feel some sort of gratification about being right about him being useless.
Idk about that. If you're a fan of a team, you should want every player on that team to do well.

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11-16-2013, 01:01 PM
  #246
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Idk about that. If you're a fan of a team, you should want every player on that team to do well.
I agree, but some people... I just don't know.

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11-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #247
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You mean Dan Girardi. Joe is a former baseball player and now manager of the Yankees...

Anyhow, Dan is not fast himself but he's faster than Luke with both his skating and his decision making. Giordano? Don't even know why you brought him up. He can actually move the puck up ice, play on the PP,PK, and is a good skater. He's nothing like Schenn.
Yeah, Dan.

Girardi is 30/31 y/o. Six or seven years ago Girardi was a bottom pairing d man. He is decisive and is quick making decisions due to experience.

Giordano isn't a great comparison but he wasn't even in the league 3-4 years ago.

Bottomline is the guy will never be fast but there is no reason to believe he won't make faster decision with the puck through experience.

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11-16-2013, 02:06 PM
  #248
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I agree, but some people... I just don't know.
I do, some people won't take into consideration his age, or the fact that he's been good here in philly more often then he's been bad. They also like to blow his mediocre performances out of proportion and say he deserves to be in the minors. Or hold him to a higher standard cause he was acquired in the JVR trade/was a high draft pick himself.

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11-16-2013, 05:41 PM
  #249
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That's not the only thing holding him back. He is solid in his positional defense, he plays physical, he will battle with guys rarely giving up on a play. But there are other problems with his game in the defensive zone. His speed and foot work leave him vulnerable to speedy/shifty players and when the play shift he's slightly slower to get into the new defensive position required. Maybe his biggest problem is his play WITH the puck. He'll make a good defensive play and end up with the puck. Some times he'll fumble it, or his substandard decision making with the puck will come into play and rather than doing the simple chip out he'll try and make a pass and have it get picked off, or just throw it to a dangerous area, etc. If he cleaned up those areas then he could be a terrific defensive defenseman, and I'd be fine with that but it's also a lot easier said than done.
Yep. Schenn is basically my favorite defenseemen based off his potential. When he is hitting i love it. Dude just needs to handle the puck better and quit thinking. I think he is smarter then Brayden but Brayden is quicker to move the puck....if that makes any sense at all. I wish he was just a tad faster overall.

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11-16-2013, 08:14 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Idk about that. If you're a fan of a team, you should want every player on that team to do well.
Well, not really. Being a fan of a team only means you want the team to do well. If they can manage that, even though some player on that team sucks, then then you're not really any less of a fan for wanting him to suck. Now you're probably going to disagree with that on principle first and then go on to say, oh, well, but if every player does well, then the team is obviously better off. Well, even that might not be true. If you have a coach favouring a certain player in a certain situation, and you think that another player would be better suited there, then wishing that first guy to suck to the extent of the coach finally seeing he's not the man for the job and substituting in a different player might provide better results.

It's the principle I mainly disagree with, though. Wanting a player on your favourite team to suck (and wishing him traded or whatever) is perfectly legit in my book. I don't want Schenn to suck, though

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